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09-16-2007, 01:02 PM | #1 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69461
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: North Miami Beach
Vehicle:2004 WRB/Sti 11.41 @ 123mph |
Cyl-4 Blown Yet again
So last night I was driving on the Freeway, and I started to play with a M5 and we got into a little race there on the freeway (dont condone Street Racing)
I pulled off the freeway on the exit I was going to take, and I smelt somthing a LiL funny.. kept driving down the road and now It actually smoked pretty bad.. the car still hauls ass though. went home and Did a Compression test i got Cyl1 135 Cyl2 137 Cyl3 135 and Cyl4 110 My block is far from stock I have Cosworth rods, Mahle Coated pistions, Cosworth race bearings Car and many low 11 second passes its just wierd it would let go on the freeway. the tune is super safe.. I also have Meth and water injection on top of that for extra protection. Does anyone know out there what type of motor or one built by someone who wont blow up on the freeway?
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09-16-2007, 02:08 PM | #2 |
Citizen Mick
Member#: 27646
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:2003 Sleeved 2.5 Oil Dry Sump Goodness |
You need to do a leakdown test to pin point the issue before you go blaming the block.
You also may want to concider using a different coolant in future. I speculate that you ended up with heat spots and warped something, cylinder of head wise. Look for Evans coolant (non water based) I would also suggest you have your injectors cleaned and flow tested. It's possible you had one lean cylinder. Last edited by mick_the_ginge; 09-16-2007 at 08:16 PM. Reason: typos |
09-16-2007, 04:39 PM | #3 |
Scooby Specialist
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Vehicle:2003 WRX, '06 Armada 05 Vette & 05 STi (sold) |
Get better pistons.
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09-16-2007, 04:55 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 60142
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bend, OR
Vehicle:2011 WRX Grey |
As Mick and others have seen first hand, if a ring land goes south it might not show symptoms right away, provided the piston stays together. There've been a couple on here that were apparently driven for quite a long time with a broken piston - the only symptoms were a slight increase in oil usage and some light exhaust smoking, and other than that the motors ran pretty well. It wasn't until they were talked into doing a leakdown test [which led to a teardown] that they finally discovered where the oil was going.
Last edited by flycaster; 09-16-2007 at 05:07 PM. |
09-16-2007, 04:58 PM | #5 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bend, OR
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09-16-2007, 06:30 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69461
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
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Location: North Miami Beach
Vehicle:2004 WRB/Sti 11.41 @ 123mph |
Hey guy thanks a bunch for the information... Some other things i might add.. under just idle Its not to bad with the smoke.. Its bad once i press on the gas and rev to like 2500-3000 it smokes decent.. Also I have an element tuning catch can.. and its actually empty inside there.. one other thing, it smokes out of the main block vent and the Oil fill tube on start up, Car still runs strong Ac works good... I am doing a Cyl Leakdown tomorrow, I believe i`ll have leaking past the rings is my guess.. Its funny I had no knock.. everything seemed normal tell i pulled off the freeway and drove like 2 miles down and it started to smoke. I Run my car very rich I just moved from AZ to FL so i got better 93 oct now vs the 91 i was using in AZ.. So I guess I`ll be doing a few test tomorrow and the pulling the block based on my findings..
another thing Cyl number 1 Spark plug was Greyish white, Cyl2-3 looked blackish grey I think they are running rich, Number 4 had oil and carbon on it actually looked not so good |
09-16-2007, 08:31 PM | #7 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 64673
Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:1990 Legacy wagon goes 12.387 @ 116.5 |
Busted ringland....... Probably just cracked, but if you keep boosting, its going to start melting away....
Stop now, pull the motor, and your bore "should" be fine. But if you keep boosting, the rings will start to deform and cut into the cylinder wall. |
09-16-2007, 09:03 PM | #8 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 48990
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Sweetwater Tennessee
Vehicle:98 Impreza RS RBP |
sounds like your "super safe" tune was off. It was just a matter of time when the motor finally let go. Its not parts that need to be replaced, its the tune.
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09-16-2007, 09:56 PM | #9 | |
Citizen Mick
Member#: 27646
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Portland, Oregon
Vehicle:2003 Sleeved 2.5 Oil Dry Sump Goodness |
Quote:
I feel for STi_Guy04 as I know too well what it's like to loose an engine but the key is to identify what actually failed and fix it for the next time. Yes, a bad tune can break engines but it's unlikely that a car that runs multiple 11 second passes has a bad tune. Maybe the water/meth injection failed? It's good that STi_Guy04 spotted the issue now before the whole engine lets go. This will reduce the rebuild cost. |
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09-16-2007, 10:41 PM | #10 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 39149
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Mahle has 2618s are available.
