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Old 07-12-2017, 09:36 PM   #226
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Can't seem to find 2332 on their website. High-tech 5w40 i found is 3863. Is it the same?
https://products.liqui-moly.us/leich...e-5w-40-2.html

https://www.amazon.com/Liqui-Moly-23.../dp/B00LIC29H6
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:40 PM   #227
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Yes, but if you can find something cheaper then go that route. No need to get anal retentive about oil in a stock car.
would you please recommend some 5w30 options other than Liqui Moly 5w40? 18 STI completely stock and having hard time decide between amsoil and liquid moly.
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Old 09-26-2017, 11:37 AM   #228
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would you please recommend some 5w30 options other than Liqui Moly 5w40? 18 STI completely stock and having hard time decide between amsoil and liquid moly.
I had posted this in another forum, but here it seems just as relevant.

For 100% (true) full synthetic oils.

Quoting from: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ttela-syn.html

You have to look for the CAS number (found in the MSDS sheet) to somewhat decipher the base oil composition.

Hydroisomerized Group III Base oils:
Gas Oils, (Petroleum) Vacuum, Hydrocracked, Hydroisomerized, Hydrogenated C15-C30: CAS # 178603-64-0
Gas Oils (Petroleum), Vacuum, Hydrocracked, Hydroisomerized, Hydrogenated, C20-C40: CAS # 178603-65-1
Gas Oils (Petroleum), Vacuum, Hydrocracked, Hydroisomerized, Hydrogenated C25-C55: CAS # 178603-66-2
Also:
Middle Distillate, Hydrotreated: CAS # 64742-46-7
Distillates, Petroleum Hydrotreated Heavy Naphthenic: CAS # 64742-52-5
Petroleum Distillates, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic CAS # 64742-54-7
Lubricating Oils (Petroleum), Hydrotreated C20-C50, Neutral Oil-Based: CAS # 72623-85-9
Lubricating Oils (Petroelum), Hydrotreated C15-C30, Neutral Oil-based: CAS # 72623-86-0 Coupons
Lubricating Oils (Petroleum), Hydrotreated C20-C50, CAS # 72623-87-1
White Mineral Oil, CAS # 8042-47-5
PAO's (Group 4 oils): 68649-12-7, 68037-01-4, 163149-29-9, 151006-63-2, 151006-62-1, 151006-60-9. VII's of +155 or greater

Diester (Group 5 oils): 28472-97-1; VII's average +170.

It used to be that the Group IV and Group V base oils were really the only synthetics. Now the highly refined hydroisomerized Gas oils are considered synthetics.
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Old 09-28-2017, 06:55 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by iMagnus View Post
I had posted this in another forum, but here it seems just as relevant.



For 100% (true) full synthetic oils.



Quoting from: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ttela-syn.html



You have to look for the CAS number (found in the MSDS sheet) to somewhat decipher the base oil composition.



Hydroisomerized Group III Base oils:

Gas Oils, (Petroleum) Vacuum, Hydrocracked, Hydroisomerized, Hydrogenated C15-C30: CAS # 178603-64-0

Gas Oils (Petroleum), Vacuum, Hydrocracked, Hydroisomerized, Hydrogenated, C20-C40: CAS # 178603-65-1

Gas Oils (Petroleum), Vacuum, Hydrocracked, Hydroisomerized, Hydrogenated C25-C55: CAS # 178603-66-2

Also:

Middle Distillate, Hydrotreated: CAS # 64742-46-7

Distillates, Petroleum Hydrotreated Heavy Naphthenic: CAS # 64742-52-5

Petroleum Distillates, Hydrotreated Heavy Paraffinic CAS # 64742-54-7

Lubricating Oils (Petroleum), Hydrotreated C20-C50, Neutral Oil-Based: CAS # 72623-85-9

Lubricating Oils (Petroelum), Hydrotreated C15-C30, Neutral Oil-based: CAS # 72623-86-0 Coupons

Lubricating Oils (Petroleum), Hydrotreated C20-C50, CAS # 72623-87-1

White Mineral Oil, CAS # 8042-47-5

PAO's (Group 4 oils): 68649-12-7, 68037-01-4, 163149-29-9, 151006-63-2, 151006-62-1, 151006-60-9. VII's of +155 or greater



Diester (Group 5 oils): 28472-97-1; VII's average +170.



