Subaru "S210" Prototype Unveiled

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by YungBoba

This is incorrect, is it not? The VA chassis had S207, S208, S209. S207 came out in 2016 which was one year after the VA launched. If anything, that makes the S210 a bit late, relative to the timeline of S cars for the VA.

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Every gen has had an "S" version. This is just the lastest. Thing is, the "S"s most always come at the end of the life of the gen. I am now asking.......what's next?

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[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by Snitt

They're really stuck on the godawful plastic cladding above the wheels, aren't they? Until they can move past that cosmetic vomit, I only need to look at a picture to tell me that Subaru is still a joke. Don't care what engine it has. Don't care what transmission it has. Until they can make a car that actually looks good, they'll never convince me that they're anything but a bunch of half-wits with an Etch-a-Sketch.

I've been out of my '04 WRX for about 15 years now. Had my Golf R for 9 years. It's getting long in the tooth, so I'm considering another R, an Elantra N, and a GRC. Subaru isn't on my radar, and I suspect that this latest STi won't be on many other peoples' radar either.

They made the right call by limiting this piece of garbage to under 1000 units.

Subaru hasn't made a "good-looking" WRX in a long time. No wonder you've been out of the game for a while.

[Jack]

So it will still need painted Aeroflow Dynamics fender flares to make it not look like a Crosstrek?

I actually own a Crosstrek. Black so you don't really see the stupid plastic fender cladding. And with a proper manual gear box that apparently the new STi won't have.

Nope

S209 owners just saw their manual car, higher hp jump in value.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Jack

So it will still need painted Aeroflow Dynamics fender flares to make it not look like a Crosstrek?

I actually own a Crosstrek. Black so you don't really see the stupid plastic fender cladding. And with a proper manual gear box that apparently the new STi won't have.

Nope

S209 owners just saw their manual car, higher hp jump in value.

Did I miss this saying they were bringing it to the states?

[JustyWRC]

https://www.subaru.co.jp/news-en/2025_01_10_174316/

[21ej]

Hmm, not sure what to think of this.. I will say the wing looks WAY better than the VA STI wing that everyone installs on the VB. However, I don’t think wings of any kind look that great on this car.
The rear end looks so tall, and the car has the appearance of slimming down as you move towards the front, with the very small headlights. Adding the wing just makes the rear end look that much taller.
Also, people are so against the fender cladding but if you try to imagine the car with no cladding, the rear end would just look like more of a big blob. That cladding helps break it up and make it look proportionate. I didn’t like it at first either, but the needs the fender cladding to look right with this body design.

[Apharmd]

Originally Posted by Pre

Still no Diffs. Still NOT Rick James B!

CVT, no controllable center diff, no front/rear LSDs... this thing is a thumb in the eye to fans, Subaru is totally lost in the sauce.

[YungBoba]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I mean, even looking at the older generations, the S models have been pretty evenly distributed in terms of release date.

S201 (GC) came out in 2000. It was the first one and you can call it an outlier because of that.

GD chassis had S202, S203, S204 which came out in 2002, 2004, and 2005, respectively, and covered all 3 fascias of that chassis. GD ran up through the 2007 model year.

GR/GV had S206 that came out in 2011, smack dab in the middle of that generation's lifespan (2008-2014 model years).

And then VA with S207, S208, and S209 in 2016, 2017, and 2019 respectively, for a generation that ran from 2015 - 2021.

Based on that, I wouldn't call them an "end of generation" type of thing. More of them came out in the first half of the generation's production run than the second half. S210 is the first for the VB but I wouldn't be surprised if we got S211 and S212 for that chassis as well. I certainly don't look at the S210 and think that the VB is at the end of its life by any stretch of the imagination.

[samagon]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Every gen has had an "S" version. This is just the lastest. Thing is, the "S"s most always come at the end of the life of the gen. I am now asking.......what's next?

it's not a matter of where in the lifecycle of the gen that this car is released.

it's that it's a CVT, there's no DCCD, no LSD.

it's whatever, it's only released in Japan, but considering what the S20x was every previous iteration, this really doesn't do anything for that marker.

[WRX4US]

No 5 door.
No diffs.
No torque vectoring.
Less power than the last base STI.
Ugly cladding.
Putting STI and S nomenclature on this sorry excuse is an insult to Subie performance loyalist.

[Gixhost]

Given all the trims provided to the Japanese market this isn't a huge surprise. It's not the first time a Japanese market Subaru has seen 300hp paired with a CVT, guessing for emissions. The car looks good, even the painted black trim is better than unpainted trim...it works for photos and probably for the people who will flock to this and store it away.

