Legislators eye car tech to slow down habitual speeders

[AVANTI R5]

Legislators eye car tech to slow down habitual speeders –


Lawmakers across the country are responding to the recent spike in traffic fatalities by weighing whether to require habitual scofflaws to install speed limiters on their cars.

Speed limiter bills have been introduced this year in Arizona, Maryland, New York, Virginia and Washington State, according to a list provided by the National Conference of State Legislatures. A law is already in effect in Washington, D.C.
The aftermarket product prevents a car from exceeding the posted speed limit.

The concept borrows from the requirement in more than 30 states that drunk driving offenders use an ignition interlock device to ensure they cannot start their car if intoxicated.

Rep. Mari Leavitt (D), who sponsored the Washington bill, said she recently tested the speed limiter technology during a demonstration at the state capitol. In one scenario, she attempted to exceed the speed limit by 10 mph only to have the device slow the car back down.

“It does work,” Leavitt said. “It’s not an ask or a wish or a hope. It’s a reality that they cannot speed.”

U.S. roadway fatalities spiked during the Covid-19 pandemic with a 7% rise in 2020 and a nearly 11% increase in 2021. Speeding was a factor in nearly 30% of the 2021 deaths, the highest percentage in nearly a decade. The numbers have since begun to drop but remain above pre-pandemic levels.
Following a Las Vegas-area high-speed crash that killed nine, the National Transportation Safety Board recommended that all states implement programs to address habitual speeders.

The NTSB has also called for intelligent speed assistance technology to be standard in all new cars, as is required in Europe. California Gov. Gavin Newsom (D) vetoed a bill last year that would have required new cars to have passive speed limiters that warn drivers when they go more than 10 mph over the posted limit.

“State legislatures are increasingly eyeing technology as an option to help with traffic enforcement as crash fatalities remain at stubbornly high levels,” said Douglas Shinkle, who oversees NCSL’s transportation program.

A horrific crash in Renton, Wash., last March that killed a mother and three children prompted Leavitt to introduce her bill. The accused driver was allegedly going 112 mph when he ran a red light and slammed into a minivan carrying five children returning from a class. He had previously been involved in at least one other high-speed crash, according to news reports.

Under Leavitt’s bill, drivers who lost their driving privilege due to multiple moving violations that include speeding would be able to apply for a restricted driver’s license on the condition that they install an intelligent speed assistance device on the vehicle.

“It will save lives,” Leavitt said. “It will mean people that have a penchant for speeding, physically won’t be able to speed.”

To get the license, the suspended driver would pay $100 and provide proof that the speed limiter had been installed on all vehicles that they have access to, except for employer-owned vehicles. The device would be GPS connected and programmed to keep the vehicle at the posted speed limit with three allowances a month to exceed the limit to pass a slower-moving vehicle.

The suspended driver would be responsible for the cost of the device and pay a $21 monthly fee to fund an account to pay for devices for indigent drivers — a provision praised by the Policing Project at New York University’s School of Law. The restricted license and speed limiter would remain in place until the driver’s suspension was lifted.

Leavitt said her bill aims to address two issues: the high percentage of people with suspended licenses who are still driving, and a speeding epidemic that has contributed to an increase in traffic deaths beginning in 2019.

“It’s allowing people to go to work, pick up their kids, get to the medical appointments, and to do it lawfully and safely,” Leavitt said.

At a public hearing for Leavitt’s bill last month, the father of the woman killed in the March crash testified in support of the legislation. “We need stiff consequences for these thrill seekers, and we must use any tools available to detect and stop this from happening again,” Ted Smith said.

In its support for the bill, NTSB called repeat speeding a “nationwide problem” and said countermeasures to address the problem “are lacking.”

Intelligent speed assistance “is a proven countermeasure that, if widely deployed, especially among the most dangerous drivers, will save lives on Washington’s roads, and we applaud you for pursuing this policy,” NTSB said in testimony submitted to Washington’s House Transportation Committee.
The Arizona and Virginia bills largely mirror Washington’s. The Virginia measure was advanced by a Senate committee last week after being passed by the House. Families for Safe Streets praised the bill, saying on X that it will “#StopSuperSpeeders and save lives.”

New York Assemblymember Emily Gallagher’s (D) bill takes a different approach. It would require drivers who rack up 11 or more points on their license in an 18-month period or receive six or more speed camera tickets in a year to install a speed limiter as a condition of their punishment.

Gallagher and Sen. Andrew Gounardes (D) introduced speed limiter legislation last year as part of a package of bills designed to improve traffic safety. That followed a pilot project in New York City that equipped 50 city-owned vehicles with speed limiters resulting in 99% compliance.