It used to be that the Group IV and Group V base oils were really the only synthetics. Now the highly refined hydroisomerized Gas oils are considered synthetics.


And I'll post my same response here in case anyone missed my response in the Oil FAQ thread.

Thank you for an 8 year old thread where they cannot spell the oil they're discussing (sorry, my grammar police hat is on).

An MSDS isn't a complete list of ingredients in motor oil. It only lists the hazardous substances. Most oil blenders these days blend various base stocks to create a finished product. So just because you find Group III, IV, or V base stocks in an MSDS does not mean that the oil is 100% composed of that base stock, only that the base stock was used. It's rare that any oil these days uses just one of any base stock regardless of their marketing.

At the time of that thread, Shell had confirmed that their Rotella T6 used Group III Shell XHVI base stock (not 100% positive on the 15W40). Good RT6 UOA's all over the internet show that it's the specs that matter most and not the base stocks used. Now Shell is moving to the Group III Gas to Liquid base stocks which meet or beat Group IV PAO's in some areas.

Remember, it's the finished product and the specs that an oil meets that matter most. The most demanding specs in the world (MB, Porsche) can be met using Group III base stocks. Welcome to the 21st Century!
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Old 10-10-2017, 06:22 PM   #230
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How about motul 300v 5w40 for 2017 wrx sti ?
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:13 PM   #231
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How about motul 300v 5w40 for 2017 wrx sti ?


Great oil although it carries no API approvals if that's a concern. It has enough detergents/dispersants to do about a 5k mile interval (maybe up to 6k miles depending on conditions).
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Old 10-10-2017, 07:42 PM   #232
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Great oil although it carries no API approvals if that's a concern. It has enough detergents/dispersants to do about a 5k mile interval (maybe up to 6k miles depending on conditions).
I understand the manual says 5w30, but I'm finishing the break in period ( 1000 miles ). I think motul 300v 5w40 is better than 5w30 from subaru, what I want to know, will I have any problems with this oil? Stock 2017 wrx sti.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:04 AM   #233
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I understand the manual says 5w30, but I'm finishing the break in period ( 1000 miles ). I think motul 300v 5w40 is better than 5w30 from subaru, what I want to know, will I have any problems with this oil? Stock 2017 wrx sti.

Problems with the oil or problems from the dealer/SoA in case of a Powertrain Warranty claim?

See section 7 above:
Street/Track Oils
These oils are designed for use in street cars which see heavy track day use. They maintain some levels of detergent additives and TBN for use on the street but shift their focus as much as possible toward track use. They may be appropriate for heavy use in a street car, but are generally expensive and unnecessary. Examples include Red Line (regular series), Valvoline VR1 and Motul 300V.

You won't have problems with the oil itself but you may run into problems trying to get warranty coverage. As I mentioned, 300V carries no API approvals so it depends on your dealer and what your receipts show if you have a claim. Motul X-cess does carry API and Euro builder certifications.

If you just want to run 300V, you could actually run the 5W30 in a stock STI. Due to ester base stocks, higher anti-wear additive package, and high HTHS, it's a completely different animal than the Subaru oil or any GF5 5W30.

See Section 3 above:

High Temperature-High Shear Viscosity (HT/HS)
HT/HS is a measure of dynamic viscosity, it represents the oilís thickness within the vital hydrodynamic bearings of an engine. It is the most important measure of how well the oil will perform as a hydrodynamic lubricant. HT/HS is measured at 150įC (302įF) which is a worst-case temperature for most engines. The higher the HT/HS, the stronger the hydrodynamic film in the engineís bearings. Thus, the correct HT/HS is more important than the KV100 (SAE Grade) when selecting oil. If the oil formulator publishes their HT/HS it's best to ignore the grade and KV100 and base your choice on the HT/HS. As we will see later, different industry specs categorizing motor oil are based in large part on HT/HS and those specifications will tell us much about the oil's HT/HS even if the formulator doesn't publish a specific value.
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Old 10-11-2017, 12:45 PM   #234
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Problems with the oil or problems from the dealer/SoA in case of a Powertrain Warranty claim?