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09-17-2007, 01:00 AM | #11 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69461
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: North Miami Beach
Vehicle:2004 WRB/Sti 11.41 @ 123mph |
Quote:
For the tune Not to much to say there the car was damn fast on pump and race. I was running 22-23psi when it happend. with methanol/h2o Funny thing is i run a really rich tune on pump gas and race anyway.. about 10.8-10.7 afr I installed my meth/h20 kit after my tune so i never tuned or leaned out my afr for the extra power.. I just squirt the stuff in to be safe? Bad Idea?? But Yeah I only drove like 15mile on the car after in failed me Well cool thing is All the labor is free. I do all the work myself so only cost is parts. I have a second car. and I`ll never do this freeway racing again haha I`ll have the block out by then end of this week, and torn down over the weekend I`ll keep you all posted.. My Guess Is broken Ringlands on #4 cyl Oh and what do you all mean by the number when your talking about the mahle pistions? I understand that has something to do with the type of metals used and strength and expansion rates of the pistion? but what do you look for, For building our boxer motors.. does anyone have any recommendations of Really high quality pistions.. I think i am going to step up the CR ratio to about 9.0 or 9.5 always wanted to try that out. oh and thanks again for the info!!! |
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09-17-2007, 01:20 AM | #12 |
Scooby Guru
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: portland
Vehicle:1990 Legacy wagon goes 12.387 @ 116.5 |
The higher expansion pistons are "plasticy" meaning they can take a beating,but at warm up are small and need time to become stocke size so they quit knocking. The great news is they can take huge amounts of abuse and not shatter like the stock pistons ore stock Mahles.
I am buying Wisecos next engine faluire. |
09-17-2007, 04:26 AM | #13 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 9960
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: in bed...
Vehicle:2002 Impreza WRX WRBlue Perl |
What is your entire modlist?
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09-17-2007, 11:30 AM | #14 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 60142
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Bend, OR
Vehicle:2011 WRX Grey |
Quote:
As for your injection question, light water injection only is fine without a retune, but shooting in extra fuel (ie, water/meth mix) without a retune is not the best idea. I've heard several tuners (Azscoobie among them) mention problems including "rich detonation" here, but frankly that is not something I'm qualified to talk about. Perhaps Mick or other tuners can chime in... |
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09-17-2007, 06:45 PM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69461
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: North Miami Beach
Vehicle:2004 WRB/Sti 11.41 @ 123mph |
Peakboost 35r .82 Turbo kit
Pwr Radiator Cooler thermostat Kingpin Massive FMIC 44mm EWG PE-850cc inj Walbro 255lph Perrin fuel rails HKS bov Element tuning catch can Element Hydra Hydra Mist 3.0 exhaust no cats Cosworth Rods Cosworth bearings I`am sure i am missing things but thats most of the important stuff Mahle Pistions... Stock Heads How do you guys think about Total Seal Rings? and running like 9.5:1 compression |
09-17-2007, 06:48 PM | #16 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Apr 2004
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4032 Mahle's, huh? If you broke one, I think that makes 5 so far. Let us know.
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09-17-2007, 06:52 PM | #17 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69461
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: North Miami Beach
Vehicle:2004 WRB/Sti 11.41 @ 123mph |
Yeah I`am 98.7***37; sure i broke some ring lands on number 4 cylinder.. I`ll for sure let you know with some pics..
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09-17-2007, 07:42 PM | #18 |
Former Vendor
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Location: Lakewood, NJ
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09-18-2007, 10:49 PM | #19 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 25768
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
RMIC
Location: CO springs
Vehicle:2003 XONA 9569S 40++ 2.3 slobaru |
Hey shawn give me a call I was wondering what happend to you. sorry to hear about the engine. get rid of the Mahle and get some weiscos at 9.0:1 they seat alot better and will spool that 35r quite a bit faster.
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09-19-2007, 12:16 AM | #20 |
Scooby Specialist
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spool it faster because of compression ratio?? I am pretty sure the 4032 mahles are about as light of a piston as you can get.
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09-19-2007, 12:26 AM | #21 |
Scooby Newbie
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Vehicle:2012 Legacy |
idk if this is right at all as i am still in the learning process but have you checked to see if it could have been a head gasket? with coolant in the oil or low coolant?
also what color was the smoke? |
09-19-2007, 12:46 AM | #22 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 69461
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
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Location: North Miami Beach
Vehicle:2004 WRB/Sti 11.41 @ 123mph |
Quote:
But yeah for the motor its sucks.. got into a lengthy Freeway battle with an M5 Did very well for a 4-bannger turbo But I guess motor got tired of that crap lol It was the same deal we where doing on the way home from the dyno but i guess another min or 2 of WOT.. It smoked a lil more than a lil bit at idle, and when you press on the gas like very her and let go she smokes a decent amount! same deal as like last time.. smokes through the oil fill tube and Main block vent. Yeah I`ll be changing something up for sure man... The motor had no reason to let go man!! I dunno what the deal was but for sure she`ll come back stronger than ever.. thinking of either 9.0-9.5 compression, and some head work I dunno let me know what you think or recommendations... |
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09-19-2007, 01:17 AM | #23 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 25768
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
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Vehicle:2003 XONA 9569S 40++ 2.3 slobaru |
It has more to do with the amount of compression than the weight of the piston. the more air you can compress with each stroke the more power you can make down low.
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09-19-2007, 03:51 AM | #24 | ||
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Vehicle:2002 Impreza WRX |
Quote:
You had a safe tune for daily driving --- it was not a safe tune for extended time at WOT in 5th. The car is not under load long enough at the drag strip for it to be a problem. Quote:
Larry |
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09-19-2007, 11:21 AM | #25 |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Oct 2002
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Vehicle:2003 XONA 9569S 40++ 2.3 slobaru |
he is using the hydra and hydra mist. it will moniter detonation and pull timing throughout the rpm band and resort to another safe map if needed. he would have to have a bad knock sensor to have this problem.
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