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Old 07-06-2018, 03:15 PM   #26
JPelletier
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And now that I own the R, and have branched away from Subaru, I regret not shopping around when we bought the Outback. I was just dead-set that we were buying a Subaru.
What would you buy instead of the Outback?
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:46 PM   #27
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Yeah, I fell into that trap - owned nothing but Subaru for 15 years. When my Tribeca got hit (and totaled), Subaru had nothing in that segment, so I went Kia. Now I'm seeing that Kia has quite a few nice vehicles that I probably wouldn't have even considered two years ago.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:53 PM   #28
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To be fair, Kia has been upping their quality only more recently than 15 years.

It's definitely healthy to reconsider other manufacturers whenever you're in the market. Just have to be fair when doing research, like what's the current reputation and such.
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Old 07-06-2018, 05:11 PM   #29
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To be fair, Kia has been upping their quality only more recently than 15 years.

It's definitely healthy to reconsider other manufacturers whenever you're in the market. Just have to be fair when doing research, like what's the current reputation and such.
And residual value if like me, you can't keep a car more than 4-5 years or even less That's one of the reason why I have a Subaru
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:05 PM   #30
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It's an easy trap to fall into though. The known enemy is easier to deal with than the unknown. When you've had one brand for a while, you start to learn the quirks that are common with the brand. You know what to expect. Shifting to another manufacturer brings a lot of uncertainty, and people are generally scared of uncertainty.

Every day I hop in my R, I'm thrilled that I gave Subaru the boot.

And now that I own the R, and have branched away from Subaru, I regret not shopping around when we bought the Outback. I was just dead-set that we were buying a Subaru.
The funny thing about the Outback is I now know 3 people who have bought a Ridgeline over it. They made the mistake of driving it. But that is what you have to do, drive things. They tried that torque vectoring AWD in the unibody, and were surprised. The transmission is also excellent, with great shift points. Itís actually pretty quick.

I was Honda only for many vehicles and years. Them axing their performance models got me into my first Subaru, the STI. These days I look at individual models way more than the brand. None of these mfrís give a damn about me so I choose the right vehicle for my needs. Subaru, like Honda, dropped what I like so Bye Felicia. Easier to just move on and take my hard earned money elsewhere.

I used to get something new every 2-3 years but Iím done with that too. Even with solid resale there is still $ loss and I figured out to keep stuff, pay it off, then I can add to the fleet. That way I keep myself from buying expensive things. MSRPís are crazy these days so unless Iím dead set on keeping something I donít make the purchase and donít waste the money. It is nice having a DD and a weekend vehicle separate from each other. Trying to get too much out of one vehicle often involves compromise. With a DD I can rack up the miles on the less expensive car and make the more expensive model in my lineup last 3X - 5X as long. Something efficient to drive every day and something less efficient with power.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:08 PM   #31
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What would you buy instead of the Outback?
Not sure really... There's so many cars that would have fit the bill: 4runner, RDX, CX5, Tiguan, Pilot, Q5, Pathfinder, Rogue, Explorer, Grand Cherokee, etc...

I was so interested in Subaru's offerings that I overlooked the fact that other companies are gaining on them in safety and reliability, while their awd system takes a tick down every time the release a new transmission.
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:32 AM   #32
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Not sure really... There's so many cars that would have fit the bill: 4runner, RDX, CX5, Tiguan, Pilot, Q5, Pathfinder, Rogue, Explorer, Grand Cherokee, etc...

