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02-17-2011, 04:58 PM | #51 | |
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The data to support TS is out there, and there have been plenty of big turbo TS users who back up the claims. Besides there must be something to it, as more and more manufacturers are producing TS kits. Or maybe it is all "hype" and gimmicks I think it is just one of those things that a certain crowd will not buy into until they are hands on themselves, or until there is irrefutable proof that comes from tests that are properly scientific. I can understand and appreciate that. But there is no need to trash a product when there is a lack of said proof either. Back to Jeff's thread. I am stoked that one of the biggest makers of Subie parts will be getting hands on with the EFR.
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02-17-2011, 05:26 PM | #52 | |
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So how much fab. work (if any) is going to be required to 'stuff' that pumpkin in there without having any major clearance issues? |
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02-17-2011, 05:27 PM | #53 |
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Fun Police have arrived. If there is going to be a "war" I'm the one swinging the ban hammer. There is no need to call each other names. There is no need to run around bashing that which others believe. Agree to disagree and lets not be children.
Now because I'm wondering...can someone explain why there was an argument about the results Bariga posted? I can see that the TS setup does get rid of the bend/knee in the power curve up to peak torque. It doesn't seem to affect the peak torque or power values. I can see where that additional area under the curve has its benefits. I can also see where it doesn't make any difference until your rev's drop low enough to slow the transitional response of the turbo. If that happens often you probably have the wrong size turbo for your application. |
02-17-2011, 06:02 PM | #54 | ||
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the turbo with the int wg is say $2000...you pay $2k and you're done.... For TS w/ ext wg you pay $2000 + $300 wg + $300 wg + dump tubes + extra labor to weld on the v-band clamps.....and then you or the fabricator have more fitment issues to worry about.... So you're looking at ~$1000 difference in TS int wg vs TS ext wg Quote:
Although TS setups can make a little more peak hp as the turbine housings are often larger...for instance the EFR 7670 SS housing is 0.83 AR and the TS offerings are 0.92 and 1.03 AR.... Camtuning tested the old BW stuff and made ~10whp more with the smallest TS housing than he did with the SS or larger TS housing..... Last edited by Phatron; 02-17-2011 at 06:08 PM. |
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02-17-2011, 06:20 PM | #55 |
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New pics and comentary are up on first page! I will get to responses in a few here!
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02-17-2011, 06:30 PM | #56 |
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^^ can you take the turbos apart and weigh the rotating mass
interested how the weight of the bearing assembly offsets the super gamma ti wheel... |
02-17-2011, 06:48 PM | #57 | |
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02-17-2011, 07:06 PM | #58 | |
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Either way - these turbos should be awesome and I'm eagerly awaiting results for both SS and TS applications. EDIT: I also just read Ron's explanation of the benefit of TS over SS - it explains the concept quite well and should help those mis/uninformed about these benefits. Last edited by Boosted WRX STi; 02-17-2011 at 07:20 PM. |
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02-17-2011, 07:19 PM | #59 | ||||
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02-17-2011, 07:36 PM | #60 | ||
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So in instances of the EFR7670, it has a 70mm turbine wheel compared to the GT3076R which has a 60mm diameter wheel. BWTS says theirs will be faster responding on the same given engine. In contrast, BW's compressor wheel needs to be smaller in order to compare to Garrett GT wheels. The EFR7670 has a compressor wheel that is 57in/76ex compared to GT3076 which is 57in/76.2ex yet the EFR flows more air. Since BW told me this, the GTX wheels have come out which then levels the playing field there. Last edited by PERRINJeff; 02-18-2011 at 12:09 PM. |
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02-17-2011, 07:57 PM | #61 | |
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yes the shaft will be heavier but since all of its mass in near the center and has no moment arm, it won't affect the moment of inertia much. the larger bearings may have more drag... its like low wheel weight doesn't matter if the rim is heavier on the light wheel. |
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02-17-2011, 09:21 PM | #62 |
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Turbo porn has arrived. Waiting for more than the softcore porn being shown here.
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02-17-2011, 10:05 PM | #63 |
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thanks for this and the gtx thread jeff. they are great, a lot of us really appreciate the hard work!
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02-17-2011, 10:34 PM | #64 |
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02-18-2011, 04:42 AM | #65 |
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Patiently waiting for results!
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02-18-2011, 06:29 AM | #66 |
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02-18-2011, 09:35 AM | #67 |
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I was going to suggest doing the same thing. Just take the hood off and make an extra tall uppipe and fab up the downpipe. |
02-18-2011, 09:44 AM | #68 |
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02-18-2011, 09:46 AM | #69 |
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What is another 12 inches on a 5 foot exhaust, lol.
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02-18-2011, 09:52 AM | #70 |
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02-18-2011, 11:58 AM | #71 |
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If you have ever made your own up-pipe before, you would realize that when having the turbo up high, the exhaust points right at the a/c lines giving not much room to make a down pipe. Even though the exhaust inlet flange to the v- band outlet is not much different than the garrett the whole turbo needs to be pushed back to fit; so the up pipe will need to sit several inches back too, making the issue even worse if not imposable.
Because of how long this turbo is and the waste gate wanting to sit where the frame rail is, I would suggest something like this. http://www.forcedairtechnologies.com...l-turbo-build/ Have a different up-pipe, down pipe and a MAF extension for the efr kit. It would be (o)(o) Yeah, I gave you the pearky ones. |
02-18-2011, 12:00 PM | #72 |
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agree
Last edited by Bariga; 02-27-2011 at 05:15 PM. |
02-18-2011, 12:17 PM | #73 |
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02-18-2011, 12:23 PM | #74 | ||
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Too many numbers flying around in my head! Well its not out of the question to do something like that. My goal is just to prove it works then go from there. |
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02-18-2011, 12:26 PM | #75 |
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Jeff, any reason you didn't get an EWG housing so you don't have to deal with the additional axial length of the IWG housing? From what I can tell the existing turbo kit has an EWG anyway.
If you use the shorter exhaust housing now you only have to contend with the huge axial length of the CHRA, lol |
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