WWP-99 Service Campaign - Cooling System Conditioner

[ray916mn]

My head gasket on my 2000 OBW just failed, 5 days past the 8 year in service mark and at just under 75K miles. I got the car 2 years ago with about 54K miles on it and due to resources like this forum, knew that to be covered for potential head gasket failure I had to have the coolant changed and the conditioner put in, and I did this at 54K miles thinking it was cheap insurance.

I'm really happy to report, it paid off. The dealer said the car was not eligible for warranty repair, but gave me the number to Subaru NA. I called them and they opened a case on the car. I brought the car into the dealer today to verify what I suspected, and I was right. I had given them the Subaru NA case number and they called and bingo, Subaru will pay for the repairs.

Of course, since the driver's side head gasket failed, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that the passenger side will hold on for a long time.....

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[oreos]

Originally Posted by ray916mn

My head gasket on my 2000 OBW just failed, 5 days past the 8 year in service mark and at just under 75K miles. I got the car 2 years ago with about 54K miles on it and due to resources like this forum, knew that to be covered for potential head gasket failure I had to have the coolant changed and the conditioner put in, and I did this at 54K miles thinking it was cheap insurance.

I'm really happy to report, it paid off. The dealer said the car was not eligible for warranty repair, but gave me the number to Subaru NA. I called them and they opened a case on the car. I brought the car into the dealer today to verify what I suspected, and I was right. I had given them the Subaru NA case number and they called and bingo, Subaru will pay for the repairs.

Of course, since the driver's side head gasket failed, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that the passenger side will hold on for a long time.....

Congratulations on your ability to get that resolved and best of luck.

However, I'd be hesitant to buy a Subaru based on your experience. An engine that failed at 75k miles, a recall that apparently did not resolve the problem, a dealer that gave you a phone number rather than following-up when you were less than a week past the written warranty, and your potential for another significant engine expense in the near future. Reminds me of the old joke that a product lasts just a day beyond its written warranty--think I'd rather have more confidence in a car and if I want to take a chance do it with a lottery ticket.

[Hondaslayer]

Originally Posted by oreos

Congratulations on your ability to get that resolved and best of luck.

However, I'd be hesitant to buy a Subaru based on your experience. An engine that failed at 75k miles, a recall that apparently did not resolve the problem, a dealer that gave you a phone number rather than following-up when you were less than a week past the written warranty, and your potential for another significant engine expense in the near future. Reminds me of the old joke that a product lasts just a day beyond its written warranty--think I'd rather have more confidence in a car and if I want to take a chance do it with a lottery ticket.

Why?

First off the engine did not fail, a gasket did.

Second, the dealer can only goodwill up to 70k, after that it is up to SOA (and for the record, a customer calling SOA gets more help than the dealer calling)

Third Potential? 9 out of 10 are the left side, the right side usually only has a bit of oil build up and nothing more.

Sounds to me like the dealer actually did him a favor by having him call instead of them calling and only getting a 50/50 split.

[oreos]

Originally Posted by hondaslayer

Why?

First off the engine did not fail, a gasket did.

Second, the dealer can only goodwill up to 70k, after that it is up to SOA (and for the record, a customer calling SOA gets more help than the dealer calling)

Third Potential? 9 out of 10 are the left side, the right side usually only has a bit of oil build up and nothing more.

Sounds to me like the dealer actually did him a favor by having him call instead of them calling and only getting a 50/50 split.

Sorry, not surprised by quick reply coming from a dealership representative. We could argue semantics about whether the car failed, the engine failed, or the head gasket part of the car engine failed.

In the end, the car engine needed an expensive repair despite the owner's proper response to the recall of this vehicle engine and the manufacturer's improper response to the original defect. The dealer was unable to resolve the owners problem based on what you've said, and the owner was lucky to get a good result because of the dealers favor of telling him about making the phone call.

Sorry your screen name is hondaslayer, and I am wondering why you chose it. I've heard better stories of both reliability and problem resolution from Honda automobile owners.

Anyway, I hope you're right and the owner of the car in question doesn't face another major car repair bill soon.

[Knotsure]

Originally Posted by oreos

Sorry, not surprised by quick reply coming from a dealership representative. We could argue semantics about whether the car failed, the engine failed, or the head gasket part of the car engine failed.

