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Old 08-14-2004, 02:01 PM   #1
chrisdeaner
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Default Where should I be setting the boost on my stock turbo?

I'm waiting on the arrival of my Greddy Profec-b spec II boost controller and am wondering where I should be setting the higher boost setting at. I have heard from some people that the stock turbo becomes inefficient after 17-18psi (I can't remember exactly where) and others have said it's good to almost 20psi although i find that very hard to believe. I'm currently running a JDM up-pipe, Bosal Twin dump down pipe, daddy's 3rd cat eliminator and the STi axle back exhuast, as well as an unthoradox racing underdrive pulley. I was thinking about a target boost of around 16.5psi on the high setting (maybe 12-12.5 on the low to save gas). Does this sound about right or should I be looking at a different number? I tried doing a search but didn't want to sift through over 20 pages of possible threads (however if there is a thread that deals with the question already, please direct me to it!)
Thanks!
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Old 08-14-2004, 02:13 PM   #2
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You should leave it at the stock boost levels. Without engine management, boost control on a WRX is a bad idea.

The Profec B is about $350-400 if memory serves. Return it and buy a reflash for the same price. You'll gain a good 30hp over the boost controller.
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Old 08-14-2004, 02:31 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MB38
You should leave it at the stock boost levels. Without engine management, boost control on a WRX is a bad idea.

The Profec B is about $350-400 if memory serves. Return it and buy a reflash for the same price. You'll gain a good 30hp over the boost controller.
I agree.
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Old 08-14-2004, 02:34 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MB38
You should leave it at the stock boost levels. Without engine management, boost control on a WRX is a bad idea.

The Profec B is about $350-400 if memory serves. Return it and buy a reflash for the same price. You'll gain a good 30hp over the boost controller.
As much as I'd hate to shoot somebody's plans down, yeah. I agree with MB38. For $400, you are 2/3 the way to an AccessPort, and almost halfway to a UTEC. These are much more comprehensive solutions that go beyond just 'upping the boost.' In the right hands, they're also safer.
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Old 08-14-2004, 03:16 PM   #5
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If you plan on keeping the EBC dont apply more than 15psi, or you will run super lean under partial throttle. Im sure most of us can agree that the EBC without proper mods and tuning will be the end of you Ej20.



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Old 08-14-2004, 03:18 PM   #6
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Just an FYI, accessport is $395 from Cobb (at least that's what their website says). I got the EBC for $190 so I didn't even consider the reflash (since it's twice as much as i paid). I recognize that I will eventually need engine management (I've already begun to look into some options), however this was an awesome deal and I'd like to play around with it for awhile. Hopefully someone who has run this setup (or something similar) can give me some numbers to start out with.
-Chris
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Old 08-14-2004, 04:02 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdeaner
Just an FYI, accessport is $395 from Cobb (at least that's what their website says). -Chris
thats the accessECU
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Old 08-14-2004, 04:21 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snvin
As much as I'd hate to shoot somebody's plans down, yeah. I agree with MB38. For $400, you are 2/3 the way to an AccessPort, and almost halfway to a UTEC. These are much more comprehensive solutions that go beyond just 'upping the boost.' In the right hands, they're also safer.
Or more than halfway to a USED UTEC... which is just as good!
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Old 08-14-2004, 04:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdeaner
Just an FYI, accessport is $395 from Cobb (at least that's what their website says). I got the EBC for $190 so I didn't even consider the reflash (since it's twice as much as i paid). I recognize that I will eventually need engine management (I've already begun to look into some options), however this was an awesome deal and I'd like to play around with it for awhile. Hopefully someone who has run this setup (or something similar) can give me some numbers to start out with.
-Chris
It's still $190 down the drain. Making power safely isn't always cheap. If you just want to have an eletronic do-dad in your cup holder to look l337, thats fine. You already have an uppipe and downpipe, plus got rid of the third cat. Your basically a stage 1. Might as well either save up for a UTEC or a reflash, or get IC hoses.


Full_Clip saves up for the biggest and baddest.
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Old 08-14-2004, 04:46 PM   #10
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Just to answer your original question - You are going to toast your engine if you set your eBC to anything other than stock boost (14.7). Why spend $190 just to set your car at stock boost? Cranking it up to 16-17 psi isn't safe, and you won't fell the difference without a proper tune.


