Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday November 13, 2019
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2019, 12:36 PM   #1051
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

the cast pistons are probably therer for more longevity. even in the 207 they did get rid of them after 2 years. Im sure Subvaru thought about balance and really at that power level you dont really need they extra strength in the pistons unless you mess with tune.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-02-2019, 12:36 PM   #1052
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
Back when I started racing a veteran racer/builder told me something that stuck, and shaped a lot of what I did that made me successful. He said, "It's not the parts, it's the combination."
I 100% agree with that philosophy.

But most of the S209 handling parts will be available for purchase (struts, springs, chassis bracing, wheels, etc.). Other than aero parts, there will be little handling differences between the two. The wider, stickier tires likely contribute the most to faster track times. It's not like the S209 receives much that's difficult to replicate, not like Honda's seam welding for ITR back in the day. It is possible that the S209 receives some special ABS/VSC tuning that you can't easily replicate.

But like you mentioned, that's not the point. This is the rarest and best out-of-the-box STI that we've ever received in the US (and will carry a warranty). If you want a fast track car, you're going to the aftermarket anyways. Most S209s will remain in factory condition.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 10-02-2019 at 12:52 PM.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 12:40 PM   #1053
SatinWhitePearl
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170780
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County
Vehicle:
2018 Type RA
Crystal White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
I think the RA owners are pretty happy given this news about no forged pistons.
I know, I am; however, I'm still disappointed Subaru made the switch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Definitely. They were more upset by the '19 STI receiving most of the Type RA improvements.

I personally like the more "conservative" appearance of the Type RA. I do wish we had the wingless option like Japan's Type RA-R though. I know "less downforce bro #racecar", but I think it gives it a more mature appearance.

The Type RA owners can probably decrease the on-track performance gap a bit by adding the S series chassis bracing and a better set of tires.
I'm in the same boat with the RA's looks versus the S209, that fender air vent annoyed me from day one - check back in the comments. xD

That said, I do wish the RA received more of what the S209 did, but I'm good with them being quite similar at their very core.

There's no doubt adding some better tires to the RA would make a real difference, that said - any RA / base STi owner knows - no matter how many of the S209 parts you can install, it won't be an S209. For me, I'm fine with that as I'd rather pickup some of the STi bracing, that's always been available, and not be far off at all.

Ideally, it wouldn't be a bad day to have an RA and an S210.
SatinWhitePearl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 02:30 PM   #1054
thill
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 377200
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere north of south
Vehicle:
18 Miata Club
Jet Black Mica

Default

Been a long time since I visited the forum but saw Cnet posted an S209 review so I popped in.

For me this is just a whole bunch of meh. In the New England area multiple RA's were being sold at discount this summer and I cannot imagine ever paying more than high $40K's for this car especially with the C8 being announced at $59K. Hell go pickup a leftover C7 for less than $50K or a Grand Sport for under $60K.

I just don't really see anything special about this car, the regular STI with even a few mods will get you 90%+ of what this car is with a pile of cash in your pocket.

Subaru should just focus on making the next gen WRX/STI somethign truly special and try to capture some of the magic again.
thill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 02:42 PM   #1055
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: who the hell makes those
Vehicle:
.... missiles - when
they know wat they can do

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
the cast pistons are probably therer for more longevity. even in the 207 they did get rid of them after 2 years. Im sure Subvaru thought about balance and really at that power level you dont really need they extra strength in the pistons unless you mess with tune.
Yes, so why did Subaru announce the S209 would get forged pistons in their press release? All these arguments are beside the point. I wouldn't be surprised if people buy one thinking there are in fact forged pistons in a fully balanced hand built engine and salesmen out there saying the same.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 04:02 PM   #1056
SeeeeeYa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: WV
Vehicle:
'19 Imp Ltd Wagon
CWP

Default

Are there really serious buyers for an S209, that have that kind of perseverance to find/get one, and are stupid enough to not know exactly what they're spending their money on?

That's the implication. That those decently heeled, focused car enthusiasts are less informed about what they're buying than the people in NASIOC's News and Rumors forum.