In a way it's a win IMO. The FA24 has been pushed to near 300hp in this trim. We know it can do more but Subaru is doing it from the factory and maybe it's a sign of a power bump to come in other markets. It would go a long way to providing more of what people want without much work.

If we can't get a true STI. It still would be nice to see the WRX punching above its weight class. The WRX barely lags behind other vehicles that although comparable are definitely claiming to be more performance focused.

Subaru just needs to keep the price in check and stop being so focused on pushing the WRX up market. Allow proper base trims to allow for entry level prices that are appropriate for the market. Let the product speak for itself. Possibly reassociate the vehicle with the Impreza, stop denying the vehicles roots.

[AVANTI R5]

Video: The Returning Subaru WRX STI Is An Epic Letdown


https://carbuzz.com/video/reveal-sub...-sti-s210-cvt/

[Russ_G93]

DIY S210 For the States:

Buy GT SPT (Auto WRX) ~ 45,000
Buy Brembos ~ 2500-4500
Buy 19in BBS Forged OEM Wheels ~ 5400(4pc)
Buy Intake: ETS ~ 360
Buy Dmann Tune + Cobb Accesport: 150+700 ~ 850-900
Buy Front Only AfterMarket Seats: Recaro Sportster GT Seats ~ 1200x2 = 2400
Buy Swan Wing: AFD Swan ~ 900
Buy Badges off blackhawkjapan(When available) ~ 30-100 (idk)
Buy S210 Grille off blackhawkjapan(When available) ~ 310-320
Buy AFD Painted Flare Kit ~ 1000

Total Expected Cost (My own calc) ~$60,830 (USD) not incl. tax

Bruh. Just buy a Audi S3. But it does seem like this car might be done sooner rather than later, or.... Perhaps, you might see an "emergency refresh" Like what we saw going from a 2009-10 WRX into the 2011-12 WRX. Huge change to body flaring and bumpers. Either way, its obvious Japan is doing this Simulated Gear thing. Look at the New Honda Prelude, doesn't that thing have a Simulated Gear function since its a Hybrid?

Only thing I can go off of is the fact that the 22' SPT hasn't caused any news-worthy headlines of it being a Problem in the WRX (So far that ive seen). Ive heard of more things like people coming to Service for an issue with 2nd/3rd gear for their manual VB.

So here's the thing: If they "Buff" the transmission to handle more power, thats one thing. But if instead, the designers are actually "Brain-locked / apprehensive" on how they can upgrade both their Current transmissions, thats different entirely. That might mean, they don't actually intend the vehicle to be any quicker. That, this is what they targeted originally and weren't going to care otherwise.
Or.. they actually need more money to do all this (R&D costs, trade fees, regs, material cost etc), and in fact they might of been breaking even these past years and are doing the best they can with these skyrocketed costs for everything down to the price of Rubber. They have to make sure their Top three sellers are constantly given R&D money for updates (Crosstrek,Outback,Forester). I imagine you will see things improve drastically for All Car Manufacturers, once the economy starts moving in the right direction again ~ in accordance to Nation law blah blah.

So if its like that, then you can appreciate that the nameplate lives on I guess. Stay Positive, never know what they might have later.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by YungBoba

I mean, even looking at the older generations, the S models have been pretty evenly distributed in terms of release date.

S201 (GC) came out in 2000. It was the first one and you can call it an outlier because of that.

GD chassis had S202, S203, S204 which came out in 2002, 2004, and 2005, respectively, and covered all 3 fascias of that chassis. GD ran up through the 2007 model year.

GR/GV had S206 that came out in 2011, smack dab in the middle of that generation's lifespan (2008-2014 model years).

And then VA with S207, S208, and S209 in 2016, 2017, and 2019 respectively, for a generation that ran from 2015 - 2021.

Based on that, I wouldn't call them an "end of generation" type of thing. More of them came out in the first half of the generation's production run than the second half. S210 is the first for the VB but I wouldn't be surprised if we got S211 and S212 for that chassis as well. I certainly don't look at the S210 and think that the VB is at the end of its life by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah. You are absolutely right. Apologies. My use of "gen" was misplaced. I really meant and should have said at the "end" when they were about to make a change. Maybe this is like the VA where they'll have a couple of them. But, with the amount of EV they are about to bring, I do think the VB is soon to be done. Now, will they have a direct replacement? Or a hiatus until their electrification plans come about. Me. Personally. Am not adverse to a hybrid fun car. I won't likely get sooo squirly that I'd worry about it's weight. Can it produce a smile? I'm mostly easy with that. And after sporting the SPT around the Utah Motorsports Complex. That would be my choice anyway. Clutching has never been THE "fun" factor for me.