Full_Clip restated the obvious.
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Old 08-14-2004, 05:29 PM   #11
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Well, it's not even safe running at the stock boost levels. At less than 55% throttle position, the ECU will limit boost. With just a boost controller, you would be able to make boost. This would be more air than the car was expecting (even at "stock" boost levels), causing it to run dangerously lean.

Again, even if you set it to the stock boost level, you'll be hit with a dangerously lean condition at partial throttle.
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Old 08-14-2004, 10:21 PM   #12
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Well, I agree and disagree with some of the advice given. My car is stock and I ran it with an APEXI AVCR ebc at around 17psi. Your fuel cut is at 18psi, so you wont be able to go over that no matter what (without eliminating it). I then got a piggy back fuel computer and took it to ESX. I thought they were going to richen me out to compensate for boost. Nope. They leaned me out on the WOT setting because WRXs run rich. I suggest you run it around 16psi. If it has 2 modes, set one slightly lower than stock for regular driving. It is true that the stock controller will limit boost according to throttle, but as long as your not getting boost spikes, or coming on boost to early, it won't hurt your engine. If anything, you blow your turbo seals from the extra work its under, and have to replace that. If it offers a duty cycle rpm specific, you can create a boost curve to mimic stock if you wish. If you can, try trading that in for the AVC-R, its worth the extra money.

Edit: That is entirely untrue about boost not making an impact, a higher boost will make an impact on acceleration and feel of the car, regardless of tuning or lack of.

Last edited by BlackedOutRex; 08-14-2004 at 10:24 PM. Reason: Forget to mention...
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Old 08-14-2004, 11:33 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Clip
and you won't fell the difference without a proper tune.
You definitely will. Been running my Hallman mbc for almost a year, 15K miles. Compression is still strong and within 5 of each other. Ran a 13.5 @ 101 with just the mbc, stromung dp, and prodrive axle back. Not bad. I guess I was one of hte lucky ones though.
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Old 08-14-2004, 11:55 PM   #14
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you have an 02, which is good.

set the ebc to 16, and enjoy the power. i have perused many thousands of lines of utec datalogs and the stock 02/03 ecu will handle the boost very well and safely. you will be just about maxing the stock injectors, but the afr will still be hella rich. your timing will be fine too.

think about hoses, they're a good mod.

as always, pay attention to your car. if you feel a lumpy powerband, that's timing being pulled from certain problematic rpm ranges after the oem ecu detects knock. that's a sign you need to either a) dial back boost or b) run with higher octane gas.

good luck
ken
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Old 08-15-2004, 07:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
you will be just about maxing the stock injectors, but the afr will still be hella rich. your timing will be fine too.
When you say the injectors will be maxed out, is it due to the fuel pump not being able to keep up (ie: should i be looking into a Walbro pump) or are they just not capable of delivering enough fuel around 16psi? Also, I've already begun the search for IC hoses...I figured that would be a good thing to do to improve air flow to the turbo if I am going to be running higher boost.

As far as the stock maps go...are they sufficient for running 16psi on the stock turbo? That's been my only fear and I've heard both yes and no from credibile sources (on and off the NABISCO boards).
-Chris
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Old 08-15-2004, 08:18 PM   #16
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I know you got it for $190, but you really are better off saving your money for an AccessPort, used UTEC, or EcuTek reflash.
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:15 PM   #17
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the stock ecu is pretty smart. on an 02 with no cats... id say 16 is safe. i had the same setup and the stock ecu had me running pig rich. i doubt we'll convince him to go with em. its the better way, obviously, but 16psi isnt going to blow up an 02 with full exhaust.

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Old 08-15-2004, 09:26 PM   #18
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Actually, we just had a 2002 model in last week with a full exhaust that was running 16psi with a manual boost controller. This week he gets to buy himself a new engine. This is not out of the ordinary. I work at a dealer, in case you missed that
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:57 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisdeaner
When you say the injectors will be maxed out, is it due to the fuel pump not being able to keep up (ie: should i be looking into a Walbro pump) or are they just not capable of delivering enough fuel around 16psi? Also, I've already begun the search for IC hoses...I figured that would be a good thing to do to improve air flow to the turbo if I am going to be running higher boost.