In the end, the car engine needed an expensive repair despite the owner's proper response to the recall of this vehicle engine and the manufacturer's improper response to the original defect. The dealer was unable to resolve the owners problem based on what you've said, and the owner was lucky to get a good result because of the dealers favor of telling him about making the phone call.

Sorry your screen name is hondaslayer, and I am wondering why you chose it. I've heard better stories of both reliability and problem resolution from Honda automobile owners.

Anyway, I hope you're right and the owner of the car in question doesn't face another major car repair bill soon.

Why do you choose to attack someone who does nothing but help people in this forum? Why don't you just tell us what is your problem with Subaru? Were you fired from a Suby dealer? Subaru? There has to be something there...unless you just post on all car forums with negative crap. Back in August, didn't you stop posting when it became clear you:

A-Do not own a Subaru.
B-You only post on the negative/problem boards, but never on the informational boards (which you would do if you were interested in purchasing one)
C - just make inflammatory statements when someone handles/resolves a situation well?

The only reason I'm even taking the time to post this is so newer Nasioc members do not give your comments any in their shopping decisions.

[oreos]

Originally Posted by Knotsure

Why do you choose to attack someone who does nothing but help people in this forum? Why don't you just tell us what is your problem with Subaru? Were you fired from a Suby dealer? Subaru? There has to be something there...unless you just post on all car forums with negative crap. Back in August, didn't you stop posting when it became clear you:

A-Do not own a Subaru.
B-You only post on the negative/problem boards, but never on the informational boards (which you would do if you were interested in purchasing one)
C - just make inflammatory statements when someone handles/resolves a situation well?

The only reason I'm even taking the time to post this is so newer Nasioc members do not give your comments any in their shopping decisions.

Could you also be posting this because of a friendship with a previous poster? Did you note the compliment of Honda? Or do you just make inflammatory statements?

[blackfang]

Originally Posted by Knotsure

Why do you choose to attack someone who does nothing but help people in this forum? Why don't you just tell us what is your problem with Subaru? Were you fired from a Suby dealer? Subaru? There has to be something there...unless you just post on all car forums with negative crap. Back in August, didn't you stop posting when it became clear you:

A-Do not own a Subaru.
B-You only post on the negative/problem boards, but never on the informational boards (which you would do if you were interested in purchasing one)
C - just make inflammatory statements when someone handles/resolves a situation well?

The only reason I'm even taking the time to post this is so newer Nasioc members do not give your comments any in their shopping decisions.

Sadly, people like oreos is why I am starting to forget about helping people on here. You try and offer the facts and a different view, offer advice and guidance on warranty issues, how to approach things, etc and all people do is bicker about it, or question you, and are negative about it. Hell it is much easier to sit on the side and watch why people post and try to figure it out. I don't get paid to help people for free and not worth my time anymore.

[Knotsure]

Originally Posted by blackfang

Sadly, people like oreos is why I am starting to forget about helping people on here. You try and offer the facts and a different view, offer advice and guidance on warranty issues, how to approach things, etc and all people do is bicker about it, or question you, and are negative about it. Hell it is much easier to sit on the side and watch why people post and try to figure it out. I don't get paid to help people for free and not worth my time anymore.

If you look at the majority of folks on here, you are helping people (me included). It's just important for newer folks to recognize some of these folks that are so lopsided and negative for what they are. You can't let troll's defeat you - or take away the good that you all do. You are appreciated.

[ray916mn]

Originally Posted by ray916mn

My head gasket on my 2000 OBW just failed, 5 days past the 8 year in service mark and at just under 75K miles. I got the car 2 years ago with about 54K miles on it and due to resources like this forum, knew that to be covered for potential head gasket failure I had to have the coolant changed and the conditioner put in, and I did this at 54K miles thinking it was cheap insurance.

I'm really happy to report, it paid off. The dealer said the car was not eligible for warranty repair, but gave me the number to Subaru NA. I called them and they opened a case on the car. I brought the car into the dealer today to verify what I suspected, and I was right. I had given them the Subaru NA case number and they called and bingo, Subaru will pay for the repairs.

Of course, since the driver's side head gasket failed, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that the passenger side will hold on for a long time.....

