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10-21-2021, 12:04 AM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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WRX FKL issue
Hey all,
I posted in another section but didn't get any feedback. If anyone is willing to lend advice, please do so. Original Post (with updates)- Hello Everyone, First - thanks for your info and experience. I have been lurking on here for a couple years and never really had anything to contribute. I have had my '15 WRX for about 2 years now and decided it was time to start working on having a little more fun. Right now, there's very little in the way of "mods" that affect performance. Just a normal air filter, mishimoto radiator (factory was getting brittle) and AP. I booted up the Stage 1 OTS tune, and it was great! I could totally feel it took off better and no more falling on its face mid-rpm. After a couple of days, it had a hesitation. After some reading on here, I swapped up my monitors and have IAT, oil temp, FKL, boost, fuel press, AFR. Seems to cover most basis to see what was going on. I noticed the FKL going to -4.4. It didn't seem to be going too low on AFRs, it wasn't overboosting, etc. On my way back from SoCal Subie Fest, I noticed that hesitation was even worse. Now it's -5.6. I'll admit to experimenting with low ethanol levels (~2 gal of E85 for a full tank of 91). I did this for ~ 3 tanks now and will likely stop in case it is throwing something off, but from basic research, this is somewhere around E15-20 at those proportions. PhatBotti E85 Testing I'll apologize for the newbie question, but anyone have ideas on what to do? Because I've done enough reading on here to know, I am planning on getting real tunes, but I haven't truly modified anything yet. I'm hoping to get the parts listed below, and book the tune at that point. Recommendations welcome. Also, I have logs! I posted them on Drive, let me know if this link works or if there is a better way to do this - Drive Link If anyone wants to know my long term (performance) plans (in a rough order) - Mishimoto intake 3 port EBCS Flex Fuel AEM 340lph pump Mishimoto J pipe Factory catback - with cutout after cat. Noise + power, with a switch. Control / Handling - 1" lift - Done (I end up in dirt a lot) Powerstop D&S rotors all around - Done Front strut tower brace - Done Whiteline swaybars and links - soon? Cosmetic stuff is for last. I had the whole charge pipe/ intercooler/ header planned, but I don't want to make resetting to smog legal THAT hard on myself. I can unplug the flex fuel and bypass the EBCS, swap J pipes and reflash to factory probably in an easy afternoon. If anyone has comments about the current issue or future plans, I'd welcome additional info. Update - Got a new air filter as I read it could be that, no change. Old one was not that bad. Full tank of 91 to see if it changed anything. Update 2 - DAM is now showing .625 and I saw a spike in FKL of ~-7. That hesitation is VERY noticeable.
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10-21-2021, 11:52 AM | #2 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 522652
Join Date: Feb 2021
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Not an expert
I'm not expert, but I've had my 15 WRX for a few years now and put ~60k miles on her in that time. I've also been autocrossing it for the last 2ish years. My first red flag was pumping e85 w/o a flex fuel kit. ECU won't know wtf to do especially w/o a real tune. I suggest using strictly pump gas until the flex kit is on and you have someone at least E-tune it. Since you've been running like that I would also check/change spark plugs. I had a lot of knock/DAM issue when getting my first tune done, especially at low throttle and going up hills. So much so that I went ahead and put a water/meth injection system on to help. It did help and I drove and raced that ****ty tune around for ~40k, but still wasn't optimal. I just had it re-tuned by taylordtuning and 200% night and day difference. Trap speed on my AP went from 94 to 107 MPH just with his tune. If you go E85 it will be better than the water/meth for sure, just be aware of how to keep up with maintenance using water absorbing alcohol as your fuel. I'd recommend a few other mods for power as well... but if you're trying to pass smog every year just do you. PROTIP before tuning: Make sure you pick a tuner that likes to use the 1 step colder plugs from the BRZ. EVERY plug I pulled before and after my first tune had ceramic blistering . Also just a psa about the whiteline swaykbars: if you don't NEED them stock is probably better. Not sure with a 1" lift, but I put front and rear on my car and it made the front shutter in the middle turns during autocross (running on Hoosier A7s mind you). After switching the rear back to stock it fixed the issue.
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10-22-2021, 04:38 PM | #3 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 446029
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 510
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Have you inspected/changed your plugs lately?
It's no problem running a splash of E85 on a stock tune. In closed loop the fuel trims can compensate. In open loop the stock tune is pig rich, leaning out is not a concern. |
10-22-2021, 06:28 PM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 459692
Join Date: Dec 2016
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Hampton Roads Va
Vehicle:2019 WRX STI silica black |
Does that go for EJs ?