I was so interested in Subaru's offerings that I overlooked the fact that other companies are gaining on them in safety and reliability, while their awd system takes a tick down every time the release a new transmission.
How many new transmissions is that?
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Old 07-07-2018, 02:54 AM   #33
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How many new transmissions is that?
Well, starting 2008 wrx lost a rear diff. Automatics are all now cvt and just about the same as most other garbage awd systems out there. Our outback spins the front wheels before the rear engages. Guaranteed it doesn't get better as Subaru implements Toyota's prime transmission in the next hybrid.
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Old 07-07-2018, 09:56 AM   #34
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Well, starting 2008 wrx lost a rear diff. Automatics are all now cvt and just about the same as most other garbage awd systems out there. Our outback spins the front wheels before the rear engages. Guaranteed it doesn't get better as Subaru implements Toyota's prime transmission in the next hybrid.
I have not noticed our 2012 Outback spinning the front tires in the snow. It seems to behave like you expect. But I haven't driven any other AWD in the snow besides a 2002 WRX and 2012 Outback. I'd happily buy the WRX if it were rear drive.
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Old 07-07-2018, 11:04 AM   #35
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Yeah. I don't get to "live" with the current systems; but, the few days a year we get accumulation, I get the cars out to play with them on the back lot. I have not noticed any "spinning" outside the typical all 4 "dance" as I call it. But, they've always done that and VDC typically keeps that in check and I can only get it to do it on straight ice anyway. I have a couple friends with Crosstreks that are very outdoorsy. They LOVE the offroad capability. One says it's better than the Liberty he traded in. Yes, I know that's not the best comparison; but, he "brags" about his latest adventures all the time.

The only "issue" I have encountered was on purpose to test this trying to reverse over a curb when you butt the wheels against it(instead of a rolling start) and try to go. It certainly won't do it. I even shared a video of me trying on a FXT. But, have yet to have that issue with a simple, common sense, rolling start. Yes, I can see that there could be a situation where it gets stuck and can't move. I ain't worried about that small miniscule chance.

Now, this "rear diff" complaint. Well, that's beyond me if someone could explain it for me. Each new version is faster overall that the previous; so, I don't fully understand the "problem".
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Old 07-07-2018, 01:11 PM   #36
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It's not really a problem... but Subaru's awd system is no longer industry leading, aside from the sti. My wrx without a rear diff got around fine but was less tail driven in inclement weather. The point is less about what's wrong with that, but more that they're no longer differentiated from the pack because of superior awd. The other options are just as good in regular driving.

Our outback is rarely driven in the snow, it's mostly driven in rain or dry. On hard acceleration from a standstill, dry or wet, wheels turned, the front wheels spin for a half second until the rear catches up. Even my R, with a rear diff that Subaru lovers knock on left and right, doesn't spin on the same exact turn with significantly harder acceleration. Sure, different segment and tires, but the same rear diff is used on outback competitors from VW.

Oh and I came across one particular road that demonstrated the lack of a rear diff in the wrx... drove it every day though. Steep uphill, hard right turn, with some interesting road contours, followed by a hard left, again with interesting contours. Rear tires lost traction every time because of the road dips, and the car would jerk and stumble. Every time. Outback and R have no issues. The car made it up fine, but it didn't feel good...

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Old 07-07-2018, 02:49 PM   #37
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The current AWD system still sends power to all of the wheels, but just sends more power to the front wheels under normal driving conditions. I know you already know this, but I just don't really know why you'd want 25% power at each corner every time you drive even when it isn't necessary?

I love the CVT over traditional automatics. I hate that they have to program in pretend shifts because people can't adapt their driving expectations.
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Old 07-07-2018, 06:15 PM   #38
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The current AWD system still sends power to all of the wheels, but just sends more power to the front wheels under normal driving conditions. I know you already know this, but I just don't really know why you'd want 25% power at each corner every time you drive even when it isn't necessary?
I don't need power to all wheels all the time. Heck, my R is FWD most of the time and I'm totally fine with that. But the diff in my R (and other VW AWD cars) is preemptive, rather than reactive. It looks at requested torque, steering angle, etc. and preemptively sends power to those rear wheels, where as the Subaru feels like it's waiting until it loses traction to do so, and at that point, it's too late. I already look like a dick by pulling out on someone and not accelerating fast enough...
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I love the CVT over traditional automatics. I hate that they have to program in pretend shifts because people can't adapt their driving expectations.
Couldn't agree more. The faux shifts are terrible, glad that our Outback doesn't have them to the same extent that the newer CVT's do. I just wish they had a more preemptive awd system.
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Old 07-07-2018, 07:42 PM   #39
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It's not really a problem... but Subaru's awd system is no longer industry leading, aside from the sti. My wrx without a rear diff got around fine but was less tail driven in inclement weather. The point is less about what's wrong with that, but more that they're no longer differentiated from the pack because of superior awd. The other options are just as good in regular driving.