“If you won’t stop speeding, New York will make you,” Gounardes said at the time. “We’ve had enough.”

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[dwf137]

Under Leavitt's bill, drivers who lost their driving privilege due to multiple moving violations that include speeding would be able to apply for a restricted driver's license on the condition that they install an intelligent speed assistance device on the vehicle.
...
Leavitt said her bill aims to address two issues: the high percentage of people with suspended licenses who are still driving, and a speeding epidemic that has contributed to an increase in traffic deaths beginning in 2019.

I've already written my reps.

The bill does have some common sense behind it though. This is currently only for people who have a suspended license, but as with most things, it often becomes a foot in the door and things get worse over time. If the tech works, they'll certainly expand it to anyone with a speeding ticket ever. Just like how WA allowed speed cameras only in school zones during school hours (pretty common sense, imo), and then they widened it to be basically anywhere that they deem a traffic enforcement zone, 24 hours a day. A few jurisdictions near me have gone way overboard. Dropping 35 mph streets down to 25 and putting in cameras. Speed camera revenue is literally in their budget as a way to pay their bills. Sad.

[Pre]

More big gubmint control. Punish everyone because of a few.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Pre

More big gubmint control. Punish everyone because of a few.

The WA law is only punishing the few - the ones whose license was already suspended.

I'm concerned it'll grow to punish even more though.

[Brahmzy]

F'ing Leftist Democrats.
They hate freedom, they hate this country and they hate you.
They destroy everything they touch.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

F'ing Leftist Democrats.
They hate freedom, they hate this country and they hate you.
They destroy everything they touch.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by dwf137

I've already written my reps.

The bill does have some common sense behind it though. This is currently only for people who have a suspended license, but as with most things, it often becomes a foot in the door and things get worse over time. If the tech works, they'll certainly expand it to anyone with a speeding ticket ever. Just like how WA allowed speed cameras only in school zones during school hours (pretty common sense, imo), and then they widened it to be basically anywhere that they deem a traffic enforcement zone, 24 hours a day. A few jurisdictions near me have gone way overboard. Dropping 35 mph streets down to 25 and putting in cameras. Speed camera revenue is literally in their budget as a way to pay their bills. Sad.

Originally Posted by Pre

More big gubmint control. Punish everyone because of a few.

Originally Posted by dwf137

The WA law is only punishing the few - the ones whose license was already suspended.

I'm concerned it'll grow to punish even more though.

Originally Posted by Brahmzy

F'ing Leftist Democrats.
They hate freedom, they hate this country and they hate you.
They destroy everything they touch.

Originally Posted by dwf137

I've had my fun like anyone else.

But, peel a few bodies of the innocents that get hit by speeders out of cars and maybe you'll have a different perspective? I've been fortunate, I think, to not be as affected by what I've seen in my career as others. Just kids. And luckily it's only been one in 27 years for me. But, to think of that person "having a bit of fun" and that unforseen incident comes around the corner.

Why does anyone have to speed? Do the maths. You ain't gettin anywhere in your normal daily commuting in a significantly faster time.

Now, those changing speeds soley to get you? Yeah. not right.

[Charlie-III]

I recently read an article that covered the speed limiter along with a number of states that are rethinking speed limits. They are surveying average ACTUAL speeds and possibly raising the speed limit to be more in line with reality. Along with this, minimum posted speed (rarely seen, but there) would also be raised to reduce a speed disparity between upper and lower speed limits.

Used to be nuts for me and traveling around the country. I would get used to higher speed limits out west and then return to NJ and "just drove normal" but that was way over the local limit.
Actually got stopped on my way home from the airport. Was a bit too much over. When he started talking to me as I handed over paperwork, I mentioned I had just returned from out west with higher limits. I had my itinerary in my pocket and showed him. He ran my paperwork, came back, handed it back, told me to slow down a bit.

[godfather2112]

Could be useful for people who have reckless driving tickets, numerous speeding violations, etc. Kind of like a breathalyzer for people with a DUI. I highly doubt it would ever become required on all vehicles since it would tank revenue generated from speeding tickets.

Side note, my F150 software update included vehicle data sharing. Some of that vehicle data, driving habits. Don't think so FORD and insurance companies, I turned that right the **** off.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by godfather2112

Could be useful for people who have reckless driving tickets, numerous speeding violations, etc........

How many out there that need/deserve these that just never get stopped/caught?