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10-22-2021, 08:07 PM | #5 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 520001
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Canada
Vehicle:2018 WRX WRB |
+1. These cars are really sensitive to plugs. I changed out my plugs at 34,000km (~21,000 miles) because of knock issues that couldn't be tuned out. The old plugs looked fine, but installing new ones resolved my issue and now she's running like a champ again. They're cheap, and it's an easy DIY install, so it could be worth a try.
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10-25-2021, 11:25 PM | #6 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Grymedub RE:
Quote:
Let me go over your points in order here -
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10-25-2021, 11:35 PM | #7 | ||
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Quote:
I have not in many miles, so I think that'll be a project this weekend. How bad is that job on these boxers? Seems like there's no room to get down there haha Quote:
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10-26-2021, 02:42 PM | #8 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 520001
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Canada
Vehicle:2018 WRX WRB |
It's fiddly not not difficult to do the plugs. 1-2 hr job, unless you don't have the right combination of sockets and extensions, in which case it will be impossible. Check out some tutorials on the forums or YouTube to learn all the tips and tricks before you give it a go.
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10-28-2021, 01:12 AM | #9 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Not too bad
Quote:
Thanks for the tip! I'll be doing it this weekend and I'll follow up with news once I've gotten it done. |
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10-28-2021, 01:18 AM | #10 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Side question for anyone wishing to answer - Since I have some standard items (EBCS) and some "flavor" items (Mish intake and J pipe) are there large issues for tuning? Will I get push back from a tuner because those aren't "the most popular" or is it less black and white?
I have done lots of carb bike mods, but that's stuff like jetting, lifting needles, cams, etc. What about off brand Flex Fuel kits? Cobb sells theirs for $600, but some people sell GM FlexFuel modules built for 15+ WRXs for half that. Seems Cobb is plug and play (probably worth the money to just not have a hassle on my hands) but I'm curious about suggestions on this. Thanks again! |
10-28-2021, 11:54 AM | #11 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 448185
Join Date: Jun 2016
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Essex County, New Jersey
Vehicle:2016 WRX DGM |
Stick with Cobb for the flex fuel. You want the standard for that, so tuners know what's up.
Black Friday is coming soon, and that is Cobb's only sale a year, so you can probably get it for cheaper. Although with chip shortages and what not, there might not be a sale. These cars are finicky with metered air (intake) and not being specifically custom tuned for your intake is 100% going to cause the vehicle to operate significantly worse than the stock intake. I just did my plugs again myself, and it was not terrible on this car. Removing the battery for the driver's side is a must, and moving the ECU on the passenger side helps. If you're looking for gap recommendations on your plugs, Mike Botti (my tuner) says 16. YMMV |
10-31-2021, 10:29 AM | #12 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 522652
Join Date: Feb 2021
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Quote:
My cat broke off inside my j-pipe, so I pulled it out. The tune never even noticed. Also not much sound difference with the stock mufflers on. Other mods would be AOS/catch can, TGV deletes, EGR delete, and especially the rest of the exhaust. If you want to be ninja like me just leave the stock mufflers. In car sounds good, but at the track it's one of the most quiet cars out there. I'd try the BRZ racing plugs if you're getting constant FKL, but that's me. As long as you re-gap them to the .025 instead of the .028 they come you should be fine. You WILL need a fresh set for the tune though, or at least I highly recommend it. Maybe keep the old ones for backup? But really if you're trying to modify a "performance" engine and want to cheap out on spark plugs.. just leave it stock lol. These engines are not cheap to upgrade and doing it right lets it stay running past 100k even when you're pegging it on the limiter in 2nd for 60 seconds at a time every few weeks at the track. For the street the sway bars will be fine and you will most likely love them. I guess I got a little ahead of myself there. Hope you figure it out and get her running right! Not sponsored or anything, but hit up taylordtuning.com and he will answer any and all questions you have about FA tuning and give you a sweet e-tune. |
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11-01-2021, 01:40 AM | #13 |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 500337
Join Date: Apr 2019
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48k straight ethanol 50%+ without cycling regular gas myth. Not one hiccup. In retrospect id keep the car stock and just ethanol the piss out of it.