Our outback is rarely driven in the snow, it's mostly driven in rain or dry. On hard acceleration from a standstill, dry or wet, wheels turned, the front wheels spin for a half second until the rear catches up. Even my R, with a rear diff that Subaru lovers knock on left and right, doesn't spin on the same exact turn with significantly harder acceleration. Sure, different segment and tires, but the same rear diff is used on outback competitors from VW.

Oh and I came across one particular road that demonstrated the lack of a rear diff in the wrx... drove it every day though. Steep uphill, hard right turn, with some interesting road contours, followed by a hard left, again with interesting contours. Rear tires lost traction every time because of the road dips, and the car would jerk and stumble. Every time. Outback and R have no issues. The car made it up fine, but it didn't feel good...
Don't disagree here. I've always picked my battles when using those old Subaru AWD vs the competition videos because they are always on an incline. We don't have that much incline here; so, only when I think the customer may use their car for more than "regular" driving do I really get into it. I would certainly love to see Subaru produce another training/video with all the modern cars to hash it out. Forester/X-mode was the last training for that and I do believe some of the competition has improved their AWDs since then.

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I don't need power to all wheels all the time. Heck, my R is FWD most of the time and I'm totally fine with that. But the diff in my R (and other VW AWD cars) is preemptive, rather than reactive. It looks at requested torque, steering angle, etc. and preemptively sends power to those rear wheels, where as the Subaru feels like it's waiting until it loses traction to do so, and at that point, it's too late. I already look like a dick by pulling out on someone and not accelerating fast enough...

Couldn't agree more. The faux shifts are terrible, glad that our Outback doesn't have them to the same extent that the newer CVT's do. I just wish they had a more preemptive awd system.
I don't ever feel this at all. And something I point out to customers on a test drive(raining is always a plus. They ALWAYS buy after a rain test drive). Not saying it doesn't happen. I just have yet to experience "slippage" as you describe it. And I still have yet to ever get stuck in Subaru(minus my first winter driving in Japan with my Justy). I just don't trust anyone else at this point till I see something different. I've seen some videos that look promising from other makes; but, those are also cars I wouldn't be looking at(Highlander).
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Old 07-08-2018, 02:41 AM   #40
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Looking forward to this.
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Old 07-08-2018, 01:05 PM   #41
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I don't ever feel this at all. And something I point out to customers on a test drive(raining is always a plus. They ALWAYS buy after a rain test drive). Not saying it doesn't happen. I just have yet to experience "slippage" as you describe it. And I still have yet to ever get stuck in Subaru(minus my first winter driving in Japan with my Justy). I just don't trust anyone else at this point till I see something different. I've seen some videos that look promising from other makes; but, those are also cars I wouldn't be looking at(Highlander).
You really should drive something else besides Subaruís so you have some credibility. Hondaís SH-AWD, and their AWD system in the new Ridgeline is exceptional, as is the Focus RS. The two AWD systems are very similar with half shafts and real torque vectoring on the rear wheels. The game has changed.
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Old 07-08-2018, 07:25 PM   #42
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You really should drive something else besides Subaruís so you have some credibility. Hondaís SH-AWD, and their AWD system in the new Ridgeline is exceptional, as is the Focus RS. The two AWD systems are very similar with half shafts and real torque vectoring on the rear wheels. The game has changed.

Was unaware SH-AWD was put on the Hondas. I know they have a newer i-VTM4 system on the Pilot and Ridgeline; but, thought the rest got Real Time AWD? What's the difference in SH-AWD and i-VTM4?
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Old 07-09-2018, 02:58 AM   #43
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Where is info stating the SGP WRX will be later than 2020MY or should be later than a 2020MY release? The SGP Impreza, Crosstrek, and Forester are following the same pattern of release as their respective preceding generations, so why not the SGP WRX?
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:35 AM   #44
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So by the time the next STI arrives, the Impreza it's based on (tarted up on) will be near the end of its lifecycle? This means the interior and design (inside and out) will be incredibly outdated? The new imprezas interior already feels dated, imagine how it will be in 2 years time. Dayum.

