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Old 02-12-2002, 12:07 AM   #1
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

Default who thinks this will work(and who doesnt)

I am making an air intake for my car since i like to design things and make projects for myself, anyways as of now i am calling it a "ram air intake" but maybe it is the wrong teminology. well here is my idea, i bought 3" aluminum tubing in a "U" bend, cut it so that it comes off of the throttle bodyand points right where the silencing air box used to be, for those with cobb or ganz flows it is at that same angle as yours when it goes into the fenderwall, but i stopped mine before and put on a K&N cone filter instead. here is my plan and i need opinions on if this will improve performance or not and i dont need the comments saying i just should have bought a ganz flow or cobb CAI because i just wanted to try this for the hell of it, if it works, great. ok so i am planning on taking out all of the factory intake tubing except for the very first intake hood. i plan to channel the incoming air into a box i am making out of fiberglass that surrounds the filter. i am hoping this will do two things, force air into the filter because it wont have anyother place to go, and two keep the air cooler because the box should help keep engine heat away from the air keeping it denser. i am hoping i am correct on my adventure, but i am thinking it is kinda just like putting the factory airbox at the beginning and just getting rid of all the kinks the factory tubing has. what is everyone's thoughts on this. if anyone is unclear(which im sure they are) please tell me to clarify parts, thanks
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Old 02-12-2002, 12:10 AM   #2
rallysquirrel
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Talking need schematics

I think I get the idea, and a schematic will clear it up. Just a thought.

Jan
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Old 02-12-2002, 12:47 AM   #3
Patrick Olsen
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Default

Sounds good to me. The only thing you'll need to figure out is how to attach the various hoses that hook up to the stock intake. That's the one advantage of the Cobb/Ganzflow/whoever intakes, they come with all the nipples (Woah, he said nipples! *smack* "Settle down, Beavis!!) already there.

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 02-12-2002, 11:07 AM   #4
Apexboy
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Thumbs up

hmm, sounds like a great idea. Have you thought about using the existing fog light area for more air? Maybe whip up something that will direct air directly into the cone?

Rich
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Old 02-12-2002, 11:21 AM   #5
HIHO
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I think it will work. I took out my stock fogs and put mesh in their place. There is a strait shot into the airbox/engine from the opening. I just have the stock air box but I thought about running some kind of pipe up and connect it to the airbox hole.
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Old 02-12-2002, 05:40 PM   #6
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

Default schematic

here is the layout i just did in like 2 mins so hopefully you get the idea. yes patrick you are correct but i think i have figured out a way to hook up the nipples, i am trying to find some silicone hose the correct ID though, i think bln scub has some on his car and i asked him what diameter it is and where he got it but he hasnt responded back yet. so there it is still got questions? feel free, and thanks a lot for the feedback.
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Old 02-12-2002, 06:21 PM   #7
Legacy777
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Default

The idea/drawing looks good.

Couple comments, questions I have. Does the new legacy motor have a MAF sensor or MAP sensor?

Have you given much thought to how you are going to secure the box that surrounds the filter? Fiberglass isn't super light, you will need to make sure it's secured well. I say this especially if your car does have a MAF sensor. They're sensitive to vibrations.

Where is this box going to sit, near or in the spot where the original stock filter box sat?

Are you going to run the ram air or intake tube to the front of the car where the grill is, or sorta leave it in the stock location? They pull from just above the grill correct?

What size tube is the intake tube going into the box? I'm assuming it's stock size. That is probably going to be your biggest restriction there. Now how much of restriction, I really couldn't tell ya.

I have thought about puttin my stock box back on, goin with a K&N drop in panel filter, and adding a second air intake to the bottom of the air box, and route that down to the front of the car.

You may want to do something similar with your setup to allow the car to breathe better at higher rpms. Maybe route a piece of tubing into the fenderwell.

In my case this would also give me a second intake incase I suck water in the one that is in the front.