Actually I screwed up my facts. The car was actually 1 year and 5 days past the 8 year mark! I spoke with the dealer today and they diagnosed that both sides were bad, so they are replacing the head gaskets on both sides under warranty.

Personally, although Subaru had for a period head gasket problems with some of their boxer engines (I have a '96 2.2L Legacy Wagon which had a head gasket problem too @ 165K miles), I take this event as a reason to buy a Subaru. This car is way past the time frame where I'd expect a manufacturer to care. Since I'm the 3rd owner of the car, the fact they care enough about their product and reputation to handle this as a warranty repair is particularly noteworthy.

In a time when many cars have 3 yr. 36K mile warranties, getting warranty coverage at the 9 yr. 75K mark on a 3rd hand car, is a great demonstration of how to really stand behind a product in my opinion.

[oreos]

Originally Posted by ray916mn

Actually I screwed up my facts. The car was actually 1 year and 5 days past the 8 year mark! I spoke with the dealer today and they diagnosed that both sides were bad, so they are replacing the head gaskets on both sides under warranty.

Personally, although Subaru had for a period head gasket problems with some of their boxer engines (I have a '96 2.2L Legacy Wagon which had a head gasket problem too @ 165K miles), I take this event as a reason to buy a Subaru. This car is way past the time frame where I'd expect a manufacturer to care. Since I'm the 3rd owner of the car, the fact they care enough about their product and reputation to handle this as a warranty repair is particularly noteworthy.

In a time when many cars have 3 yr. 36K mile warranties, getting warranty coverage at the 9 yr. 75K mark on a 3rd hand car, is a great demonstration of how to really stand behind a product in my opinion.

Having different facts I would make a different comment. I'd be impressed that you found someone as helpful as the person you describe at Subaru ... perhaps publishing that person's name/extension would help others.

I agree, 3yr/36k miles warranties are a joke for a car. I've heard good things from others about Honda reliability and the way they back their cars in case of problems. I'm surprised at the screen name hondaslayer. With Toyota, it used to be that you did not have to think about using the warranty.

It is strange that the dealer went from one bad gasket to two once you got Subaru to pay.

I'd like to find that there is a car that lasts, way beyond 75k miles, a dealer that supports their customers, and a manufacturer that stands behind their products. Personally, it seems that finding all three together is not all that common.

[blackfang]

Originally Posted by Knotsure

If you look at the majority of folks on here, you are helping people (me included). It's just important for newer folks to recognize some of these folks that are so lopsided and negative for what they are. You can't let troll's defeat you - or take away the good that you all do. You are appreciated.

I understand exactly what you are saying and its not about giving up. It is just not really worth my time trying to help and explain the other side to what ends up being the inept on. All they want to do is argue with you. Most of the time it usually ends up in "you work for a dealership, you rip people off", making all kinds of assumptions, and blah blah blah.

Now it doesn't matter to me if they get the wrong info. Before I was all about helping people on here, but lately it just seems too much ****ing work and not worth the time. There are plenty of others on here that can help. I am not leaving, just not speaking out.

[Knotsure]

Originally Posted by blackfang

I understand exactly what you are saying and its not about giving up. It is just not really worth my time trying to help and explain the other side to what ends up being the inept on. All they want to do is argue with you. Most of the time it usually ends up in "you work for a dealership, you rip people off", making all kinds of assumptions, and blah blah blah.

Now it doesn't matter to me if they get the wrong info. Before I was all about helping people on here, but lately it just seems too much ****ing work and not worth the time. There are plenty of others on here that can help. I am not leaving, just not speaking out.

Kind of like ignoring the disruptive bully at the party and eventually they will leave. Blackfang, I'm glad you'll still be around in case I need help in the future.

[RexyGirl]

I'd like to find that there is a car that lasts, way beyond 75k miles, a dealer that supports their customers, and a manufacturer that stands behind their products. Personally, it seems that finding all three together is not all that common.

Well, if you expect things, like cars, to last forever, then you will be looking for a long time.

Subaru has the best reputation as far as how long their vehicles last AND their reliability.

It has been demonstrated both on here (in this post alone) that Subaru DID back up their car, the dealer DID give a crap AND the car may have only been at 75K miles, but it was 9 years old!!! So you can say that you found what you were looking for.