See section 7 above:
Street/Track Oils
These oils are designed for use in street cars which see heavy track day use. They maintain some levels of detergent additives and TBN for use on the street but shift their focus as much as possible toward track use. They may be appropriate for heavy use in a street car, but are generally expensive and unnecessary. Examples include Red Line (regular series), Valvoline VR1 and Motul 300V.

You won't have problems with the oil itself but you may run into problems trying to get warranty coverage. As I mentioned, 300V carries no API approvals so it depends on your dealer and what your receipts show if you have a claim. Motul X-cess does carry API and Euro builder certifications.

If you just want to run 300V, you could actually run the 5W30 in a stock STI. Due to ester base stocks, higher anti-wear additive package, and high HTHS, it's a completely different animal than the Subaru oil or any GF5 5W30.

See Section 3 above:

High Temperature-High Shear Viscosity (HT/HS)
HT/HS is a measure of dynamic viscosity, it represents the oilís thickness within the vital hydrodynamic bearings of an engine. It is the most important measure of how well the oil will perform as a hydrodynamic lubricant. HT/HS is measured at 150įC (302įF) which is a worst-case temperature for most engines. The higher the HT/HS, the stronger the hydrodynamic film in the engineís bearings. Thus, the correct HT/HS is more important than the KV100 (SAE Grade) when selecting oil. If the oil formulator publishes their HT/HS it's best to ignore the grade and KV100 and base your choice on the HT/HS. As we will see later, different industry specs categorizing motor oil are based in large part on HT/HS and those specifications will tell us much about the oil's HT/HS even if the formulator doesn't publish a specific value.
Perfect ! I think Motul X-cess 5w40 or 5w30 is the way to go for my stock 2017 wrx sti.
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Old 10-12-2017, 05:23 AM   #235
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So Iíve recently joined NASIOC and my MY08 WRX Wagon is my first turbo car. Iíve been taking some advice from my friend with an EVO8, B5S4 and RB25 S14 about the turbo life. He uses Liqui-Moly and we both recently discovered MolyGen from them. Itís 5W40 and sounds like a synthetic blend because it claims to have a synthetic base. Reason I ask is because itís friction modifier is also viewable under UV light for those sneaky leaks. Anyone try this yet? Was gonna buy some this weekend.
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Old 10-12-2017, 09:18 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Scuubz View Post
So Iíve recently joined NASIOC and my MY08 WRX Wagon is my first turbo car. Iíve been taking some advice from my friend with an EVO8, B5S4 and RB25 S14 about the turbo life. He uses Liqui-Moly and we both recently discovered MolyGen from them. Itís 5W40 and sounds like a synthetic blend because it claims to have a synthetic base. Reason I ask is because itís friction modifier is also viewable under UV light for those sneaky leaks. Anyone try this yet? Was gonna buy some this weekend.


I did some searching and cannot find the specific details of LM's friction modifier. All oils contain FM's whether molybdenum, antimony (only in a few oils) or a non-metallic FM that doesn't show up in uoa's.

I doubt that you can see the actual FM with a UV light. The oil itself is green which is the result of additives, but I'd like to see more details about it being the FM. The only thing that I can find is just marketing fluff and most videos are in German.

Oils that use Infineum as their additive company (there are only 4 or 5 additive companies in the world) are likely using Tri Nuclear Moly as the FM:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2265014

http://elit-oil.io.ua/files/0001/21/00012167.pdf

Castrol 0W40 at Wal-Mart for ~$25 meets most of the same specs as MolyGen (API SN, Porsche A40, MB 229.5, VW502, BMW LL- 01, etc) so I'd be curious to know more about LM's kewl new friction modifier. ???

If you do pick up MolyGen please do a VOA with TBN and perhaps the FM will show up in the VOA. Use Oil Analyzers Inc through Amsoil since they show more additives and include TBN for a cheaper price than Blackstone.

