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Old 04-05-2002, 09:40 PM   #1
Jeff 2.5RS
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Question Kind of Odd DMS Problem

I recently installed the M2 DMS gold suspension, when I first got it in I had horrible negative camber, like -3.0 something in the front and near equal in the rear. We kinda of fixed that at the alignment shop but only through using different bolts, I now have -1 degree in the rear and -1.2 in the front but without those bolts I'll have at least -2.5in the rear, and of course even with the new camber settings my kuhmo victoracers (225/50/16) rub on the spring and spring perch, my 225/45/17 S0-3's don't rub while the car is still but I think that under hard cornering they will almost certaintly rub. Has anyone else had this sort of problem? Any suggestion on what to look for? I do have the washer at full positive camber but I can't get rid of all that negative camber. Thanks in advance for any help.
-Jeff
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Last edited by Jeff 2.5RS; 04-05-2002 at 10:16 PM.
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Old 04-05-2002, 11:30 PM   #2
Akiata
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did you take it to a good shop? A "race" shop?

I have the same suspension and when I installed mine the driver side rear had a lot of negative camber. When it was still up in the air it already rubbed the spring. I had to turn that offset washer more positive to fix it. Maybe DMS is having some quality issues or the attachment points on the car are longer/shorter on some cars. (not likely)

The only way for the tires to rub the springs is the camber bolts (or offset washers) to be REALLY negative. Or the holes for them are not it the correct spot.

You do want negative camber. My race tires have worn really weird, only one half of the tire is wearing away and the other side is pretty much new (with stock suspension set to full negative camber). To get full use out of the tires I need more camber. I haven't put them on with the new suspension but I will this weekend sometime to see if they will rub.

Have you tried calling M2? They always answer their phone.

Hope that helps.

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Old 04-05-2002, 11:56 PM   #3
Patrick Olsen
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Default Re: Kind of Odd DMS Problem

Quote:
Originally posted by Jeff 2.5RS
I do have the washer at full positive camber but I can't get rid of all that negative camber. Thanks in advance for any help.
-Jeff
Which camber washers are you using? Black or gold? If you're using the gold ones, you need to get some black ones to try and take out some of that camber.

With that said, it sounds to me like something is wrong. I have yet to hear of anybody needing to use the offset washers in the positive direction to reduce camber. I'm at about -1.6deg in the rear with the gold washers at max negative. I'm guessing the black washers would put me over -2.0deg, but then I'd have tire clearance problems (I'm very close with 215/45-17s as it is now).

Pat Olsen
'97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan
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Old 04-06-2002, 01:19 AM   #4
Jeff 2.5RS
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I took it to a recommended race shop, I know I want negative camber I would really want something in line of -1.5 in the rear but even with only -1 it rubs we just raised it to about stock height which stopped the rubbing (with 225/50/16 kuhmos) but now whenever I life off the gas after wot the whole damned car vibrates, not fun. Honestly the front isn't too bad it's the rear. I'm using the gold washers and know, after what we had to do at the alignment shop that the black ones wouldn't help enough, I'll try contacting M2 tomorrow but I'm sure they're closed on saturday. I'm frusterating enought to scream right now I'm supposed to be going to a race school tomorrow, and now can't go, well I could but it wouldn't be worth it. Needless to say my planned day of racing fun will now be probably replaced by putting my stock suspension back on
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Old 04-07-2002, 08:50 PM   #5
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Small update to this problem...I decided to go ahead and go to the race school this weekend and the most interesting thing happened, my alignment changed seemingly at it's own will. Some time I would have negative camber and then sometimes not, it was seemingly random, anyway just one last bump and update. I'm probably going to install my stock suspension tomorrow. Oh and you haven't lived until you're going through a 70mph left hand sweeper and you're car suddenly goes toe out, it's......interesting.
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Old 04-07-2002, 09:33 PM   #6
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that sounds like the upperbolt is loose so the strut can go positive or negitive. who did the install>? i'd have a few words with them...
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Old 04-08-2002, 12:04 AM   #7
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It could also be that those specialized camber bolts are loose.
Also, for the rear strut, there is a spacer that goes between the top spring cap and the top hat. If that spacer is in the wrong place, it has been known to cause camber issues (ie between the strut and the top spring cap.
Same for the front struts, there is a set of washer spacers that go on top of the spring cap.
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Old 04-08-2002, 12:40 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by [email protected]
that sounds like the upperbolt is loose so the strut can go positive or negitive.
I'd make a 5mph crawl off the track, then go smack the alignment guy.
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Old 04-09-2002, 12:06 AM   #9
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I have a similar problem with my 50mm DMS, but my neg camber is already under control. You always have to get an allignment after a suspension install, but I had managed to eyeball it to within half a degree of what I wanted (only found that out at the shop). Everything is installed properly and I have stock wheels with stock size tires, but I still get contact between the tire and the spring. I only see about 2 to 3 mm of clearance between the tire and the spring on flat ground, so like the guy above I'm sure I'm getting more rubbing under hard cornering. I've decided to go for a 5mm wheel spacer made by H&R, but I haven't gotten them yet.

Did you ever get anything resolved?

Alex
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Old 04-09-2002, 12:43 AM   #10
Jeff 2.5RS
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Yeah I got the issue resolved...I took them off, stock suspension in back in. Honestly there was something very wrong with them, a manufactur error or whatnot because -3 degrees of unfixable negative camber has never shown up on the other dms installs I've seen.
Right now though I'll probably be sending them back, I just don't really want to mess with them anymore, I'll be going with something made for the wrx next time, instead of made for the GC8 and then adapted for the GDA by simply using different top mounts. No offense to dms I know there stuff is of high quality, and it's an error to assume my one bad experience speaks for everyone with their dms suspension, but my 2.5RS had valveing (sp?) problems and so did a friend of mines. Now with this problem I'm going to surrender to my own bad luck, and figure out something else to do.
-Jeff
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Old 04-10-2002, 04:56 PM   #11
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I have had the exact same rubbing issue on the front and rear running M2 DMS golds and 225/50/16 (stock rims). For the front fix I run the full positive camber on the stock eccentric bolt to get about 1/8" clearance between the spring and the tire. For the rear I used the black washers full positive and that was not enough. I then purchased some eccentric bolts from an alignment shop and used them on the lower strut bolt. This provides me with a ~1/8-1/16" clearance for the rear spring and the tire. I don't like using two alignment adjustments on one strut, but for the time being it will have to do. I want to get a new alignment (the car drives fine for the time being with my current eyeball alignment), but I want to wait until I get a hold of M2 or DMS to maybe find a better solution.

peace
Ian

edit# I just talked to M2 and they stated that they recommend 225/45/17, 7.5" width and 48mm rim offset (I have some coming). They do not recommend the 225/50/16s for this application. I also asked about my choice to use two forms of Camber adjustments on the same strut and they stated that it would be fine as long as they are torqued to the right spec. So using the 225/50/16s should be fine with two forms of alignment on the rear strut. I plan on running a stock sized all-season tire on my stock rims as soon as I get my 17s.

Last edited by brogliei; 04-10-2002 at 05:12 PM.
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