I would love to know what you do for a living, and if it involves retail of any kind, if your manufacturer cares even the slightest about any of the things you are looking for in a car experience.

And yes, I work for a dealer.

[oreos]

Originally Posted by RexyGirl

Well, if you expect things, like cars, to last forever, then you will be looking for a long time.

Subaru has the best reputation as far as how long their vehicles last AND their reliability.

It has been demonstrated both on here (in this post alone) that Subaru DID back up their car, the dealer DID give a crap AND the car may have only been at 75K miles, but it was 9 years old!!! So you can say that you found what you were looking for.

I would love to know what you do for a living, and if it involves retail of any kind, if your manufacturer cares even the slightest about any of the things you are looking for in a car experience.

And yes, I work for a dealer.

Did I misunderstand you? Is nine years and 75k miles forever? Interesting that you list a 1996 Volvo as your vehicle rather than the one you say has the best reputation and reliability. How many times has part of your 12+ year old Volvo's engine needed repair? How many major repairs has it needed. How many miles does it have? I know Volvo's that would refer to a 75kmi/9yr car just getting its start. And I know Honda would claim best reputation, reliability as well as customer satisfaction too.

Of course, our auto industry is one of the few where a retailer basically can sell/service only one brand in the store. And of course, our entire auto industry is in such fine shape

[blackfang]

Originally Posted by oreos

Did I misunderstand you? Is nine years and 75k miles forever? Interesting that you list a 1996 Volvo as your vehicle rather than the one you say has the best reputation and reliability. How many times has part of your 12+ year old Volvo's engine needed repair? How many major repairs has it needed. How many miles does it have? I know Volvo's that would refer to a 75kmi/9yr car just getting its start. And I know Honda would claim best reputation, reliability as well as customer satisfaction too.

Of course, our auto industry is one of the few where a retailer basically can sell/service only one brand in the store. And of course, our entire auto industry is in such fine shape

How about you tell us what you drive and what you do for a living and how you reflect in your business, being you appear to be so involved in questioning Subaru's cars, their reliability, and with SOA and the dealerships policies and what they are and aren't going to do for a customer.

Until then you should probably use your mouth only to suck start something, and stop posting until you can contribute something worthwhile. Frankly you are not here to contribute anything and are just trolling.

[Knotsure]

^^^x's 100 to Blackfang and Rexy. I think I have it figured out. Oreos works for a Honda dealer after he got the axe from a Subaru dealer. He's only on here to post negative about Subaru, praise Honda. He won't disclose what he does for a living nor what he drives. Back in the summer when he started this cr*p in his postings and he was asked to disclose some info., he went away. Only to come back here to troll some more this month. Dare I say that in this current tough automotive climate, he's hoping his 'brilliant' posting would sway folks away from buying a Suby? Maybe if we ignore him, he will go away?

Rexy - don't even bother trying to tell him about your Volvo, etc. He won't hear what you say anyway. You know more about Subaru's than he ever has a chance of knowing so if anyone reads your post history, they will know to put their faith in your post, Blackfang's post and Hondaslayers post than in his.

Oreos - the Honda boards are calling you. Please go hang with them!

[RexyGirl]

Originally Posted by oreos

Did I misunderstand you? Is nine years and 75k miles forever? Interesting that you list a 1996 Volvo as your vehicle rather than the one you say has the best reputation and reliability. How many times has part of your 12+ year old Volvo's engine needed repair? How many major repairs has it needed. How many miles does it have? I know Volvo's that would refer to a 75kmi/9yr car just getting its start. And I know Honda would claim best reputation, reliability as well as customer satisfaction too.

Of course, our auto industry is one of the few where a retailer basically can sell/service only one brand in the store. And of course, our entire auto industry is in such fine shape

First of all, what I drive has NOTHING to do with this conversation, or my viewpoint on Subaru, but if you must know:

Before purchasing my Volvo USED, I did search for a Subaru. Unfortunately, what I could afford and what I wanted did not mix.

My husband is a Master Certified Volvo tech, so any repairs needed I get done for just parts, usually at a discount. The only thing I have done is minor maintenance, front brakes and wipers. It does need more work though.