[Russ_G93]

Its kind of reminds me of the whole Electric Bike debacle; ones that can go up to 40mph. Bunch of kids have them and they speed through lights, tons of videos of them getting hit by cars, etc.
So what does CA do.... Re-Classify the different bikes, Can't go this speed, can't have this Wattage of Battery/Power, can't have a throttle, must have a Pedal, Must say the Class of Bike on the bike. If no pedals, its a vehicle that requires DMV taxation -----Meanwhile, the simplest answer would have been to make the sale of them/Riding of them an 18yrs and Up type of bike. (I mean 40mph is pretty quick and I get it - Safety n' all, but still, its the "Paying for it" aspect.)

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

Its kind of reminds me of the whole Electric Bike debacle; ones that can go up to 40mph. Bunch of kids have them and they speed through lights, tons of videos of them getting hit by cars, etc.
So what does CA do.... Re-Classify the different bikes, Can't go this speed, can't have this Wattage of Battery/Power, can't have a throttle, must have a Pedal, Must say the Class of Bike on the bike. If no pedals, its a vehicle that requires DMV taxation -----Meanwhile, the simplest answer would have been to make the sale of them/Riding of them an 18yrs and Up type of bike. (I mean 40mph is pretty quick and I get it - Safety n' all, but still, its the "Paying for it" aspect.)

As an e-bike owner (emtb), not sure I agree. It's a lot more nuanced than allowing someone to get their license back with a speed limiter. Many of the electric "bikes" that kids are getting in trouble on are essentially electric dirtbikes and should be subject to the same laws as any other gas powered dirtbike, but since they're quiet and kids convince their parents that they're just "bikes", they buy them and don't follow the rules. Having a classification system makes it easier to communicate the requirements to the buyer (parents), and makes it easier for land owners to decide who can ride where... dirtbikes (electric or not) are generally not allowed on mountain bike trails, but class 1 ebikes sometimes are.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I've had my fun like anyone else.

But, peel a few bodies of the innocents that get hit by speeders out of cars and maybe you'll have a different perspective? I've been fortunate, I think, to not be as affected by what I've seen in my career as others. Just kids. And luckily it's only been one in 27 years for me. But, to think of that person "having a bit of fun" and that unforseen incident comes around the corner.

Why does anyone have to speed? Do the maths. You ain't gettin anywhere in your normal daily commuting in a significantly faster time.

Now, those changing speeds soley to get you? Yeah. not right.

There's exceeding the speed limit, and then there's reckless driving. I think they're getting mixed up here... Driving 5-10 over on an empty highway through farm country is a little different than driving 70 in a 35 on a city arterial.

A system like this, that limits a car to exactly the speed limit, is authoritarian. I can sort of understand it in the situation that WA is pursuing - people who lost their license for reckless driving only. It gives them a way to get around other than taxi/uber, friends, walking, or what tends to happen a lot - illegally driving with a suspended license and no insurance. But my point is that I've watched WA take what seems like a reasonable use of tech like this and expand it beyond the original intent, into a much more authoritarian system.

[Russ_G93]

Originally Posted by dwf137

As an e-bike owner (emtb), not sure I agree. It's a lot more nuanced than allowing someone to get their license back with a speed limiter. Many of the electric "bikes" that kids are getting in trouble on are essentially electric dirtbikes and should be subject to the same laws as any other gas powered dirtbike, but since they're quiet and kids convince their parents that they're just "bikes", they buy them and don't follow the rules. Having a classification system makes it easier to communicate the requirements to the buyer (parents), and makes it easier for land owners to decide who can ride where... dirtbikes (electric or not) are generally not allowed on mountain bike trails, but class 1 ebikes sometimes are.

Yeah I know, its just such a grey area with how they want to do it. You can essentially have what looks like a normal mtb, but it could have like a 5000w motor, like the Hi-Power Revolution bikes or the Bitrix Juggernauts with a 2300w mid-drive. Those are fast bikes, yet because they "Look" like a normal MTB (Not really the hipower, but the bitirix 100%) your chances of getting in trouble for it are slim.

Makes me think that just simply putting an Age restriction on for Wattage as opposed to (Throttle vs Pedal) would be the way to go.
I mean I can easily reach 40mph on my road bike going down a hill, but its on me to not ride into traffic.
I have a Ristretto, has a rather large "Class 2" Badge on the frame, has pedals, looks like a Bomber style (Get one for sure if you're wanting one), they're making a 72v 52ah battery for them, and to unlock speed, you go into an app and release liability to the company, lets you go up to 40mph.