Then again, I've seen salesmen who were ignorant. Those kind of customers, not so much.
SeeeeeYa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 04:14 PM   #1057
SatinWhitePearl
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170780
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County
Vehicle:
2018 Type RA
Crystal White Pearl

Default

Countless arguments, debates, aside - it's going to be quite the challenge to get one - even if you've got the money.
SatinWhitePearl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 04:33 PM   #1058
Fierysun
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 82745
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:
2005 Subaru STI
2003 EJ207 S204 Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thill View Post
Been a long time since I visited the forum but saw Cnet posted an S209 review so I popped in.

For me this is just a whole bunch of meh. In the New England area multiple RA's were being sold at discount this summer and I cannot imagine ever paying more than high $40K's for this car especially with the C8 being announced at $59K. Hell go pickup a leftover C7 for less than $50K or a Grand Sport for under $60K.

I just don't really see anything special about this car, the regular STI with even a few mods will get you 90%+ of what this car is with a pile of cash in your pocket.

Subaru should just focus on making the next gen WRX/STI somethign truly special and try to capture some of the magic again.
The Corvette is a very different animal is everyway compared with the STI and not everyone cares for a 2 seater RWD, low storage, summer car. Also the 60K C8 Corvette is the bottom of the barrel no options version as oppose to the S209 is the top. In addition, home brew cars are not on the same build quality or engineering level as a factory car. So your entire argument is invalid.
Fierysun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 04:51 PM   #1059
thill
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 377200
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere north of south
Vehicle:
18 Miata Club
Jet Black Mica

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
The Corvette is a very different animal is everyway compared with the STI and not everyone cares for a 2 seater RWD, low storage, summer car. Also the 60K C8 Corvette is the bottom of the barrel no options version as oppose to the S209 is the top. In addition, home brew cars are not on the same build quality or engineering level as a factory car. So your entire argument is invalid.
I get that, I am pointing out what type of performance $60K can buy you.

A "bottom of the barrel" C8 will run circles around a S209 all day everyday. It won't even be close unless there is snow or excessive water on the ground.

Honestly for $60K buy a leftover brand new C7 and a gently used commuter car/SUV of your choice.

Hey it's your money I just think any STI at this point over mid $40K range is overpriced based on the technology and performance.

Subaru it milking it as much as they can. Don't blame them but at some point they need to take all these massive profits and do something with it that is revolutionary.
thill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 04:53 PM   #1060
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
In addition, home brew cars are not on the same build quality or engineering level as a factory car. So your entire argument is invalid.
That's not a 100% accurate statement. It certainly doesn't make his "entire argument invalid".

In a broad sense, sure. Subaru clearly has the resources to perform more extensive R&D compared to any individual or aftermarket company, but they have to make compromises to meet standards for fuel economy, emissions, etc. while still targeting a certain price point. And as we've seen, Subaru hasn't invested those R&D resources into the STI for quite some time. The STI isn't a primary source of profit for them so there's less financial incentive.

For example:
  • An aftermarket catted downpipe requires little engineering and can yield great gains just because you're less concerned with emissions (increase the diameter & replace 2 cats with 1 high flow).
  • Killer B's ELH is another great example. They did their R&D and developed a product that's better than the S209's UELH in pretty much every aspect, both in design and materials used.
  • The factory tune is another perfect example of Subaru having to balance power, reliability, fuel economy, emissions, fuel quality, climate (altitude, temperature, humidity), driver error, etc.
Will a modded STI have more power and be faster than a S209? Yes
Will it have a better performance per dollar ratio? By a long shot
Will it be as valuable and rare as a S209? Absolutely not.
Will it retain the factory warranty? Nope

People have different priorities, budgets and goals for their cars. None of us will agree on what's "best". But we can all agree that a modified STI will never a S209.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 10-02-2019 at 05:42 PM.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 05:01 PM   #1061
4S-TURBO
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: who the hell makes those
Vehicle:
.... missiles - when
they know wat they can do

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
Are there really serious buyers for an S209, that have that kind of perseverance to find/get one, and are stupid enough to not know exactly what they're spending their money on?

That's the implication. That those decently heeled, focused car enthusiasts are less informed about what they're buying than the people in NASIOC's News and Rumors forum.

Then again, I've seen salesmen who were ignorant. Those kind of customers, not so much.
I agree. But there are those who slip through and read the press release thinking it is set in stone. They call all the dealers in their area with cash in hand to buy and forget about it until they get the call there's one available. Are the salesmen going to tell them there was a kinda big change? is what I'm gonna say to that. Most won't even care to know anyway.

