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Old 02-05-2013, 09:24 PM   #326
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so the "math problem" is security, not make-work?
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Old 02-05-2013, 09:59 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt K View Post
so the "math problem" is security, not make-work?
Yes.

And therein lies some of the genius in the design. Mining is profitable and many miners are driven by greed. Bitcoin uses the greed of miners as an ever increasing security mechanism. Miners are constantly competing with each other for an edge, and that drives the technology to become more and more powerful and efficient.

The thread bump earlier today was in reference to some of the first hardware available that is using chips designed specifically for bitcoin mining. That $1500 box using ~600W of power has the same mining speed as a cluster of ~100 Radeon HD 7970 GPUs burning ~20000W of power.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:13 PM   #328
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A lot of bitcoin news lately.

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Myths

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nassim Taleb
Bitcoin is the beginning of something great: a currency without a government, something necessary and imperative. But I am not familiar with the specific product to assert whether it is the best potential setup. And we need a long time to establish confidence. I only talk from skin-in-the-game. If I had money in bitcoin, I would have reported it. But I don't yet. I am waiting to understand it better, not with my brain, but with my experience.

Man offers to sell house for bitcoins




Dotcom: Mega now accepts bitcoin payments
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:23 PM   #329
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Seeing Taleb interested in bitcoin is huge.

The big news this week though is FinCEN. They finally gave guidance for businesses involved in virtual currencies and what they need to do to comply with regulations. In doing so they have essentially confirmed that bitcoin itself is not considered illegal, opening the floodgates for businesses that have been waiting on the sidelines -
http://bitcoinmagazine.com/fincen-bi...exchanges-are/

At the same time, Europeans are seeing a frightening future for the Euro and governments are starting to murmur about price controls, leading to a huge surge of interest in bitcoin -
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2013-0...un-has-started

Al Gore mentioned he likes bitcoin -
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comm...ect_2013_im_a/

Ashton Kutcher invested in a bitcoin startup -
http://betabeat.com/2013/03/startup-...ds-for-cancer/

Namecheap accepts bitcoin payments -
http://thenextweb.com/insider/2013/0...t-via-bitcoin/

Reddit accepts/supports bitcoin -
http://techcrunch.com/2013/02/14/red...with-coinbase/

Wordpress, etc. The list is going to grow.


And, of course, the market - 1 bitcoin is currently trading at $74! Bubble or not, the ball is now rolling...
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:25 PM   #330
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Seeing Taleb interested in bitcoin is huge.
Quote:
a currency without a government, something necessary and imperative
feels

You know we used to have something like that, what was it called again? Oh yeah, gold.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:03 PM   #331
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Gold is for old guys who still print newsletters out of their basement. Nobody actually knows how much gold there is or who actually has gold and how much. Gold can also be confiscated (it has happened before) and you can't very easily and privately send it to someone on the other side of the world.

Bitcoin is better than gold... at least until a major flaw in the system is discovered and exploited!
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:06 PM   #332
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I'm just talking about a true free currency, one with no government and a limited amount. Properties they both share. Both have their uses, and one shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:07 PM   #333
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Originally Posted by RastaMon View Post
I'm just talking about a true free currency, one with no government and a limited amount. Properties they both share. Both have their uses, and one shouldn't put all their eggs in one basket.
How is it a limited amount if computers can basically generate new currency all day every day?
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:09 PM   #334
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Originally Posted by cwb124 View Post
How is it a limited amount if computers can basically generate new currency all day every day?
as a dovetail; isnt gold mined daily as well?
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:10 PM   #335
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as a dovetail; isnt gold mined daily as well?
Yep..
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:12 PM   #336
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How is it a limited amount if computers can basically generate new currency all day every day?
Um, I thought it maxed out at 21 million.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX300 View Post
as a dovetail; isnt gold mined daily as well?
Sure, but there's only an X amount on Earth at any given time, thus fixed. Unless we start mining golden asteroids or something.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:12 PM   #337
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^total "whole" coins may be capped at 21M but there can be endless fractional results

so then really neither are finite currencies? btc ends up being fractional and the gold supply is ever increasing. I was just reading an article talking about how earth quakes 'seed' fault lines with gold deposits....

edit: my mtgox wallet is currently showing

Quote:
Your wallet: 0.00005483 BTC
so yeah, endless divisions.