Originally Posted by WRX4US

No 5 door.
No diffs.
No torque vectoring.
Less power than the last base STI.
Ugly cladding.
Putting STI and S nomenclature on this sorry excuse is an insult to Subie performance loyalist.

Still funny.

Originally Posted by Gixhost

Given all the trims provided to the Japanese market this isn't a huge surprise. It's not the first time a Japanese market Subaru has seen 300hp paired with a CVT, guessing for emissions. The car looks good, even the painted black trim is better than unpainted trim...it works for photos and probably for the people who will flock to this and store it away.

In a way it's a win IMO. The FA24 has been pushed to near 300hp in this trim. We know it can do more but Subaru is doing it from the factory and maybe it's a sign of a power bump to come in other markets. It would go a long way to providing more of what people want without much work.

If we can't get a true STI. It still would be nice to see the WRX punching above its weight class. The WRX barely lags behind other vehicles that although comparable are definitely claiming to be more performance focused.

Subaru just needs to keep the price in check and stop being so focused on pushing the WRX up market. Allow proper base trims to allow for entry level prices that are appropriate for the market. Let the product speak for itself. Possibly reassociate the vehicle with the Impreza, stop denying the vehicles roots.

Cue SoDealer......whom people are just not listening to. smh

[YungBoba]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Yeah. You are absolutely right. Apologies. My use of "gen" was misplaced. I really meant and should have said at the "end" when they were about to make a change. Maybe this is like the VA where they'll have a couple of them. But, with the amount of EV they are about to bring, I do think the VB is soon to be done. Now, will they have a direct replacement? Or a hiatus until their electrification plans come about. Me. Personally. Am not adverse to a hybrid fun car. I won't likely get sooo squirly that I'd worry about it's weight. Can it produce a smile? I'm mostly easy with that. And after sporting the SPT around the Utah Motorsports Complex. That would be my choice anyway. Clutching has never been THE "fun" factor for me.

No worries and sorry to be that a-hole to play the whole semantics game. My apologies if I came off rude in any way, but I felt it important to point out the release timeline.

The EV point you made is interesting and it's known that they've teased some type of EV STi (STe?) coming in the future. The big unknown is how far along they are in development of that. If it's sooner rather than later then I can see the VB living a short lifespan, but we'll see. I'd love to see it happen soon but Subaru has also been known to move at a snail's pace when it comes to new tech.

Anecdotally, I see a lot of VBs driving around now, but I think another post here in this subforum pointed out that sales are actually down by quite a bit YoY.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by YungBoba

.....Anecdotally, I see a lot of VBs driving around now, but I think another post here in this subforum pointed out that sales are actually down by quite a bit YoY.

My question is how are sales of the rest of the category? WRX was clearly the king the entire time it's been available. Others have waned and disappeared. How are their sales? Sure, some companies are offering some fun cars at limited numbers. Why? Why not offer them in numbers? Is this WRX losing sales because of looks? Price? Or maybe the entire category is just dying?

[Kostamojen]

Everything had issues selling because of the high interest rates. Yes, sales were up versus 2023, but inventory was still impacted in 2023 from the pandemic. Inventory finally caught up in 2024.

But 2024 is still well below previous highs:

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...-vehicle-sales

[bugatti0628]

If anything, the S210 has an important role. We have seen the new ts here in the states. They are developing some brand new STI parts and they are still fine tuning the SPT using the s210 development. We had the TR, and now the TS. I believe subaru is trying to slowly bring back a proper STI to the states. They are literally preparing new STI parts for the next generation or the upcoming refresh. The S210 SPT is tuned to same 277ft lbs we have on the ascent and the the outback xt now, not the current 258ft lbs the USDM wrx has. By the time we get back a full fledged STI, all of the parts they need for it would be developed and tested. Will the wrx refresh come with 296hp, 277ft lbs knowing the tranny has been tested and can handle it when it is released. Will the refreshed ts have the 296hp, 277ft lbs and some newly developed and tested STI parts from the S210. Subaru, use those newly developed and tested STI parts and either keep fine tuning the cvt or develop a new tranny and slowly work them into a brand new STI for the states. You are already slowly developing it, let the USDM reap the reward.