But that's what we're kinda helping to avoid by discussing it in this thread. Which is why it's not hate. Same when I predicted the '19 STI was going to get the Type RA engine. Which proved true.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 05:42 PM   #1062
Fierysun
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 82745
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:
2005 Subaru STI
2003 EJ207 S204 Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
That's not a 100% accurate statement. It certainly doesn't make his "entire argument invalid".

In a broad sense, sure. Subaru clearly has the resources to perform more extensive R&D compared to any individual or aftermarket company, but they have to make compromises to meet standards for fuel economy, emissions, etc. while still targeting a certain price point. And as we've seen, Subaru hasn't invested those R&D resources into the STI for quite some time. It's just not where they make their profit from so there's less financial incentive.

For example, an aftermarket catted downpipe requires little engineering and can yield great gains just because you're less concerned with emissions.

Killer B's ELH is another great example. It's better than the S209's UELH in pretty much every aspect, both in design and materials used.

Will you have more power than a S209? Yes
Will you have a better performance per dollar ratio? By a long shot
Will your car be as valuable or rare as a S209? Absolutely not.
Will your car retain the factory warranty? Nope

People have different priorities, budgets and goals for their cars. None of us will agree on what's "best".
Maybe in one area, but not as a package, and it certainly won't pass State or Federal regulations. Hence it's home brew and doesn't match up with factory.

As for the idiotic Corvette comparisons that always seems to come up.
The Corvette sucks in any condition other then dry while Subaru's in general especially the STI (3x diffs; LSD front, center and LSD rear) doesn't have that issue, as well as has the ability to seat 5 comfortably and have 4 doors, and a laundry list of other features the Vette doesn't have. It's funny someone would think Subaru is milking it while comparing it to the very base of new model Corvette at 60K. Which in general has terrible resale value. While the opposite can be said about STI's and absolutely the S209, which will holds it's value.

Last edited by Fierysun; 10-02-2019 at 05:49 PM.
Fierysun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 05:55 PM   #1063
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
Maybe in one area, but not as a package, and it certainly won't pass State or Federal regulations. Hence it's home brew and doesn't match up with factory.
You didn't make that stipulation in your original comment to him

You can certainly make a faster STI for less money that still meets federal emissions regulations. However, you won't be able to do it and still meet California's CARB requirements which unfortunately is where I live

Subaru/STI could certainly do better themselves. The EJ207 has had a better head package, ELH-TS turbo manifold, and twin scroll-ball bearing turbo for ages.. yet the EJ257 keeps the inferior components. Subaru could add these things, especially the turbo/header package, and still meet State & Federal regulations. With the EJ257's extra displacement, it could/should outshine the EJ207's powerband in pretty much every way.

I don't touch the Corvette comparisons.. it's a completely different car. I will acknowledge that it's a great performance bargain (again, if that's your top priority).

Last edited by WRXnick16; 10-02-2019 at 06:00 PM.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 06:05 PM   #1064
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fierysun View Post
Which in general has terrible resale value. While the opposite can be said about STI's and absolutely the S209, which will holds it's value.
I think the S209 will hold its value well.. maybe. I think it potentially being the last and best of the EJ variations that we receive in the US will help tremendously.. especially depending on how the next generation STI is accepted.

However, people thought the $50k Type RA would hold its value and I've seen used ones sell in the low $40k range. Who knows, maybe they'll appreciate in value 20-30 years from now.
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2019, 07:07 PM   #1065
Jersey Man10
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 427632
Join Date: Aug 2015
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: Texas
Vehicle:
2011 Impreza WRX
Satin White Pearl

Default

Comparing the s209 to a Corvette is laughable. You can say that about any car.
Jersey Man10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 09:51 AM   #1066
thill
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 377200
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere north of south
Vehicle:
18 Miata Club
Jet Black Mica

