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Old 11-02-2007, 08:32 PM   #1
eurospek
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Default Which struts are best for a 05 WRX Wagon with STi Pink wagon springs?

Which struts are best for a 05 WRX Wagon with STi Pink wagon springs that I solely use as a daily driver for the time being. What are my choices in wagon specific struts, and also are there any struts that simply bolt in without the use of the spacer (washer) mod? Thanks for the help and suggestions.
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Old 11-02-2007, 09:55 PM   #2
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You have 2 choices for wagon struts.

KYB GR2: Available in wagon applications, but only 02/03, so you need the spacer.
Koni inserts: Available in both 02/03 and 04+, so you don't need the spacer. They do require cutting up a set of struts though.

Either would work just fine for a daily driver. The Konis are more expensive, but you can turn down the damping for a more comfortable ride. I've had both installed with springs with the same rates, and they were both good solutions.
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Old 11-03-2007, 12:25 AM   #3
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What about KYB AGX?
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:24 AM   #4
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gc fronts and gd rears supposedly fit... (with spacers)

but you may still lose some negative camber up front? i forget
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Old 11-03-2007, 08:52 AM   #5
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AGXs aren't wagon specifc, so you have the same camber penalty you have with all sedan struts. GC struts have the same camber penalty, a spring perch located in a different location, and different brake line & ABS tabs.
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:47 AM   #6
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Tokico D Specs? Also non wagon specific?
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Old 11-03-2007, 01:21 PM   #7
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Tokico D Specs? Also non wagon specific?
Correct. I believe also only have an 02/03 fitment, so a spacer would be needed.
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Old 11-03-2007, 04:13 PM   #8
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Correct. I believe also only have an 02/03 fitment, so a spacer would be needed.
And Tokico Dspecs have the camber penalty on the wagon. If you rallyx, Koni's allegedly don't hold up.

I also want wagon pink springs and can't decide on struts. Because I rallyx, I'm considering the Tokico D-specs, but wish I coulda gone with Koni's for their valve reputation. I'm considering the wagon pink struts.

So I'm wondering: who has a "better" (ie digressive) shock dyno: the sti wagon pink struts or the tokico d-specs?
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Old 11-03-2007, 11:49 PM   #9
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I would go with the D-Specs anyway. After putting on the STi take off springs (equivalent to US Pinks) and the D-Specs, I would never get non-adjustable dampers that weren't matched specifically to the springs I'm running. If I didn't beat on the car, I'd have gone with the Konis (and will be using the Konis on my fiancee's since she only DDs and AXs the car). The D-Specs are nice and all, but the camber loss is a bitch. They do handle abuse well though. They don't mind landing from humps and absorbing big hits. They're pretty well valved, though not as digressive as I'd like.

BTW, at a TSD recently, I got through it all without any damage to the car while guys on lowering springs lost bodywork! Tall, stif springs FTW!
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:05 AM   #10
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Would running the GR2 or even AGX require running camber bolts?
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Old 11-04-2007, 12:27 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by williaty View Post
I would go with the D-Specs anyway. After putting on the STi take off springs (equivalent to US Pinks) and the D-Specs, I would never get non-adjustable dampers that weren't matched specifically to the springs I'm running. If I didn't beat on the car, I'd have gone with the Konis (and will be using the Konis on my fiancee's since she only DDs and AXs the car). The D-Specs are nice and all, but the camber loss is a bitch. They do handle abuse well though. They don't mind landing from humps and absorbing big hits. They're pretty well valved, though not as digressive as I'd like.

BTW, at a TSD recently, I got through it all without any damage to the car while guys on lowering springs lost bodywork! Tall, stif springs FTW!
I agree... but wouldn't getting the wagon pink springs and wagon pink struts be matched by design? Let's say I'm willing to get the sti pink spring/strut combo all at once... would the digressive curve be better this way or with the d-specs and the same springs?
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:29 PM   #12
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What's your obsession with the digressive damping curve?
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Old 11-04-2007, 04:35 PM   #13
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What's your obsession with the digressive damping curve?
I was under the impression that it was a good thing, but "not easy" to achieve in a strut design and still keep costs reasonable... thus at this end of the scale, "the more the better".