My vehicle has 229,000 miles on it. When I bought it, it had about 175,000 miles. The deal fell in my lap, and for what I paid for it, I have already gotten my money's worth. No major engine repairs have been done by me, and I personally do not know the history of the vehicle, but my husband might. BUT, if you want to use this to compare to Subaru, I could tell you stories about how unreliable Volvos can be....throttle bodies, over 550 recalls on models (on model had 11 alone), computer issues, etc. For all I know, mine coulde have 5 engines replaced and two transmissions. But, when I bought it for $2000.00 everything was fine and it's been fine since.

[oreos]

Originally Posted by RexyGirl

First of all, what I drive has NOTHING to do with this conversation, or my viewpoint on Subaru, but if you must know:

Before purchasing my Volvo USED, I did search for a Subaru. Unfortunately, what I could afford and what I wanted did not mix.

My husband is a Master Certified Volvo tech, so any repairs needed I get done for just parts, usually at a discount. The only thing I have done is minor maintenance, front brakes and wipers. It does need more work though.

My vehicle has 229,000 miles on it. When I bought it, it had about 175,000 miles. The deal fell in my lap, and for what I paid for it, I have already gotten my money's worth. No major engine repairs have been done by me, and I personally do not know the history of the vehicle, but my husband might. BUT, if you want to use this to compare to Subaru, I could tell you stories about how unreliable Volvos can be....throttle bodies, over 550 recalls on models (on model had 11 alone), computer issues, etc. For all I know, mine coulde have 5 engines replaced and two transmissions. But, when I bought it for $2000.00 everything was fine and it's been fine since.

Thank's RexyGirl for a generally polite and mostly very good answer.

It appears that you got much more than I'd hope to find in a car -- any brand -- a reasonable price, excellent reliability, and automobile maintenance where you chose at a great discount.

Obviously, you are fortunate to be in the position to evaluate cars as you can. Some of the rest of us are more dependent on luck, and stories, to try to weed out the good and the bad from among manufacturers/models and dealers/servicers.

[wdb]

I've been having fun reading this thread and unabomber's Cooling System FAQ this morning. Our '00 Legacy GT has 140K miles and recently sprang a leak in the radiator right in the vicinity of the top tank seam. We're having the work done by a local indy shop rather than the Subaru dealer, and I wanted to do some research on the Subaru coolant additive to find out if I should bother with it or not. (Looks like I should.)

Anywhoo, all this hoopla about Subarus and head gaskets just makes me smile. I worked as a mechanic in a new car dealership in the 70's, and they took on Subaru about 6 months before I left. Head gaskets were a pretty common point of failure back then, and based on what I have been reading they really never stopped being a failure point. Our '00 had the cooling system recall done by the dealer, despite which we developed a leak in the driver's side gasket at about 90K miles. Subaru paid for the fix.

I guess the clif notes based on my own experience would be:
- Subarus have long been known to have issues with head gaskets
- Subaru knows it, I know it, and I know Subaru knows it
- I like Subarus even though their head gaskets leak

[contrail_25]

Just came across this thread today, it's answered a huge question for me as of the past few days:

Just where the heck is that coolant leaking from?

I have a 2001 Legacy/Outback, just went over 125K. Bought it at 81K and have loved it ever since. No big issues, except a shop botching the timing belt replacement at 90K and busting not only my radiator, but in the process damaged the transmission cooling lines. The later subsequently failed about 5 hours from home on I-35.

Back to the point, when I got to work at the wonderfully cold and dark hour of 530am, I noticed 'steam' coming from under the hood. Couldn't figure out what it was till later in the afternoon when I had a puddle of coolant on the ground. Gave it a good look over, but couldn't find anything, so I threw it up on the lift at the base hobby shop and using a flashlight and mirror found it was dripping from the drivers side cylinder head area.

Googled the problem when I got home and found this thread.

Over Xmas I had an independent suby shop change my oil and flush the radiator, and they mentioned the head gaskets might fail in the future, especially considering the car has 125K on it and to my knowledge, never had the conditioning or had the gaskets replaced.

The nearest dealership shop is two hours from here, I plan on making a weekend trip out of it. I'm guessing that while they are at it, getting the passenger side gasket replaced as well wouldn't be a bad idea. Any thoughts on that?