Default

Anyone who thinks a $55-60K S209 will hold it's value or appreciate in value is laughable. Look at Type RA. My guess is you would be lucky to get high $30K's on a trade in as I see used ones for low $40K's right now.
thill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:30 PM   #1067
SatinWhitePearl
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170780
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County
Vehicle:
2018 Type RA
Crystal White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thill View Post
Anyone who thinks a $55-60K S209 will hold it's value or appreciate in value is laughable. Look at Type RA. My guess is you would be lucky to get high $30K's on a trade in as I see used ones for low $40K's right now.
I doubt we'll see the S209 start for anything less than $59,995+ Destination, but that's before all the dealer 'discounts'.
SatinWhitePearl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:32 PM   #1068
ha-evolution
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31556
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: EC, WI
Vehicle:
2018 Type RA
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SatinWhitePearl View Post
I doubt we'll see the S209 start for anything less than $59,995+ Destination, but that's before all the dealer 'discounts'.
That's my guess also. If it came in at $55k and I could get one for invoice (like my RA) I would have to seriously think about it.
ha-evolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 12:58 PM   #1069
SatinWhitePearl
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 170780
Join Date: Feb 2008
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County
Vehicle:
2018 Type RA
Crystal White Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ha-evolution View Post
That's my guess also. If it came in at $55k and I could get one for invoice (like my RA) I would have to seriously think about it.
In CA, getting an RA at a discount (at least initially - if not ever) was borderline impossible and sometimes, it literally pays, to not be in CA.

If S209s check in around $55k, I would consider it, but I know the reality of an S209 popping up and not having an excessive ADM and being close to $55k is simply wishful thinking.

I'm still of the mind that the best thing to do is hold tight and see if there will be an S210.
SatinWhitePearl is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 01:52 PM   #1070
ha-evolution
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 31556
Join Date: Jan 2003
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: EC, WI
Vehicle:
2018 Type RA
Black

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SatinWhitePearl View Post
If S209s check in around $55k, I would consider it, but I know the reality of an S209 popping up and not having an excessive ADM and being close to $55k is simply wishful thinking.
Agreed not holding my breath
ha-evolution is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 07:45 PM   #1071
WRXnick16
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 447898
Join Date: May 2016
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: W Sac, CA
Vehicle:
2016 WRX (traded)
2019 STI CWP

Default

It would be nice to see the S210 or next gen STI have an option for a titanium and/or active exhaust.

The S209 could have shaved off a good 15 of the 90 lb weight gain with a titanium exhaust. HKS already has a titanium exhaust for the STI.. would have paired nicely with the HKS turbo
WRXnick16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 08:39 PM   #1072
SeeeeeYa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: WV
Vehicle:
'19 Imp Ltd Wagon
CWP

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
It would be nice to see the S210 or next gen STI have an option for a titanium and/or active exhaust.

The S209 could have shaved off a good 15 of the 90 lb weight gain with a titanium exhaust. HKS already has a titanium exhaust for the STI.. would have paired nicely with the HKS turbo
I've thought the same.

There are several other upgrades that can shave even more weight. Guess they're leaving something for others to do, which isn't much.
SeeeeeYa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2019, 09:24 PM   #1073
Fierysun
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 82745
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:
2005 Subaru STI
2003 EJ207 S204 Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by thill View Post
Anyone who thinks a $55-60K S209 will hold it's value or appreciate in value is laughable. Look at Type RA. My guess is you would be lucky to get high $30K's on a trade in as I see used ones for low $40K's right now.
If you haven't noticed, older STI in pristine stock condition with low mileage has been creeping up in value. Even newer STI value don't drop very much (compared to other car brands/models). Also, no one in their right mind should "trade in" a limited edition car or any car for that manner to a dealership where they will low ball you and then try to sell it for above market.

Last edited by Fierysun; 10-03-2019 at 09:37 PM.
Fierysun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 12:40 AM   #1074
hadvw
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 151958
Join Date: Jun 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
You didn't make that stipulation in your original comment to him

You can certainly make a faster STI for less money that still meets federal emissions regulations. However, you won't be able to do it and still meet California's CARB requirements which unfortunately is where I live
The 2015 STI ESX Red Dragon would like a word...
hadvw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-04-2019, 07:24 AM   #1075
KillerBMotorsport
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 198281
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2005 WRX/STi
WRB of course

Default

Well my dealer called yesterday and told me the two S209s they were going to be getting is not happening. So maybe this is a sign to jump platforms or just wait until the FA24 STi is released in a couple years.

As much as I love these cars, I too had a tough time swallowing the price of admission on this one. Given that the aspect of special internals is out of the picture, it makes it that much harder to justify on a personal level.
KillerBMotorsport is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2019 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.