Is that wrong?
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:22 PM   #14
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Its easy to achieve in strut, just throw in a digressive piston...done. An extreme digressive setup slows weight transfer at very low piston speeds but can sacrifice traction as a result. A digressive curve or curve where the "knee" is at low piston speeds feels good (sharp, snappy turn-in response) but has trade-offs such as loss of traction because the wheel can't react quick enough to bumps. there's been quite a few on this board going on and on for years saying that the digressive curve (and an extreme one at that) is the way to go, that anything less is "not motorsports worthy". That's over simplified and ignorant. Take a look at the Öhlins dyno that TIC posted up, hardly an aggressive digressive curve, but few would argue with the performance. as far as costs go, koni's inserts have a very aggressive digressive curve at the upper levels of damper adjustment, just slightly, almost linear through the middle ranges.
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Old 11-04-2007, 05:51 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
Its easy to achieve in strut, just throw in a digressive piston...done. An extreme digressive setup slows weight transfer at very low piston speeds but can sacrifice traction as a result. A digressive curve or curve where the "knee" is at low piston speeds feels good (sharp, snappy turn-in response) but has trade-offs such as loss of traction because the wheel can't react quick enough to bumps. there's been quite a few on this board going on and on for years saying that the digressive curve (and an extreme one at that) is the way to go, that anything less is "not motorsports worthy". That's over simplified and ignorant. Take a look at the Öhlins dyno that TIC posted up, hardly an aggressive digressive curve, but few would argue with the performance. as far as costs go, koni's inserts have a very aggressive digressive curve at the upper levels of damper adjustment, just slightly, almost linear through the middle ranges.
Mm ok then, let me rephrase the question... assuming the same wagon pink STi springs, what would be a motivation to get Tokico D-specs over the wagon pink STi struts; besides price? (I'm assuming that with the exception of dialing up the dampening for cheap suspension stiffening, one would find the "matched" setting and use it for > 95%... which is essentially the pink struts, assuming they are "matched".
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Old 11-04-2007, 07:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnie View Post
Its easy to achieve in strut, just throw in a digressive piston...done. An extreme digressive setup slows weight transfer at very low piston speeds but can sacrifice traction as a result. A digressive curve or curve where the "knee" is at low piston speeds feels good (sharp, snappy turn-in response) but has trade-offs such as loss of traction because the wheel can't react quick enough to bumps. there's been quite a few on this board going on and on for years saying that the digressive curve (and an extreme one at that) is the way to go, that anything less is "not motorsports worthy". That's over simplified and ignorant. Take a look at the Öhlins dyno that TIC posted up, hardly an aggressive digressive curve, but few would argue with the performance. as far as costs go, koni's inserts have a very aggressive digressive curve at the upper levels of damper adjustment, just slightly, almost linear through the middle ranges.
Hah, no, nothing that fancy. Digressive dampers are just comfier to me. They tend to get the job done with respect to body control but not make my back hurt as much on the freeway over the little expansion strips and things like that.
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Old 11-05-2007, 01:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Mm ok then, let me rephrase the question... assuming the same wagon pink STi springs, what would be a motivation to get Tokico D-specs over the wagon pink STi struts; besides price? (I'm assuming that with the exception of dialing up the dampening for cheap suspension stiffening, one would find the "matched" setting and use it for > 95%... which is essentially the pink struts, assuming they are "matched".
Well, for one, inverted wagon struts are really hard to find (maybe subarupartstx still brings in stuff?). The V7 wagon stuff is fairly similar in ride to the V8/9 stuff but I personally can't stand STi inverted struts. Just a very rough ride at low speeds and then big bumps/compressions aren't handled very well. A buddy of mine (poison on the boards) went from a V8/STi Prodrive setup to a DSpec/STi Prodrive and he is much happier. He has a TS wagon, drop him a pm and he'll let you know what he thinks. Granted,. you have the camber loss but you can take care of that with double bolts or plates. Naturally, koni's would be the best for wagon's as far as an adjustable, wagon compatible solution is concerned.

Here's a dyno of STi V8 F/R vs Evo VIII vs STi V7 F:

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Old 11-05-2007, 01:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurospek View Post
Which struts are best for a 05 WRX Wagon with STi Pink wagon springs that I solely use as a daily driver for the time being. What are my choices in wagon specific struts, and also are there any struts that simply bolt in without the use of the spacer (washer) mod? Thanks for the help and suggestions.
For really just a daily driver, I find that the GR-2s and sti takeoffs (same as your wagon pinks basically) are very comfortable and up to the task. That's the cheapest option and they are wagon specific. Any of the adjustable struts will be good, but you will have the camber penalty and they are more expensive.



That being said, I am switching to '04 STi struts this winter to get ready for rally-x season next year. I haven't decided if I will go with a stiffer spring or not yet, but I am guessing the STi struts are going to hold up to rally-x a LOT better.