As far as the stock maps go...are they sufficient for running 16psi on the stock turbo? That's been my only fear and I've heard both yes and no from credibile sources (on and off the NABISCO boards).
-Chris
it's the injectors simply running out of flow. but like i just said, at 16psi you are still plenty rich, even if they go static. if you tuned it to a nice afr you'd be less than static.

can an engine be killed while an mbc fitted to 16psi is installed? you betcha. that only implies a correlation, not causality. with 93 octane gas and some mechanical sympathy, it works just fine. if you're don't have any idea what PTFB is, you can get into trouble. OTOH, if you have an EBC that can map according to TPS, you're golden.

i can say that i have watched the fuel flow and the ignition advance on the stock ecu @ 16psi and it has sensible values. [edit: while running above 60% throttle.] in other words, just about the values i put into my utec maps that are run hard and are det free. at the very least they are certainly not MORE aggressive. they even look pretty good at 17psi, but that's obviously pushing it harder.

ic hoses are good 'cause they give you "free" manifold pressure increase. that is, the turbo can work as hard as it did before, yet give you more effective pressure. or you can net the same manifold pressure with an easier working turbocharger.

jm2c
ken

Last edited by ride5000; 08-15-2004 at 10:07 PM.
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Old 08-15-2004, 09:59 PM   #20
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Regardless of what you do end up doing... Let the recommendation stand that next time you decide to modify your car... actually research the decision.
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Old 08-15-2004, 10:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MB38
Regardless of what you do end up doing... Let the recommendation stand that next time you decide to modify your car... actually research the decision.
Hence the reasone i posted this before I installed the EBC... I am still looking for a good deal on an accessport or used utec...however if i did go wit the utec, it would require tuning (AFAIK) which is more $$$ :/
-Chris

edit: I've been looking into the AccessECU/AccessPORT and am thinking that might be the better way to go. I've PM'd the guy I was buying the EBC off to see about a refund (although I'm going to try to buy his Samco IC hoses ) and will put that towards a reflash. However, I do have another question. When is an EBC appropriate? I mean, what sort of mods would someone need to make this a good idea? You're not going to want full boost at partial throttle unless you're actually racing right?

Last edited by chrisdeaner; 08-16-2004 at 05:08 AM.
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Old 08-16-2004, 01:42 AM   #22
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ebc is appropriate any time you want to change boost without popping your hood.
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Old 08-16-2004, 06:53 AM   #23
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...and to ensure that - unlike an mbc - your unit will pull boost when it detects spikes on colder nights etc...

I ran an AVCR on my car (15psi) completely stock and it just hit and held 15psi really well (some taper over 6000rpm). But yeah then I did tbe/ecu/uppipe/pod for my first round mods so fuel was covered...

I wouldn't put an mbc on my car.
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Old 08-16-2004, 08:26 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clutchcargo
...and to ensure that - unlike an mbc - your unit will pull boost when it detects spikes on colder nights etc...

(snip)

I wouldn't put an mbc on my car.
i wouldn't NOT put an mbc on my car... for the last 23k miles i've had one on!

a good mbc will not spike, thereby eliminating the necessity of "pulling boost" when it spikes on colder nights.

i have cockpit adjustability AND a ball and spring MBC, but no PTFB. it's possible--you just have to be inventive.

jm2c
ken
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Old 08-16-2004, 09:35 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
you have an 02, which is good...

as always, pay attention to your car. if you feel a lumpy powerband, that's timing being pulled from certain problematic rpm ranges after the oem ecu detects knock. that's a sign you need to either a) dial back boost or b) run with higher octane gas.

Exactly... pay CLOSE attention to your car when using a boost controller. If you can & will watch everything like a hawk, it could work for you, but if you are a 'set it & forget it' type guy, look elsewhere for power.

Personally, I'd be OVERLY paranoid about it (even if I had an 02/03 and not an 04) to the point where I wouldn't be able to enjoy my car... but that's just me.
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