Last edited by bluesubie; 10-12-2017 at 09:27 AM.
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Old 10-12-2017, 12:25 PM   #237
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is there any general rule how much every +10 oil weight increases the pressure by?


going from 10w40 to 20w60 on loose mains has given me approx 1 bar of pressure
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:16 PM   #238
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going from 10w40 to 20w60 on loose mains has given me approx 1 bar of pressure


HTHS has a bigger impact on oil pressure than oil grade does. If you compare a 5W30 with a high HTHS to a 5W40 with a lower HTHS, the 5W30 will usually provide higher pressure. And whether or not an oil maintains the same oil pressure over the entire interval depends on a number of factors.
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Old 10-12-2017, 02:25 PM   #239
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I did some searching and cannot find the specific details of LM's friction modifier. All oils contain FM's whether molybdenum, antimony (only in a few oils) or a non-metallic FM that doesn't show up in uoa's.

I doubt that you can see the actual FM with a UV light. The oil itself is green which is the result of additives, but I'd like to see more details about it being the FM. The only thing that I can find is just marketing fluff and most videos are in German.

Oils that use Infineum as their additive company (there are only 4 or 5 additive companies in the world) are likely using Tri Nuclear Moly as the FM:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2265014

http://elit-oil.io.ua/files/0001/21/00012167.pdf

Castrol 0W40 at Wal-Mart for ~$25 meets most of the same specs as MolyGen (API SN, Porsche A40, MB 229.5, VW502, BMW LL- 01, etc) so I'd be curious to know more about LM's kewl new friction modifier. ???

If you do pick up MolyGen please do a VOA with TBN and perhaps the FM will show up in the VOA. Use Oil Analyzers Inc through Amsoil since they show more additives and include TBN for a cheaper price than Blackstone.


Sweet! I think Iíll order it all just to help out if nothing else.
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Old 10-26-2017, 05:26 AM   #240
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Sweet! I think Iíll order it all just to help out if nothing else.


Still working on ordering everything, had some financial hang ups last paycheck. Iíll be placing the order for everything on Friday.
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Old 11-06-2017, 03:10 AM   #241
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I did some searching and cannot find the specific details of LM's friction modifier. All oils contain FM's whether molybdenum, antimony (only in a few oils) or a non-metallic FM that doesn't show up in uoa's.

I doubt that you can see the actual FM with a UV light. The oil itself is green which is the result of additives, but I'd like to see more details about it being the FM. The only thing that I can find is just marketing fluff and most videos are in German.

Oils that use Infineum as their additive company (there are only 4 or 5 additive companies in the world) are likely using Tri Nuclear Moly as the FM:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2265014

http://elit-oil.io.ua/files/0001/21/00012167.pdf

Castrol 0W40 at Wal-Mart for ~$25 meets most of the same specs as MolyGen (API SN, Porsche A40, MB 229.5, VW502, BMW LL- 01, etc) so I'd be curious to know more about LM's kewl new friction modifier. ???

If you do pick up MolyGen please do a VOA with TBN and perhaps the FM will show up in the VOA. Use Oil Analyzers Inc through Amsoil since they show more additives and include TBN for a cheaper price than Blackstone.




Finally got the VOA kit for the MolyGen. Iíll post the information I receive from their email as soon as it comes in. Iím extremely curious about it all and canít wait to see the results!
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Old 11-20-2017, 03:46 AM   #242
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Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
I did some searching and cannot find the specific details of LM's friction modifier. All oils contain FM's whether molybdenum, antimony (only in a few oils) or a non-metallic FM that doesn't show up in uoa's.

I doubt that you can see the actual FM with a UV light. The oil itself is green which is the result of additives, but I'd like to see more details about it being the FM. The only thing that I can find is just marketing fluff and most videos are in German.