Last edited by Jard; 11-05-2007 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 11-05-2007, 03:16 PM   #19
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absolutely. i've found the sti struts to be much better in gravel. try with a softer spring, i.e. stock wagon first. I've found the stiffer STi spring (ca. 200/190) to be a bit jarring on some impacts and the stock springs to be more supple but still controlled with the STi strut. the lack of camber will be less of an issue on gravel as you only need about -1.
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Old 11-05-2007, 03:56 PM   #20
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absolutely. i've found the sti struts to be much better in gravel. try with a softer spring, i.e. stock wagon first. I've found the stiffer STi spring (ca. 200/190) to be a bit jarring on some impacts and the stock springs to be more supple but still controlled with the STi strut. the lack of camber will be less of an issue on gravel as you only need about -1.
I have been struggling with spring choices...maybe I will go back to stock wagon springs...that's not a bad idea.

I'm running -2.6 F camber and -1.3 R right now. I wasn't planning on going with any less.
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Old 11-05-2007, 04:40 PM   #21
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For really just a daily driver, I find that the GR-2s and sti takeoffs (same as your wagon pinks basically) are very comfortable and up to the task. That's the cheapest option and they are wagon specific. Any of the adjustable struts will be good, but you will have the camber penalty and they are more expensive.



That being said, I am switching to '04 STi struts this winter to get ready for rally-x season next year. I haven't decided if I will go with a stiffer spring or not yet, but I am guessing the STi struts are going to hold up to rally-x a LOT better.
That's what I think I'll settle on when the time comes, price is good, and for DD I really don't need the adjustability.

Can someone explain why with the premium adjustable shocks camber becomes an issue, is it solely because they are non-wagon specific?

And also with the GR2, would ones for a 2003 WRX wagon work on an 05 with the spacers, are spacers for the rear and the front? 2002-2003 front strut housing is the same as 2005?? but 2005 rear requires spacers?? Am I understanding this correctly, as for 2003 WRX on the Tire Rack site the GR2 is available, but for an 2005 it only lists the AGX and Koni inserts.

Thanks guys!
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Old 11-05-2007, 04:50 PM   #22
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That's what I think I'll settle on when the time comes, price is good, and for DD I really don't need the adjustability.

Can someone explain why with the premium adjustable shocks camber becomes an issue, is it solely because they are non-wagon specific?

And also with the GR2, would ones for a 2003 WRX wagon work on an 05 with the spacers, are spacers for the rear and the front? 2002-2003 front strut housing is the same as 2005?? but 2005 rear requires spacers?? Am I understanding this correctly, as for 2003 WRX on the Tire Rack site the GR2 is available, but for an 2005 it only lists the AGX and Koni inserts.

Thanks guys!

The sedan has a wider front track than the wagon. Putting a sedan front strut housing on a wagon where the track is narrower cuts out some camber. Most aftermarket strut companies only make a sedan fitment.

Spacers are only for the rear. I don't see why an 03 GR-2 with spacers wouldn't fit.
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Old 11-05-2007, 05:09 PM   #23
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I'm currently running GR-2s with the SPT Wagon Pinks and I really am enjoying the setup. IMO, it is a great DD setup. Very comfortable and very composed.

You will need the spacers, but they are a one-time deal. In otherwords, the only time I have EVER dealt with them was A) ordering them and B) bolting everything up. They are a non-issue and do their job perfectly.

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Old 11-05-2007, 06:14 PM   #24
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I have been debating this same issue of recent (have had wagon pinks on for about 20K miles). There are many people on the board who say that the Tokico's are worlds better than the KYB AGX, however, I am currently leaning towards the AGX's anyway due to cost.

My reading brought me to this conclusion: KYB AGX, GC front, GD rear, TIC spacer, extra eccentric bolts all the way around. Does this make sense?

And out of curiosity, while we're on the subject, what is a a good camber angle for the rear? It seems that anything around -1.5 degrees or more in the front is decent.
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Old 11-05-2007, 06:16 PM   #25
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I have been debating this same issue of recent (have had wagon pinks on for about 20K miles). There are many people on the board who say that the Tokico's are worlds better than the KYB AGX, however, I am currently leaning towards the AGX's anyway due to cost.

My reading brought me to this conclusion: KYB AGX, GC front, GD rear, TIC spacer, extra eccentric bolts all the way around. Does this make sense?

And out of curiosity, while we're on the subject, what is a a good camber angle for the rear? It seems that anything around -1.5 degrees or more in the front is decent.
What's your goal for the car? How are you going to use it? Do you really need adjustability?
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