Last comment, for now anyway The box thing is a good idea, maybe better then the cobb style intake. Two reasons that I can see. Main is you get cool air, the cobb style does this as well.

The other one is that you are providing a chamber or reserve of air when you go from idle to WOT. I have heard some people say they would get an engine bogging or hesitation when they dumped it from idle.

Some of the legacies and imprezas I think had that second air box behind the throttle body. I think some had air filter, but others didn't. It could've been to have an equalized pressure entering the intake or to provide that extra air when throttle was dumped.

Your box is before the filter rather then after, so not sure of how much of an effect it would have, but ya never know.

Josh
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Old 02-12-2002, 06:46 PM   #8
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

Default

josh-thanks for the comments and ideas. yes i have thought about how i will secure it,it will sit in the same spot so i am planning on using the factory bolt holding in the current box plus have you seen that there are a few holes on the side? mainly the one that if you had a cobb intake thats where the pipe would go through to the fender wall, i am planning on making some type of round piece on the side of the box that will sort of "plug" into that hole and hold it, kinda like the current factory box that has a little plug on the side. i dont have a MAF sensor but i think i have a MAP sensor but in anycase i have been told they are post engine or at least post intake so i dont have to worry about it. yes i am planning on pulling air just from the grill i thought about maybe running some other tubing from a diff part of the bumper then running that to the box too giving it even more air but that will come later if this is a success. nope the tube that is goin into the box is actually 3 inch diameter so i am letting it flow more freely and i am also painting the aluminum with super high temp paint to try and keep the engine heat from the charge of air since aluminum conducts heat quite well. yes i was thinking the same thing with the box being a resoviour of air for when you open it up so hopefully the low end torque wont be lost too much. hope my explaination helped, thanks for the ideas and comments!!
Ben
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Old 02-12-2002, 07:25 PM   #9
Legacy777
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Thanks for the details and questions answered.

Sounds like you got things under good control. If you got a 3" opening, that should be good. I think the stock opening on my legacy for the fender tube is like 2" If I go the route of putting the stock box back on, I'll probably add a 3" tube.

The MAP sensor is post intake. The MAF sensor, which I have is pre-intake, post filter, so that's just something I have to deal with.

I don't know how much the high temp paint will actually help reduce temps. High temp paint usually just means it will withstand high temps without flaking. You can see if there is any spray on insulation stuff. Or you can get some insulating stuff, something like the stuff they use on HVAC piping. You may have to search around for something that will work.

Josh
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Old 02-12-2002, 08:05 PM   #10
hotrod
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Default looks good to me

Your plan looks solid to me.

You are basically doing what became the most popular performance mod in the late 1960's.

The original was a hose from a removed head light, ducted with flexable tubing directly to the air cleaner housing.

Your name of ram air is right on, you will get a small ram air effect at speed. The theoretical boost from ram effect is about 0.18 psi max at 100 mph. You probably won't get quite that much because most systems only get about 0.75 recovery of the theoretical ram effect. It doesn't sound like much, but that combined with the cool air does make a difference. It's roughly equivalent to a 400 ft elevation reduction.

Larry
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Old 02-12-2002, 10:10 PM   #11
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

Default

WOOHOO!!! guess ill just run .010bar for boost, you know, dont want to go too hard on the engine hahaha. thanks for the encouragement guys and all the tips,
Legacy777- ill have to look into insulating it thanks for the idea,
hotrod-those are some sweet stats you gave thanks for the info. ill post pics as soon as i have it done but it might not be for a little while yet because here in MN its a little chilly but practically summer compared to usual. ill still try to work on the box inside and im gonna find out the best way to secure the "nipples" tomorrow.
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Old 02-13-2002, 11:46 PM   #12
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

Default

well i decided im gonna just get some 1/2" outside diameter aluminum conduit and just weld that to the pipe, or rather have someone weld it. that will work the best and look the cleanest too. plus i might even be able to use my stock hoses.
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Old 02-14-2002, 10:25 PM   #13
BlackGT00
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I left the stock air box in place and replaced the filter with a drop in K&N panel. I then removed the stock plastic crap-o-boxes and replaced them with a 3" intake from vibrant(designed for some honda). I looks good, only mildly affects intake noise during normal driving but really starts to sound effective above 140 kph.
If you are worried about underhood heat you should use some header wrap, it would look a lot better than some of the other suggestions.