Last edited by WRX300; 03-21-2013 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 03-21-2013, 11:16 PM   #338
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US Begins Regulating BitCoin, Will Apply "Money Laundering" Rules To Virtual Transactions

Last November, in an act of sheer monetary desperation, the ECB issued an exhaustive, and quite ridiculous, pamphlet titled "Virtual Currency Schemes" in which it mocked and warned about the "ponziness" of such electronic currencies as BitCoin. Why a central bank would stoop so "low" to even acknowledge what no "self-respecting" (sic) PhD-clad economist would even discuss, drunk and slurring, at cocktail parties, remains a mystery to this day. However, that it did so over fears the official artificial currency of the insolvent continent, the EUR, may be becoming even more "ponzi" than the BitCoins the ECB was warning about, was clear to everyone involved who saw right through the cheap propaganda attempt. Feel free to ask any Cypriot if they would now rather have their money in locked up Euros, or in "ponzi" yet freely transferable, unregulated BitCoins.

For the answer, we present the chart showing the price of BitCoin in EUR terms since the issuance of the ECB's paper:



Therein, sadly, lies the rub.

As central banks have been able to manipulate the price of precious metals for decades, using a countless plethora of blatant and not so blatant trading techniques, whether involving "banging the close", abusing the London AM fix, rehypothecating and leasing out claims on gold to short and re-short the underlying, creating paper gold exposure out of thin air with which to suppress deliverable prices, or simply engaging in any other heretofore unknown illegal activity, the parabolic surge in gold and silver has, at least for the time being - and especially since the infamous, and demoralizing May 1, 2011 silver smackdown - lost its mojo.

But while precious metals have been subject to price manipulation by the legacy establishment, even if ultimately the actual physical currency equivalent asset, its "value" naively expressed in some paper currency, may be in the possession of the beholder, to date no price suppression or regulation schemes of virtual currencies existed.

It was thus only a matter of time before the same establishment was forced to make sure that money leaving the traditional M0/M1/M2/M3 would not go into alternative electronic currency venues, but would instead be used to accelerate the velocity of the money used by the legacy, and quite terminal, monetary system.

After all, what if not pushing savers to spend, spend, spend and thus boost the money in circulation, was the fundamental purpose of the recent collapse in faith in savings held with European banks?

So, as we had long expected, the time when the global Keynesian status quo refocused its attention from paper gold and silver prices, to such "virtual" currencies as BitCoin has finally arrived.

The WSJ reports that, "the U.S. is applying money-laundering rules to "virtual currencies," amid growing concern that new forms of cash bought on the Internet are being used to fund illicit activities. The move means that firms that issue or exchange the increasingly popular online cash will now be regulated in a similar manner as traditional money-order providers such as Western Union Co. They would have new bookkeeping requirements and mandatory reporting for transactions of more than $10,000. Moreover, firms that receive legal tender in exchange for online currencies or anyone conducting a transaction on someone else's behalf would be subject to new scrutiny, said proponents of Internet currencies.

And just like that, there goes a major part of the allure of all those virtual currencies such as BitCoin that consumers had turned to, and away from such rapidly devaluing units of exchange as the dollar and euro. Because if there was one medium of exchange that was untouched, unregulated, and unmediated by the US government and other authoritarian, despotic regimes around the insolvent "developed world", it was precisely transactions involving BitCoin.

That is no longer the case, as the bloodhound of the Federal Reserve has now turned its attention toward BitCoin, and will not stop until it crashes both its value to end-users, and its utility, in yet another attempt to force the USD, and other fiat, upon global consumers as the only forms of allowed legal tender.

More from the WSJ:

Quote:
The rising popularity of virtual currencies, while no more than a drop in the bucket of global liquidity, is being fueled by Internet merchants, as well as users' concerns about privacy, jitters about traditional currencies in Europe and the age-old need to move money for illicit purposes.

The arm of the Treasury Department that fights money laundering said Monday that the standard federal banking rules aimed at suspicious dollar transfers also apply to firms that issue or exchange money that isn't linked to any government and exists only online.
Naturally, the actual object of US monetary persecution, is BitCoin:

Quote:
"We are beyond the stage where this was just funny money and a fun online thing. This is used as a currency," said Nicolas Christin, associate director of Carnegie Mellon University's Information Networking Institute.

Bitcoins can be used in a host of legitimate transactions—for example, website Reddit allows users to upgrade services using bitcoins and blog service Wordpress.com's store accepts them as a form of payment. Pizzaforcoins.com also lets bitcoin savers pay for deliveries through Domino's and other pizzerias.
The problem with virtual currencies is that defining what is permitted in a narrow regulatory sense, is impossible, which is why any definition will be as broad as possible: after all what better way to spook users than to make virtually any transaction borderline illegal:

Quote:
Creating clear-cut rules for virtual currencies is difficult. A FinCen official said that anti-money-laundering rules would apply depending on the "factors and circumstances" of each business. The rules don't apply to individuals who simply use virtual currencies to purchase real or virtual goods.