[WRX4US]

https://www.bing.com/images/search?v...t=0&ajaxserp=0

Perhaps I'm not seeing it; but it seems as though the argument for the cladding's "dimples" advantages has been compromised.

[SoDealer]

Originally Posted by bugatti0628

If anything, the S210 has an important role. We have seen the new ts here in the states. They are developing some brand new STI parts and they are still fine tuning the SPT using the s210 development. We had the TR, and now the TS. I believe subaru is trying to slowly bring back a proper STI to the states. They are literally preparing new STI parts for the next generation or the upcoming refresh. The S210 SPT is tuned to same 277ft lbs we have on the ascent and the the outback xt now, not the current 258ft lbs the USDM wrx has. By the time we get back a full fledged STI, all of the parts they need for it would be developed and tested. Will the wrx refresh come with 296hp, 277ft lbs knowing the tranny has been tested and can handle it when it is released. Will the refreshed ts have the 296hp, 277ft lbs and some newly developed and tested STI parts from the S210. Subaru, use those newly developed and tested STI parts and either keep fine tuning the cvt or develop a new tranny and slowly work them into a brand new STI for the states. You are already slowly developing it, let the USDM reap the reward.

No they are not. SPT has always been able to handle 300hp. There's no manual anymore that can do 300hp since they discontinued the STI. The 2025 is the WRX refresh. STI is 100% dead for VB.

[Mr.Impreza.]

I personally think it looks superb. The only issue I have is the CVT only option. That is a disgrace and should not even be an option on the S line cars.

However that being said....I don't even really care in all honesty since we never will get any of the S cars.

Yeah, US got the s209...but Canada got 0.

[SoDealer]

SBR has no problem bastardizing the STI name in Japan. You can get a regular Impreza with STI logos there.

[Kostamojen]

YouTube (Short URL)

YouTube (Short URL)

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by SoDealer

SBR has no problem bastardizing the STI name in Japan. You can get a regular Impreza with STI logos there.

Bastardizing? Please tell me you are using that terminology to satisfy those that just don't understand what STI is.

[Pre]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Sure, some companies are offering some fun cars at limited numbers. Why? Why not offer them in numbers?

You still don’t understand manufacturing or fleet averages. Some, to produce X, takes much longer than a regular model, a lot longer. So the plan in the beginning was limited numbers, before the first one was even sold. So this isn’t some bs pivot for you to ever use. It’s not some cookie cutter model to mass produce, especially when it’s in their specialized factory which requires 10X the amount of time to produce compared to their cookie cutter version. The GRC and CTR were never going to be produced in mass numbers. Neither was the Supra either. Neither was the Golf R either. Everyone seems to know this but Subaru which is why these other companies aren’t losing their ass.

Then fleet averages mean something to a mfr. They don’t want to produce infinite amounts of something that isn’t a truck or a hybrid car, or EV. Watch when the WRX is axed and you’ll understand this.

Another component is younger people, not all but many, aren’t interested, period. They call a 6MT a theft deterrent these days. These same not interested people only care about connectivity and ADAS. They want the vehicle to drive itself so they can play on their 6” my precious the entire drive. Half the people I see driving now are looking down at a phone screen while they drive. Dopamine addicts, social media addicts, to the point it’s a bigger epidemic than opioids. You think they are interested in a performance car of any kind? Only if it’s a Tesla so they can brag on their social medias “Oooh look I got a TESLA BRO!” They live a life of convenience where they want the phone to do everything for them.

There will be few affordable performance anything models left in a few years. Probably the Miata, and whatever Toyota decides to produce. Not going to be much else. A Ford Mustang GT starting price is near $50k now with TTL. Chevy quit producing the Camaro altogether in December 2023. The writing is on the wall, hell it’s on a billboard in “bright blue neon lights with like purple outline.” High priced stuff will remain, close to 6 figures or over it. Affordable stuff is leaving quick. Hell a PP equipped BRZ is what now, $37k to the dampers and Brembos? The train has already left.

Customers told Subaru the changes they needed to make. Make a STI version, with diffs, Aisin 6MT, etc. If just the WRX, cool, fix the rear bumper, make the fender arches full color and get rid of the plastic BS. Perhaps go in another direction with your head unit/controls. They ignored all of that and this is the result. No STi. No 5 door. Just this bastardized thing left and it ain’t selling too well. It’ll be gone for too long soon so you can pivot yet again and start defending the Crosstek or something next.