My 15 wrx was released what 2-3 years after the previous Impreza, and now another 4 years on it's essentially 6-7 years old with no replacement in sight. Props to the guy whos been waiting since 2006.....
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:09 AM   #45
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^ The new impreza's interior doesn't feel dated at all to me. And I drive both that and the VA. The VA's is dated. Hands down.

I'm sure there will be enough trim refreshing to make it STI-fresh if it still has the current Impreza's interior. Though at this rate, who knows... it might have a different interior by then?
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:18 AM   #46
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So by the time the next STI arrives, the Impreza it's based on (tarted up on) will be near the end of its lifecycle? This means the interior and design (inside and out) will be incredibly outdated? The new imprezas interior already feels dated, imagine how it will be in 2 years time. Dayum.

My 15 wrx was released what 2-3 years after the previous Impreza, and now another 4 years on it's essentially 6-7 years old with no replacement in sight. Props to the guy whos been waiting since 2006.....
I'm hoping they aren't stupid and do this...

At this point, they need to just skip this gen Impreza interior and use the next gen interior.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:40 PM   #47
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Where is info stating the SGP WRX will be later than 2020MY or should be later than a 2020MY release? The SGP Impreza, Crosstrek, and Forester are following the same pattern of release as their respective preceding generations, so why not the SGP WRX?
they need the extra time to make sure its slower and heavier than the current one.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:10 PM   #48
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I'm hoping they aren't stupid and do this...

At this point, they need to just skip this gen Impreza interior and use the next gen interior.
That will be the cheapest and laziest option, therefore of course Subaru will do it.

For the guy saying his 2017 Impreza's interior doesn't feel dated, by the time this car hits the lots EVERY other manufacturer will have their next gen products out making the mediocre 2017+ Impreza interior feel even worse. Hell, Subaru might even have their next gen Impreza out by then too.

The final nail in the coffin is when the next gen STI still has the EJ257. Then Subaru comes out and claims the EJ is better than whatever other motor because it excelled in motorsports 30 years ago and continues to brag about the success they had a generation ago while not innovating anything since then. Kind of reminds me of Cowboys fans bragging about super bowl victories from a bygone era despite not being relevant since then...
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:52 PM   #49
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they need the extra time to make sure its slower and heavier than the current one.
LOL!!
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:20 AM   #50
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That will be the cheapest and laziest option, therefore of course Subaru will do it.

For the guy saying his 2017 Impreza's interior doesn't feel dated, by the time this car hits the lots EVERY other manufacturer will have their next gen products out making the mediocre 2017+ Impreza interior feel even worse. Hell, Subaru might even have their next gen Impreza out by then too.

The final nail in the coffin is when the next gen STI still has the EJ257. Then Subaru comes out and claims the EJ is better than whatever other motor because it excelled in motorsports 30 years ago and continues to brag about the success they had a generation ago while not innovating anything since then. Kind of reminds me of Cowboys fans bragging about super bowl victories from a bygone era despite not being relevant since then...
This guy gets it.

The hardcore guys will say they don't buy the wrx/sti for its interior or even styling. But as some of us get older these cars need to get more mature in some areas too. Funnily enough performance is stagnant (STI) or even slower than before (Wrx) so it's not like they are compromising on interior, refinement and tech to give us better performance.....

Current RS had 350 hp so you know the rumours of 400 can't be too far off. Rumoured 400 hp golf R can't be far off the mark either as they will want to compete with RS after getting spanked this time around with only 300hp. New gti will be a cracker I'm sure. New focus st already seen testing. Civic type r is a beast and spanks the sti even though its "only" fwd.....

What you got Subaru? Especially for all those wanting a world class STI again? Maybe the competition has us sorted....
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