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Old 09-06-2015, 03:26 AM   #26
helmspeedfab
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The over all design and fit of the kit looks great, but the welds are def fused with pedal control and no filler. While is some cases it would be ok for more aesthetic parts, but I also agree, those welds will not take the heat and weight, using some 304 filler would help keep the strength up. Also being sure to back purge is a must on any stainless
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:29 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jellenberg View Post
So you're saying it would be better to get something mandrel bent? I could ask him about that but I don't think he does that. The shop it's still relatively small right now and I think he really only does pie cut pieces. Those pictures were from a few years ago so I'm sure the technique has improved, but I'll talk to him about it
Since the work is done in mockup, you could take basically two routes. Every one of the welds could be done again (this time with filler and a continuous weld), or the pieces could be sent to a shop that does mandrel bends to match the same sizes. Certainly the first option would be cheaper, however the mandrel bends will allow better flow and will cut down on potential issues in the future.

While the actual weld will (when performed properly) be as strong as the original material, there is still a significant heat stress being added. In almost every instance, it is in the heat scarred area that will develop cracks. Then consider the hardness of stainless and you have a pretty high potential for problems.

Sure, stainless welds awesome, looks pretty, and resists corrosion, but it also has a has its limitations. (There is a reason, besides cost, that oem manufacturers use cast iron for cars they intend to be driven for over 100k. It holds up great to repeated high heat cycles and the abuse of the exhaust jackhammer our engines double for).

If it were me, I would ask him to do the welds over but this time properly. If you have issues, you can pull the pipes and have it built again since you have all the dimensions.
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:31 PM   #28
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Also, I am frankly surprised the parts were given to you like that. The guy clearly has skills in fabrication so unless he is a novice welder or has basically no experience with exhaust components it does not make a lot of sense to me
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Old 09-06-2015, 01:35 PM   #29
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Well those are not my actual parts, those are from a similar build he did a few years back. My car us getting dropped off at his shop tomorrow so that he can start the fab process. Would you recommend a different material or anything? Just looking for any advice to make this kit last as long as possible. I have no welding experience though, so most of your lingo is way above my head lol
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:04 PM   #30
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The material is fine just should be adding fill rod as he is tig welding and everything should be back purged on the inside as welding is done.
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Old 09-06-2015, 04:48 PM   #31
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Well those are not my actual parts, those are from a similar build he did a few years back. My car us getting dropped off at his shop tomorrow so that he can start the fab process. Would you recommend a different material or anything? Just looking for any advice to make this kit last as long as possible. I have no welding experience though, so most of your lingo is way above my head lol
Sorry, I thought it was yours in the pictures.

I would ask for a quote using mandrel bent pipes and another quote with the pie cut. Either way you go, make sure the welds look something like:



Notice how the welds are stacked much closer and overlap at least 50%. Also notice how they appear to almost sit on top of the two pipes. This slightly convex shape is ideal and can be done in a single pass but often done on heavy wall tubing in two passes (root and final/finish).

On thin wall tubing like exhaust, the weld will look more like:

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Old 09-06-2015, 07:20 PM   #32
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Alright, thank you for the replies! The issue is, he's a pretty small shop still and I don't think he has a mandrel bender so as far as I'm aware, he only does pie cuts. I thought about fronting him some money so that he could get what he needs, but it looks like the equipment is really expensive lol. I'll talk to him some more about the welding and see how he does things tomorrow
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Old 09-06-2015, 08:13 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jellenberg View Post
Alright, thank you for the replies! The issue is, he's a pretty small shop still and I don't think he has a mandrel bender so as far as I'm aware, he only does pie cuts. I thought about fronting him some money so that he could get what he needs, but it looks like the equipment is really expensive lol. I'll talk to him some more about the welding and see how he does things tomorrow
A mandrel bender is not required:

http://pypesexhaust.com/c-702473-acc...bent-pipe.html
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Old 09-06-2015, 08:18 PM   #34
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Hmmm forgive the ignorance lol, but you would basically just buy pre bent pieces and weld the flanges on it? It doesn't look like they have a huge selection
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Old 09-06-2015, 08:34 PM   #35
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Your fab guy will still need to cut at the right points and do the mockup. The bends end up being smooth and a lot less welding required. Yes, the flanges also get welded to the ends
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Old 09-16-2015, 12:36 PM   #36
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Finally got the engine dropped in and brought it down to Denver for z fab to turn into a monster!