- The Bikes themselves (Ristretto and Biktrix) are such a Grey areas because of badging/pedals/and switching back out of "Race mode." Makes the laws almost.. a waste of a Legislative change, as far as someone stopping you and you showing them its "Class 2."
(I do see road bikers getting pulled over for dodging and weaving in traffic, though).
Especially to a landowner, if I pulled up on a Biktrix, they wouldn't know the difference between that and a 750watt assisted mtb - Because of what it looks like, Yet the bike can do 40mph.
Seems like an age limit for "Electric Assist Power" would nip "kids getting hurt" in the bud. But idk probably not thinking of everything.

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by Russ_G93

Yeah I know, its just such a grey area with how they want to do it. You can essentially have what looks like a normal mtb, but it could have like a 5000w motor, like the Hi-Power Revolution bikes or the Bitrix Juggernauts with a 2300w mid-drive. Those are fast bikes, yet because they "Look" like a normal MTB (Not really the hipower, but the bitirix 100%) your chances of getting in trouble for it are slim.

Makes me think that just simply putting an Age restriction on for Wattage as opposed to (Throttle vs Pedal) would be the way to go.
I mean I can easily reach 40mph on my road bike going down a hill, but its on me to not ride into traffic.
I have a Ristretto, has a rather large "Class 2" Badge on the frame, has pedals, looks like a Bomber style (Get one for sure if you're wanting one), they're making a 72v 52ah battery for them, and to unlock speed, you go into an app and release liability to the company, lets you go up to 40mph.

- The Bikes themselves (Ristretto and Biktrix) are such a Grey areas because of badging/pedals/and switching back out of "Race mode." Makes the laws almost.. a waste of a Legislative change, as far as someone stopping you and you showing them its "Class 2."
(I do see road bikers getting pulled over for dodging and weaving in traffic, though).
Especially to a landowner, if I pulled up on a Biktrix, they wouldn't know the difference between that and a 750watt assisted mtb - Because of what it looks like, Yet the bike can do 40mph.
Seems like an age limit for "Electric Assist Power" would nip "kids getting hurt" in the bud. But idk probably not thinking of everything.

I dunno, for the kids, it's up to the parents to help educate them on what they can/should do, and shouldn't. I had a 35mph goped as a kid. It was a blast. Had friends with dirtbikes - there was no legal requirement for ages there, and I don't think there should be, that would be like Europe with their staged motorcycle classes.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by dwf137

There's exceeding the speed limit, and then there's reckless driving. I think they're getting mixed up here... Driving 5-10 over on an empty highway through farm country is a little different than driving 70 in a 35 on a city arterial.

A system like this, that limits a car to exactly the speed limit, is authoritarian. I can sort of understand it in the situation that WA is pursuing - people who lost their license for reckless driving only. It gives them a way to get around other than taxi/uber, friends, walking, or what tends to happen a lot - illegally driving with a suspended license and no insurance. But my point is that I've watched WA take what seems like a reasonable use of tech like this and expand it beyond the original intent, into a much more authoritarian system.

I don't really disagree and I like to go fast a little here or there. Just the longer I've been on the dept, the more I see the results. "Speeding" I don't think is an issue. But, what does speed do?......it SEVERELY intensifies the accident. You can have the most professional, experienced driver "speeding" and then someone pulls out in front of them and there is nothing that "best driver in the world" can do. And his/her speed just killed that person. For what? I do 5 over typically. And I only really do that to not be the slow bastard hindering traffic.

But, my other point was about those that do drive recklessly and have just never been caught. MANY an accident I responded to where the witnesses stated "some car" driving like an ass caused the accident that never stopped.

Originally Posted by dwf137

I dunno, for the kids, it's up to the parents to help educate them on what they can/should do, and shouldn't. I had a 35mph goped as a kid. It was a blast. Had friends with dirtbikes - there was no legal requirement for ages there, and I don't think there should be, that would be like Europe with their staged motorcycle classes.

THAT'S the problem......

[dwf137]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I don't really disagree and I like to go fast a little here or there. Just the longer I've been on the dept, the more I see the results. "Speeding" I don't think is an issue. But, what does speed do?......it SEVERELY intensifies the accident. You can have the most professional, experienced driver "speeding" and then someone pulls out in front of them and there is nothing that "best driver in the world" can do. And his/her speed just killed that person. For what? I do 5 over typically. And I only really do that to not be the slow bastard hindering traffic.

But, my other point was about those that do drive recklessly and have just never been caught. MANY an accident I responded to where the witnesses stated "some car" driving like an ass caused the accident that never stopped.

Driving a speed that makes it so you can't react to someone pulling out on you is what I would consider "reckless". Speeding is finding that middle ground between reckless and the speed limit that's there for the lowest common denominator on the road.

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

THAT'S the problem......

Oh for sure. But you can't punish everyone for the acts of a few.