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11-01-2021, 11:03 PM | #14 | ||
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Quote:
Intake - My question was more of, when getting a tune, will they tune anything or just XYZ parts. I don't consider Mishi a no-name brand though... Plugs - Done now, everything is MUCH better. Wait for flex fuel and a tune before E85. Picture of plugs below. Plug gap - I didn't regap them, aaaand I don't really want to have to do it again unless I'm tuning so maybe then hahah. Tuning - Mike Botti as in PhatBotti? I've been reading his posts for a couple years now, he seems very knowledgeable. I see most of his tunes are cookie-cutter and I don't quite see what the price would be for my combo of parts I have planned. ///shrug Quote:
Can you really get away running E-85 straight on just the flex fuel and tank pump? I heard the HPFP needs to be done too but that's $1k alone. Mods - I considered the deletes but it just stacks up on my smog time. I may not own this car forever so if I tell the next owner - swap downpipe and bypass ebcs/ flexfuel, that's not too bad really... AOS was on the list, but I haven't yet seen a huge argument FOR it other than if a bunch of other stuff has gone wrong. What would your reasoning be for that? Exhaust - Truthfully, I want loud. I just can't do it all the time. My supermoto race bike is street legal and straight piped. I want that level of sound hahah. Hence the cutout. I could do a full turbo back, but then I'm mixing and matching. I figured J pipe with factory catback, plus cutout at the joint means I get the noise without too much cost and mess. I will run it open 99%. Just enough to leave the block and then wide open she goes. Spark plugs - I got them done this weekend. It's not terrible, and the spark plug socket was the only thing I was missing. All my other vehicles are larger plugs. Took it out for a spin Sunday and commuted today, and it's much better. No more hesitation even at low revs. It pulls up to -1.05° timing at WOT at high revs, but that could be normal. It used to advance by a degree, but I'm not seeing that anymore. Plug Pics They look fairly consistent except one had some localized heat on the ceramic. I will have to swap to BRZ plugs regapped when I go the E-85 and tune route. I'm good with swapping plugs and absorbing that cost, it's not that bad. I just don't want to WASTE money, I get that it's pay to play. Swaybars - I just want less roll. Well, truthfully, I want less understeer and liftoff oversteer. I've had a few interesting moments. I think better tires would also go a ways to help on those fronts too, but I'll admit I cheap out on tires sometimes because I know I'm gonna beat the snozzberries out of them. ///whoops Thanks again for the great info and feedback! |
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11-02-2021, 09:19 AM | #15 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 392337
Join Date: May 2014
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: knoxville, tn
Vehicle:2015 wrx Crystal white pearl |
Quote:
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11-02-2021, 04:49 PM | #16 |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 500337
Join Date: Apr 2019
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I would recommend you get a flex kit, ebcs and lpfp. Tune w Ron or Corbin, not Mikey. The other mods are waste of your money and offer minimal gains and ROI.
I also suggest you buy iBR flex kit, if you decide to buy one. If not, build your own or buy any other one to save money. I built mine and its in a ziplock bag (not even boxed) for 45k+ miles and not one hitch. Will replace it with another one once it craps out or i sell car. Otherwise dont fix whats not broke. There are instructions on how to build one on these forums. I would not spend 650$ on it, but if i did it would be iBR. It works on both fa and ej, so if nothing it sells better/easier. Be careful with advice from forums strangers, including me. |
11-02-2021, 04:52 PM | #17 |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 500337
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Theres a 20something page thread here about Cobb flex kit and how well it does not work. Personally, my educated guess is microstress fractured on the pcb due to mounting point being metal-metal on engine.
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11-02-2021, 05:35 PM | #18 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 448185
Join Date: Jun 2016
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Essex County, New Jersey
Vehicle:2016 WRX DGM |
At this point: Ask your tuner.
Find yourself someone you think you can trust. Maybe they're local so you can quickly hop over to them with issues, or maybe they're a known good e-tuner. Your tuner has preferences on the parts they tune. I specifically went with a different intake because a tuner requested it. Same with EBCS. If your car is comprised of parts from Brand X that your tuner likes, you'll probably have a better experience even though Brand Y is "better" than Brand X on the forums. |
11-19-2021, 07:53 PM | #19 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Hey all,
Well I'd like to get into all the tuning stuff, however I'm having a problem. The stupid FKL issue is back. I can floor it and it drops to -4.4 and sits there until I'm over 3k and then pops to +1. While running up through gears, I end up with heavy shuttering right after engaging the next gear up (and therefore lower in the RPM range). It's like identical at this point. I don't know what's happening if it's a fuel issue, or something else. I've read some things about head gasket leaks causing ignition issues because they are preventing combustion, so I'm going to do a leak test on the radiator tomorrow. Can anyone else help me with this? It's also just as possible that this is from the Cobb stage 1 tune but WTF how could this be a common thing to happen on their final, polished, and distributed version??? If anyone has ideas on what I should do, please help me out. Maybe a new monitor on the AP to see if my fuel pressure is dropping (maybe with numbers on what it should be) or a reasonably priced basic tune. Or maybe I just go back to factory and I wasted money buying an AP before I'm ready (granted it was used and much cheaper than new). Thanks in advance. |
11-19-2021, 10:09 PM | #20 |
*** Banned ***
Member#: 500337
Join Date: Apr 2019
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Its your hsit tune issue.