Kevin
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Old 02-14-2002, 10:34 PM   #14
JoeT
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I've seen the setup in Kevin's car, it almost looks like the car should have come with this "Stock". Fits nicely. Too bad he's so slow at the CCCC races....


Actually he's quite quick. For a Family sedan driver.


Oh, hey!!

I drive the same family sedan.
Duct Tape anyone?
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Old 02-14-2002, 10:47 PM   #15
Legacy777
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Kevin,

You got any pics of your setup?
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Old 02-15-2002, 12:54 AM   #16
PHATsuby
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to stock is a project too

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thanks blackGT00, where can i get some header wrap and what exactly is it?
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Old 02-15-2002, 09:21 AM   #17
BlackGT00
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I will try to post a picture of my intake setup tonight, I think I have a picture somewhere.
Header wrap is a glass based weave, usually white, that wrap headers with to keep the heat in and reduce the under hood temperature. You can usually buy it at any hi-pro retailer that sells headers, you know those american hot rod shops.

Kevin
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Old 02-15-2002, 10:57 AM   #18
SSLegacyGT
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Default air-box

I've done 3" tubing before, through my foglight opening up the fender into the engine bay. I used some aluminum dryer tubing that was pretty flexible as far as stretching and bending, but it stayed rigid once it was in. Got it at Home Depot. I had the same idea with the airbox and all, similar to something I saw in Sport Compact Car that they did on a Sentra. I think they only saw a 1-2 hp increase, maybe even less than that. Theirs wasn't so much a ram air as it was just a "cold-air" box, and thats what I was going for as well. I'll post pics of what I had when I'm off work

-Derek
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Old 02-15-2002, 03:56 PM   #19
BlackGT00
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I'll dig up the photo and post it on Sunday.

Kevin
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Old 02-15-2002, 06:03 PM   #20
PHATsuby
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SSlegacyGT- do you know what issue of compact car that might have been?
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Old 02-17-2002, 10:37 PM   #21
BlackGT00
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Here's my intake setup, Phatsuby.

Kevin
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Old 02-17-2002, 10:44 PM   #22
PHATsuby
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blackGT00, that is awesome!! brings back memories of my black 2000 GT *tear* R.I.P. anyways that is sweet, have you noticed any gains with that set up? i am welding some stuff tomorrow and i finished the preliminary fiberglassing of my airbox tonight. im pretty excited. thanks for the pic, that is great.
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Old 02-17-2002, 11:40 PM   #23
BlackGT00
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If there is a gain it would probably be in the range of 1 to 2 hp for such a mod so I guess i would be a liar if I said I could feel it, but it does sound better. The gain I could feel was from my UR underdrive pulley.
Good luck with your build up.

Kevin

Last edited by BlackGT00; 02-18-2002 at 09:22 AM.
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Old 02-18-2002, 08:44 AM   #24
HIHO
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I don't understand how it works. When the hood is closed does it not block the air flow? Do you have a pic with the hood closed?
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Old 02-18-2002, 09:34 AM   #25
BlackGT00
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It looks like any Legacy with the hood closed. All the black plastic bits (airbox and scoop) are stock, all i did was to remove the silencer boxes, tubes and bends and replace them with a SS tube (mmm shiney). The scoop is supposed to take advantage of the slow moving high pressure zone created as the air passes through the grill and over a small plastic baffle (or so the engineering goes). It is not intended as ram air system. As many people have already posted on this site, ram air systems have negligible effect at the speeds that we are limited to by the laws of physics and the output of a four banger.
Kevin
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