The new guidance "clarifies definitions and expectations to ensure that businesses…are aware of their regulatory responsibilities," said Jennifer Shasky Calvery, FinCen director.

The FBI report last year said Bitcoin attracts cybercriminals who want to move or steal funds. "Bitcoin might also logically attract money launderers and other criminals who avoid traditional financial systems by using the Internet to conduct global monetary transfers," the report said. An FBI spokeswoman declined to comment when asked about the agency's concerns regarding virtual currencies.
We were not the only ones to expect imminent intervention from Big Brother:

Quote:
Some firms say they anticipated the rules. Charlie Sherm, chief executive of bitcoin payment processor BitInstant, said his company is already compliant.

Mr. Christin of Carnegie Mellon said that he believes Bitcoin's dominant use right now is speculation.

"When you have a commodity or currency whose value has grown as rapidly as Bitcoin it makes sense to hold on to it as a speculative instrument," he said. It also is commonly used for online black markets or gambling sites. "Whether used for money laundering…there is no smoking gun."
As to the question of timing - why now - the answer is simple. Europe. After all, it was only yesterday that we wrote that "In Spain, The Bitcoin Run Has Started." It is self-explanatory that if such an exodus away from legacy currencies and into BitCoin was left unchecked, more and more people would follow suit, which is why it had to be intercepted as early as possible.

Quote:
The jump in the bitcoin exchange rate this week also coincides with concerns euros could be taken from retail bank accounts in Cyprus to fund a bailout. Internet blogs say speculators are looking toward currency alternatives.
Well, if internet blogs say... Of course, internet blogs also say that if and when the fascination with virtual currencies fizzles, all those who are disgusted with the abuse of fiat will not cease from seeking USD, EUR, JPY, GBP and CHF alternatives, but will merely go back to the safety of having hard assets as a currency, namely silver and gold, instead of electronic ones and zeroes, which the US government, in all its Orwellian benevolence may one day, for lack of a better word, hack right out of existence.

On the other hand, the regime's desperation is reaching such a level that a Executive Order 6102-type confiscation of all hard asset currencies may not be far behind.

Because forewarned, is forearmed.
****ing banking cartels
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Old 03-22-2013, 03:20 PM   #339
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this is why we can't have nice things

Quote:
A libertarian nightmare: Bitcoin meets Big Government

What’s not to like about Bitcoin, every libertarian’s favorite crypto-currency?

For starters, Bitcoins are as cyberpunk as William Gibson’s wildest dream: a form of monetary exchange invented in 2009 by a mysterious character who called himself “Satoshi Nakamoto” but then disappeared from view after unleashing his virtual currency upon the world. Bitcoins are undeniably cool: marvelously “mined” from the ore of computer processing power and electricity; more ready for prime time than any previous experiment in purely digital money. And Bitcoins, increasingly, are a success. At a Thursday afternoon all-time-high valuation of $72 per Bitcoin, there were around $700 million worth of Bitcoins in circulation. People are using Bitcoins to buy real goods and services, to hedge against European financial calamity, and to score drugs. That’s money.

Over the years, Bitcoin has experienced ups and downs; the currency has been targeted by hackers and thieves and botnets and been victim to more than one embarrassing software glitch. But it has persevered, and this week, one can fairly say that Bitcoin came of age. On Monday, the U.S. Treasury’s Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN) released its first “guidance” as to how “de-centralized virtual currencies” should fit into the larger regulatory regime under which currencies of all kinds are required to operate. The word “Bitcoin” is never mentioned in FinCEN’s release, but that’s just a technicality. Everyone in the Bitcoin community knew who the guidance was aimed at. Bitcoin is a big boy now. The State is paying attention.

But while some observers have applauded FinCEN’s guidance as acknowledgment that Bitcoin isn’t illegal or considered a “threat” by the government, not everyone is cheering the news. Because there’s a problem here. Bitcoin isn’t just an elegant way to create money using peer-to-peer networks and cryptography. Bitcoin is a currency with an ideology. From the beginning, Bitcoin was envisioned as a form of monetary exchange that didn’t need third-party financial institutions or central banks or even governments to validate it or back it up. Bitcoin is the fulfillment of a libertarian dream, a currency created out of the workings of the free market, unaffiliated with any state authority, respectful and protective of user privacy and anonymity, and designed to resist inflationary pressures. By its very nature, Bitcoin is made for people who don’t want other people to know what they are doing.