Leave car stock and get ebcs or add cheapest flex fuel kit and tune w a pro. I can sell you a diy kit for 250$, i run the 1st prototype still in my car and tune w Ron. The other mods offer ****ty ROI (waste of $) compared to flex fuel tuned w Ron or Corbin. Last edited by Rexy18; 11-20-2021 at 09:33 AM. |
11-29-2021, 11:50 PM | #21 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Alright well the Cobb tunes definitely have a bad rep.
At this point, I'm considering an E-tune to get me out of the rut that is COBB OTS. Does anyone have specific tuners they would recommend? I'm in the OC area of California. The biggest tuner I know around is Phatbotti, and have spent a good bit of time reading his info and articles, HOWEVER, the tunes I'm seeing on his page are ~$400, $600 for flex fuel. For right now, I don't have anything bolted on worth talking about. It seems a waste. Brentuning is around $200 for a basic e-tune, $350 for flex fuel. Taylord was also mentioned, they are at $300. Their mod order is quite different from what I've seen, but that is how preferences and experience stack up. I've also had Ron and Corbin mentioned, but sadly I'm not deep enough to know who they are. Website or links please, and I'll try reaching out. That being said, I like Phatbotti write ups and he seems to be informed while not egotistical. I would probably want someone I could talk to, and he sounds pretty reasonable. Based on his lists, EBCS and flex fuel sensor (Cobb or GS) [also lpfp]. Then tune and enjoy. He seems to think later would be good to add intake/ exhaust as $ makes possible. I'll be honest, I totally want sound so maybe this is a conversation point to have with a tuner. What I really want is to mod everything and get what I really want, but that is going to take some time. I can't responsibly dump $2-3k without a good bit of time of setting it aside and my supermoto race season is starting too. ...expensive hobbies are fine, just maybe don't pick all of them... pro tip. Last edited by DrHarter; 12-02-2021 at 10:28 PM. |
12-18-2021, 11:33 PM | #22 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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bump bump, in case anyone recommends a tuner in the greater OC areas.
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12-19-2021, 11:10 AM | #23 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 422693
Join Date: Jun 2015
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Buffalo,NY
Vehicle:2016 WRX Premium Lapis Blue Pearl |
Quote:
Mikey i think has a new system where tunes are scheduled for a day to get him logs. I know he has dyno tunes at his home shop as well as around the country. when i tuned with him a few years ago it took almost 2 months to get 8 revisions done (sent him logs within 48 hours of receiving a revision back). Phatbotti is very responsive and if you want can probably get 2-3 revisions done in a day or more depending on if he is busy. Another tuner popular on facebook group is ambot tuning but i havent gotten tuned by him or been in a car tuned by him but he gets good reviews also. |
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01-08-2022, 10:36 PM | #24 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 513053
Join Date: Mar 2020
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Thanks so much for the feedback (ha).
I have been looking at Phatbotti for a while so I think that makes my decision. |
01-08-2022, 11:03 PM | #25 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 484659
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Chicago
Vehicle:2018 WRX |
Had my wrx tuned by phatbotti last year and my sti was tuned by Mikey within the last couple months.
Phatbotti is more of a structured methodical tune/process. He tells you exactly what he wants, has a full instruction sheet for you to go off of, usually has a revision for you with 24-48 consistently. Power wise he's more conservative, a nice "flat" reliable useable powerband. Always ends with a 5 minute beat it log to check things over. It takes a bit to do a FF tune but it will be dialed in when he's done. I believe he's not dyno tuning currently, so his main focus is probably Etunes? I feel like Mikeys tuning process is the opposite. He's been super busy lately so it took him longer to get going on it. Ended up just confirming a day/time with him that you can go back and forth getting him logs (spent a good chunk of time over two days to knock it out). Obviously the same with the FF tune taking a bit of time, but at the end the day the tune is great. I believe he is more aggressive on going for power, but still a smooth powerband and doesn't feel like it needs to be rung out everytime. He doesn't relay a whole bunch of information to you unless you ask, which since I was used to the whole process it wasn't that big of a deal, could be kind of a turn off for people looking for someone to walk you through it. He will give you info though, you just have to ask. End of the day both tuners are great, just have different ways of going about things. |
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