[Nanban Jim]

So I just bought a used 02 Impreza TS (oh yeah I'm a billy badass :P ) and my mechanic told me it's leaking coolant from the head gaskets. Around 85k miles, awesome, repairs will cost about half what I paid...

... unless whoever owned it first did the service required under this WWP-99 thing. So my question:

Is there some way for me to look up/query whether this service was done on my vehicle?

ANSWERING MY OWN QUESTION:
YES! Nothing on the web, but calling 1-800-SUBARU3 was totally painless! Took about 5 minutes to get to a customer service rep. I didn't have to navigate through a huge set of menus or anything. Looked up my VIN (sadly, that VIN wasn't involved), checked for open recalls and junk. Pretty impressed.

[EDTIVA]

Yeah let me know if they fix it for free. My parents just had their 02 TS Wagon start leaking. 40k on the car, and it is outside the affected range of VINS. I call shanangins, as obviously the car has the same shatty headgasket. We bought it new and they go virtualy nowhere in it. I opened a case with Subaru, and requested a good faith fix. We have 3 Subarus sitting in the driveway... :-(

Fingers crossed, as it is a hardship to get a $1,500 repair.

Subaru if you read this, help us please! PM me if you want a case number.

This isn't my first problem with Subaru either... :-( I had an 08 wrx... for reasons only subaru knows I now have an 09 wrx. Good chances are it will spin an bearing as everyone elses has since it is has a build date of 07/08. And now this. Every time a friend ask what car to buy, I say subaru, and have helped many people buy them... This case will be the make our break for me though with this brand, as I convinced my parents to buy the Subaru TS Wagon, instead of the Susuki Aerio that was also AWD.

Originally Posted by Nanban Jim

So I just bought a used 02 Impreza TS (oh yeah I'm a billy badass :P ) and my mechanic told me it's leaking coolant from the head gaskets. Around 85k miles, awesome, repairs will cost about half what I paid...

... unless whoever owned it first did the service required under this WWP-99 thing. So my question:

Is there some way for me to look up/query whether this service was done on my vehicle?

ANSWERING MY OWN QUESTION:
YES! Nothing on the web, but calling 1-800-SUBARU3 was totally painless! Took about 5 minutes to get to a customer service rep. I didn't have to navigate through a huge set of menus or anything. Looked up my VIN (sadly, that VIN wasn't involved), checked for open recalls and junk. Pretty impressed.

[oreos]

Originally Posted by EDTIVA

Yeah let me know if they fix it for free. My parents just had their 02 TS Wagon start leaking. 40k on the car, and it is outside the affected range of VINS. I call shanangins, as obviously the car has the same shatty headgasket. We bought it new and they go virtualy nowhere in it. I opened a case with Subaru, and requested a good faith fix. We have 3 Subarus sitting in the driveway... :-(

Fingers crossed, as it is a hardship to get a $1,500 repair.

Subaru if you read this, help us please! PM me if you want a case number.

This isn't my first problem with Subaru either... :-( I had an 08 wrx... for reasons only subaru knows I now have an 09 wrx. Good chances are it will spin an bearing as everyone elses has since it is has a build date of 07/08. And now this. Every time a friend ask what car to buy, I say subaru, and have helped many people buy them... This case will be the make our break for me though with this brand, as I convinced my parents to buy the Subaru TS Wagon, instead of the Susuki Aerio that was also AWD.

Thanks for the Suziki Aerio tip. Suby seems to have two choices, 800-ALUCKY1 and 800-MYLEMON .

[EDTIVA]

Looks like I get to keep recommending Subaru's to my friends, and helping them buy them... all is being taken care of; like it should be :-) I got the call today and my parents are very happy about not going into the holiday season flat broke. If you read this Subaru, thank you so very much... true Subaru love.

[legacyb4]

I'm up here in Vancouver looking at an '03 Forester (103,000km, automatic) with a "badly leaking" left side gasket and a "seeping" right side gasket.

On the advice of my friend, I'm doing some background checks to find out whether WWP-99 was applied to my vehicle (I purchased from a local Subaru dealer at the end of 2004) and preparing some ammo to go to bat with my dealer and/or Subaru Canada.

Sucks that this happens and can only hope for the right outcome as the dealer as initially come forward with a "50/50 cost split" on the repairs.