“Bitcoin,” says financial pundit Max Keiser, “is the currency of resistance.”

That’s all fine and dandy, but then here comes the government with its strong suggestion that any organization that facilitates the exchange of Bitcoins into other non-virtual currencies needs to register with the proper authorities and start keeping a lot of bureaucratic paperwork. How does that fit in with the idea of “resistance”?

Not very well, as we can learn from one Redditor who chastised his fellow Bitcoin fans for celebrating the legitimacy conferred upon Bitcoin by FinCEN’s guidance.

From this situation to total government tracking of money flows and zero possibility to escape their theft, it is but a small step. The tax farmers have co-opted all of you into even more total servitude. But you celebrate that. How servile.

Sigh. Slave-minded idiots, nearly all of you, naively happy because the eye of Sauron has finally locked its sight on you, celebrating defeat as if it was a victory, cheering like mad cows as your farmers line all of you up at the slaughterhouse. May you get the cages you foolishly cheered for.

Mr. Eye of Sauron might be a little overheated, but there’s a nugget of sense buried in his rage. There’s a contradiction at the heart of Bitcoin. The more popular Bitcoin gets, whether as a symbol of resistance or a perceived safe haven in financially troubled times, the more government attention it will inevitably draw, and the more inexorably it will be sucked into existing regulatory structures. Incomes denominated in Bitcoins will be taxed. Efforts at money laundering will be cracked down upon. It’s the price of success. Resistance is futile.

* * *

The Bitcoin moment is right now. Two weeks ago, at the very end of a SXSW presentation on 3-D gun printing, Defense Distributed founder Cody Wilson encouraged his audience to take a look at what was happening with Bitcoin. Just in the last two weeks, he said, Bitcoin had “exploded.”

And it’s true, over the last four weeks, Bitcoin has repeatedly broken its all time record in terms of how much a single Bitcoin can be exchanged for another currency. Some observers have attributed this to the growing number of vendors — including WordPress and Reddit — that are willing to take payments in Bitcoins. Others point to the financial distress in Cyprus: Bitcoins are the new gold — a hedge against inflation and government appropriation. Others see what’s happening as little more than a classic bubble in the making, and are scrambling to get out before it pops.

Whatever the explanation, Bitcoin’s profile has never been higher, and the overheated rhetoric is keeping pace.
Cody Wilson, who reportedly raised $17,000 in Bitcoins to help fund his organization’s purchase of a high-end 3-D printer, was clearly delighted at Bitcoin’s surge when he spoke at SXSW. For him, there’s an obvious synergy between the virtual, non-government affiliated currency and his own plans to undermine the power of the state everywhere and enact practical anarchy in the world by distributing the power to 3-D print your own assault weapons. In one of his most recent over-the-top promotional videos, Wilson declares that to realize his organization’s goals, “we’ll need the Bitcoin. These days holding dollars is a political choice.” Elsewhere, he has described his vision as “a future of federal communities and slowly disintegrating and reactionary states. It is imperative to begin using cryptocurrencies and private commerce to starve these beasts.”

You won’t find a more explicit call to see Bitcoin as a technology for liberation than Wilson’s. You would imagine, then, that he would be disappointed to hear about FinCEN’s “guidance” suggesting that all Bitcoin entities that exchange Bitcoins for non-virtual currencies must register with the government. So much for starving the beast — a few more steps down that trail, and Bitcoin will be in the belly of the beast!

But Wilson’s faith in the free market and the Internet is so profound that he shrugs off any accommodation that Bitcoin might make with the government by expressing his faith that “when the currency becomes captive to regulatory interests, a competing currency and genesis code will take the lead.” Just as the Internet’s structure makes it impossible to stop the sharing of code or music or 3-D gun printing designs, so too will it enable the endless upwelling of alternative currencies.

But that view seems to miss something fundamental about what makes a currency work. Enough people have to buy into it, so to speak, that people and entities will accept it in exchange for goods and services, or convert it into other forms of legal tender, or employ it as an investment vehicle. It has to be useful, in other words, and true usefulness requires scale.