Oils that use Infineum as their additive company (there are only 4 or 5 additive companies in the world) are likely using Tri Nuclear Moly as the FM:

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forum...Number=2265014

http://elit-oil.io.ua/files/0001/21/00012167.pdf

Castrol 0W40 at Wal-Mart for ~$25 meets most of the same specs as MolyGen (API SN, Porsche A40, MB 229.5, VW502, BMW LL- 01, etc) so I'd be curious to know more about LM's kewl new friction modifier. ???

If you do pick up MolyGen please do a VOA with TBN and perhaps the FM will show up in the VOA. Use Oil Analyzers Inc through Amsoil since they show more additives and include TBN for a cheaper price than Blackstone.


Finally got the initial test result. They wanted some more info before doing everything so there should be more coming soon!
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Old 11-20-2017, 07:24 PM   #243
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Finally got the initial test result. They wanted some more info before doing everything so there should be more coming soon!

Thanks! The Friction Modification appears to be Tri-nuclear moly based on the moly level. Similar to Mobil 1 0W40. Calcium level is also similar to M1 as well with the ZDDP level being similar to Castrol Edge 0W40.
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Old 11-21-2017, 11:31 AM   #244
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Has anyone ever heard of of tried HKS branded oils with strange weights like 7.5W42 ? Ran across these the other day and just couldn't find much about it.

https://www.hks-power.co.jp/en/produ...oil/index.html
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Old 11-21-2017, 07:20 PM   #245
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Has anyone ever heard of of tried HKS branded oils with strange weights like 7.5W42 ? Ran across these the other day and just couldn't find much about it.

https://www.hks-power.co.jp/en/produ...oil/index.html


I would never use an oil that comes in fake grades.
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Old 11-21-2017, 08:51 PM   #246
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I would never use an oil that comes in fake grades.
Other than the fact that these grades aren't listed on SAEJ300, what makes them fake? The SAE grade specs provide enough details for a supplier to extrapolate an intermediary grade.
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Old 11-22-2017, 09:36 AM   #247
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They're fake IMO simply because they're not defined by SAE J300. What is the data for these oils? Red Line doesn't have any oil certified by the API but at least their specs can be easily found and you can see the ASTM tests used to arrive at those specs as defined by J300.

What is the KV of a 42 grade at 100C? What is the maximum viscosity of a 7.5W in the cold cranking simulator test and at what temp was it measured at?

Too many unanswered questions when I can get Castrol/Mobil 1/ Pennzoil from Wal Mart for <$26 that meets Porsche A40, VW502, MB229.5, BMW LL01, etc and I can easily find the data. Need a street/race oil? Motul and Red Line have you covered. All of the above oils have specs that can easily be found and are tested according to defined ASTM requirements.

Last edited by bluesubie; 11-22-2017 at 09:42 AM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:40 PM   #248
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Thanks! The Friction Modification appears to be Tri-nuclear moly based on the moly level. Similar to Mobil 1 0W40. Calcium level is also similar to M1 as well with the ZDDP level being similar to Castrol Edge 0W40.


You so smart! I love it! That chart kinda threw me for a loop for a bit, lol!!
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:50 PM   #249
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They're fake IMO simply because they're not defined by SAE J300. What is the data for these oils? Red Line doesn't have any oil certified by the API but at least their specs can be easily found and you can see the ASTM tests used to arrive at those specs as defined by J300.

What is the KV of a 42 grade at 100C? What is the maximum viscosity of a 7.5W in the cold cranking simulator test and at what temp was it measured at?

Too many unanswered questions when I can get Castrol/Mobil 1/ Pennzoil from Wal Mart for <$26 that meets Porsche A40, VW502, MB229.5, BMW LL01, etc and I can easily find the data. Need a street/race oil? Motul and Red Line have you covered. All of the above oils have specs that can easily be found and are tested according to defined ASTM requirements.
Isn't KV just a measured value ? Simply pour liquid into a capillary tube and measure the time it takes to run down at what ever temperature you want? Seems like a trivial measurement exercise assuming its done using the test methods D445, D7042, IP 71, or ISO 3104. Anyhow, the point wasn't to get into an argument but rather, determine if anyone had any experience with the oil...after all, this is an oil thread
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Old 12-06-2017, 07:55 PM   #250
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