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Old 09-29-2015, 12:22 PM   #37
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svltrack is making some good points, there are puckers all over those welds. It looks like there is some undercutting where the EWG stub hits the up-pipe too. Also of note is the lack of penetration, which you can see on the inside of the dump tube. Look for this in other areas as it is paramount to structural integrity of the weldment. When penetration is not 100% you are starting with a crack, which inevitably leads to more cracking. Assuming proper purge, penetration, and technique the inside should look like this...

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Old 09-30-2015, 03:19 PM   #38
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Rather than making a bend with 10 pie cut sections, why doesn't that dude just buy some mandrel bent "U's" or "L's" from summit or something, and cut the full bend out?
I built a custom set of headers for a big block that had to wrap around the frame and then turn under the car and I bought mandrel bends from summit. It's actually not that expensive and then you just saw cut out whatever portion of a bend you want.
No doubt a full mandrel bend is best, but that's why it's so expensive too. This way rather than having 10 joints in a curve you could have 2.

And for the guy to have a complete continuous bead for someone in a small shop is nearly impossible. No person can do that without a rotary fixture.
Some of these pics of ultra perfect welds look like they came off mechanized fixtures, or maybe even semi automatic also.
I work in a facility where this type of thing is done daily, and guys use rotary fixtures in conjunction with automatic welding (basically fixtures that also hold the torches stationary or travelling, depending on the job).
No person can free hand a weld 360 degrees around something and never stop to re-position. That wouldn't be a realistic expectation from a small shop guy, I sympathize with him.

Last edited by rtv900; 09-30-2015 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:21 PM   #39
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We're actually planning on doing mandrel bent now because we both prefer it. He only does pie cuts upon request apparently, which the guy in that example kit wanted
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:52 PM   #40
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yeah I'd think he would love that idea, it will reduce welding time by 90%

his welds didn't look too bad to me
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Old 09-30-2015, 03:54 PM   #41
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I don't think they look bad, he's doing it at a great price and putting a warranty on his work so I'm not too nervous. I'll post pictures as they're made for sure though!
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Old 10-24-2015, 01:13 PM   #42
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Alright, I figured I'd post a little update since its been a while. I have been trying to figure out how to plumb the wastegates and EBCS together to make it work flawlessly, as well as making it look clean. Well I contacted Grimmspeed on the Facebook page and talked to Matt, He gave me great customer service and was a great help. He helped me figure out a good plan that would work well with this custom setup. (who would've thought I'd have to even modify a simple mod for this build lol)

So we started out with the Grimmspeed EBCS.


Then we decided that it would be best if I bought Cobb's EWG fitting kit so that I could upgrade my fittings to the larger 1/4" fittings for better wastegate control since I'm running dual 38's. He also pointed out that I could just run a hose directly from port 2 to the bottom of the first wastegate and then out of another port, directly into the second wastegate, instead of having to "T" the fittings (thanks Matt)




He also helped me figure out what to do with port 1. Normally this port goes directly to a fitting on the turbo inlet, but my intake wont have those fittings to keep things clean. He pointed me in the direction of where I could buy a mini filter to put on Port 1 so that I could keep the solenoid free of debris and dust so that it would continue to function properly. So this little guy called a Sintered muffler/filter with a 1/8 NPT thread will be going on port 1.



The next part to figure out is where to tap into for port 3 on the EBCS. Normally this hooks up to the little fitting on the compressor outlet, but my GTX3076R doesn't have this fitting. I'm thinking that I'll just have Martin tap into the Y-pipe, right after the turbo. (unless anyone here sees an issue with doing that instead of the turbo) The only possible issue I could see with that is possible turbulence from the couplers, interfering with the boost pressure and making it hard to get an accurate boost pressure source.