But scale inevitably attracts attention. Like it or not, the state will not sit idly by if vast sums of drug money start getting money laundered through Bitcoins, or if a significant enough stream of tax dollars starts getting diverted into the Bitcoin ether. Just try to avoid paying taxes on the proceeds of those 3-D-printed guns you are selling to all and sundry. The Eye of Sauron will come looking. In fact, it already has, as proven by FinCEN’s Monday release. Welcome to the real world, Bitcoin.
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Old 03-22-2013, 07:53 PM   #340
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http://www.rally-america.com/info/20...ook_Online.pdf

Quote:
Alberta man to sell home for Bitcoin virtual currency

by Lauren O'Neil Posted: March 22, 2013 5:06 PM Last Updated: March 22, 2013 5:43 PM



It's not often that Canadian real estate listings make international headlines, but a mid-sized Alberta bungalow has people around the world buzzing today after its owner declared that he would like to sell it -- for Bitcoins.

If successful, 22-year-old entrepreneur Taylor More would be the first person ever to accept the fast-rising virtual currency in exchange for property.

"My home is being traded for Bitcoins!" reads the listing for More's "quaint" two bedroom home in Crowsnest Pass, Alberta. "Properties like this rarely come on the market and this one's priced to sell in one of the most sought after recreation areas of the Rockies."

The property is listed for $405,000 CDN, but More writes that "the price can be reduced" if a buyer has some Bitcoins to spare.


It will cost you 5,362 Bitcoin, or $405,000 to buy this two-bedroom home in Southwest Alberta. (Taylor More / Forsalebyowner.ca)

Bitcoin, a cryptographically secure peer-to-peer virtual currency first introduced in 2009, allows people to send money from anywhere to anywhere without restriction.

Unlike the dollar or other currencies, Bitcoins aren't issued by a bank and don't exist physically. This makes transactions notoriously difficult to track - a feature valued by users who want or need privacy.

While initially linked to "dark web" trading sites like online drug marketplace Silk Road, Bitcoin has been growing in mainstream popularity, both online and in the physical world.

Pizzaforcoins.com allows people to order food from Domino's using the currency, while an office space rental company in Toronto now accepts Bitcoins for rent. Earlier this year, a team of American entrepreneurs developed the first dollar-converting Bitcoin ATM, prompting many to write about whether or not the currency will ever go mainstream.

According to Bloomberg, Bitcoin is the world's most widely-used alternative currency, with a monetary base valued at over $600 million USD.

One Bitcoin is currently valued at about $75 Cdn, making the value of More's house approximately 5,362 Bitcoins.

"Bitcoins are really hard to get your hands on if you want to get them in large quantities," he told the BBC when asked why he decided to accept the currency for his home. "I have a couple projects that I want to get started, and they will take a lot of Bitcoins."


*I have a couple projects that I want to get started, and they will take a lot of Bitcoins." = Pot farm
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Old 03-22-2013, 08:31 PM   #341
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So, what's the Rally America connection here?
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:32 AM   #342
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When Bitcoins wreck the world economy. Will they be worth more or less than Nuka Cola bottle caps?
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Old 03-23-2013, 11:47 AM   #343
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An issue that I see is unlike things like silver, if our internet network infrastructure were to crash down bitcoins would become worthless.
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Old 03-23-2013, 12:22 PM   #344
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Originally Posted by kinkinhood View Post
An issue that I see is unlike things like silver, if our internet network infrastructure were to crash down bitcoins would become worthless.
If that were to happen. "Bitcoins are now worthless" would be #10467 on the list of why the world is completely screwed
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Old 03-23-2013, 01:57 PM   #345
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BitCoin Star Caps?

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Originally Posted by Furiousd1983 View Post
When Bitcoins wreck the world economy. Will they be worth more or less than Nuka Cola bottle caps?
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Old 03-23-2013, 02:59 PM   #346
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Originally Posted by Furiousd1983 View Post
When Bitcoins wreck the world economy. Will they be worth more or less than Nuka Cola bottle caps?
Wreck? Don't you mean fix? I mean it's not like our **** is working right now.
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Old 03-28-2013, 01:43 PM   #347
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:04 PM   #348
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:16 PM   #349
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Bitcoins Go Parabolic
Quote:
In the last 48 hours, the price of the virtual currency has surged by 50% from $94 to $141 as the rate of expansion goes more than parabolic. This leaves us with the question, which line item on the Fed's Balance Sheet is 'Virtual Currency Transactions'... what better way to destroy an up and coming currency competitor than to blow a bubble in it and explode it?

That is a 14x rise since the start of the year...

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Old 04-03-2013, 07:18 PM   #350
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Sell! Sell! Sell!
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