Last edited by jellenberg; 10-24-2015 at 01:20 PM.
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Old 10-25-2015, 11:58 AM   #43
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Pressure reading will not be subject to turbulence. Pressure drop due to bends and restrictions is a different story.
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Old 10-25-2015, 12:00 PM   #44
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Hmm alright, so in your opinion, is that an ok spot to tap into? Or would it be smarter to tap into the turbo?
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:48 PM   #45
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Update 1/27/16 I Have decided to switch to a FMIC due to the high costs and lower efficiency of the TMIC. After getting a custom bracket, Y-Pipe, and Splitter made up, it would be as expensive as a FMIC with custom piping. We will either run the hot side piping underneath the manifold (where the turbo inlet normally goes) or will clock the turbo slightly counter-clockwise and run the piping along the side of the manifold, between the intake heatshield. the cold side piping will be basically normal routing, as long as I can still retain my windshield washer fluid reservoir and use the Tial Bov. Then I'm thinking that I'll powdercoat the piping wrinkle black so that I don't have too much purple with the intake manifold, alternator cover and compressor cover in purple.

Also Huge shout out to ETS for their awesome customer service! they let me ship my TMIC back to them in exchange for store credit towards my FMIC core. Can't say enough how awesome that is for a company to do.

Here's a few more pictures of the updated build.


the turbo placement is getting finalized to finish the intake and up pipe. The back of the turbo will probably get dropped a bit to make more room for the downpipe.


Getting the Heat Shield mocked up, We'll Have to trim the bracket that covers the EBCS and we moved the ABS module forward about an inch and a half to make room for the fog light intake.


Here's the tube we're using for the fog light intake. it'll be held in place with a few brackets and will just slip onto the fog light bezel.


Here's the headers with the V-Band mod


and finally the 4" velocity stack with a massive 7" filter.

Last edited by jellenberg; 01-27-2016 at 11:46 PM.
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Old 02-12-2016, 10:18 PM   #46
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Stopped by the shop today to check out the progress and drop off the FMIC. It's slowly starting to come together and look like I've been planning on, for what feels like forever now.



The intake is in its final stages and almost ready for final welds.



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Old 03-06-2016, 09:19 PM   #47
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Update 3/6/16
We finally got the ETS FMIC installed but decided to ditch the idea of trying to keep the corners or the bumper beam installed for some crash protection. The up-pipe was almost done but when we got it back from the CAD guys and mounted the up-pipe with the wastegates, one of them was contacting the transmission so we had to cut it back up and go back to the drawing board.
The new bracket for the air oil separator came in and now I'm just waiting for the AN adapter fittings to come in so we can start building our AN braided lines for the Perrin AOS.









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Old 03-22-2016, 02:48 AM   #48
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Old 03-30-2016, 11:40 PM   #49
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Update 3/30/16

The intercooler piping is coming along nicely and we're hoping to have it done within a week, we've just hit a few bumps in the road along the way as usual lol.





I'm also working on a bit of a side project during the build and building custom AN braided lines for my Perrin air oil separator and my fuel rails/ surge tank.





We're also planning on mounting the Company 23 Anti Surge Boost Control Solenoid on a different spot, most likely on the front of the intake heat shield, just above the intake tube and removing the black bracket all together.

The other object that is being relocated is the coolant overflow due to not having enough room on the manifold with the heat shield..poor planning (but oh well) It will most likely end up getting a custom bracket off of the other side of the pitch stop, next to the AOS.

The final Item to mention is that in the process of making new fuel lines, I decided to convert to a parallel setup. I will most likely mount the radium Fuel Pulse Damper with a Y fitting on the bottom pitch stop bolt and have it centered. then just split the lines to each rail and mount the pressure gauge on the drivers side rail with 2 plugs on the front of the rails to finish off the system.

Last edited by jellenberg; 03-30-2016 at 11:47 PM.
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Old 04-13-2016, 12:24 PM   #50
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Update 4/13/16

The intercooler piping is all tacked together and we're starting to build the brackets for the piping to hold it a little more steady and avoid hitting parts like the manifold or brake master cylinder.



We're still messing with the fitment of the Perrin AOS and will most likely bend the AC lines a bit and then slot out the bracket to get it to sit a little lower so the fittings will clear the intercooler piping.



For the fuel system, we've made a few changes as well and decided to move the battery to the trunk and place the surge tank in the battery slot, but that might require us to remove the little box that the battery sits on in order to gain some extra hood clearance.



Here's the Radium Fuel Pulse Damper with Aeromotive Y Block that will be the beginning of the parallel fuel lines after the surge tank connects to it. It will most likely be mounted on the lower pitch stop bolt to keep it centered and the two fuel lines as short and equal as possible.



Plus a bonus shot of the Injector Dynamics fuel rail with Radium pressure gauge, just because I thought it looked really cool

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