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Old 03-11-2013, 07:40 PM   #1751
53x12
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Is that supporting my statement or going against it?
If you have to ask...
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Old 03-11-2013, 10:27 PM   #1752
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With the XV Crosstrek hybrid, is it safe to say it would be a $3-3.5k premium over the non-hybrid version? So a XV hybrid with similar features to the Limited would start around $27.5-28k?
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Old 03-11-2013, 11:19 PM   #1753
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If you have to ask...

Well, those show neither "couples with no kids" nor "families with kids", so.....



And I was referring to pre-14MY commercials and what Subaru has spent a good amount of time focusing on.

I haven't seen anything that shows the Crosstrek being marketed towards "families" as much as the Forester. So, when cross shopping the 2, I think the price of the Crosstrek(with it's amenities) will be appealing vs a same priced base Forester for those without kids.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:22 AM   #1754
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Well, those show neither "couples with no kids" nor "families with kids", so.....



And I was referring to pre-14MY commercials and what Subaru has spent a good amount of time focusing on.

I haven't seen anything that shows the Crosstrek being marketed towards "families" as much as the Forester. So, when cross shopping the 2, I think the price of the Crosstrek(with it's amenities) will be appealing vs a same priced base Forester for those without kids.
^^This^^
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:07 AM   #1755
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...
However, think about the following demographics: Couple. No kids/family. Pets. Like the outdoors. Active.

Now think about the marketing that SOA has for both cars:

1) The XV with it pulling up to the cabin with the dog in the back. They actually have one kid (maybe two at the last take with the puppies). Off road. Outdoorsy. Animals. Or, small, young family.

2) Forester... who are these cars (stereotypically) marketed towards? Again, typical not to have kids.

If you think these cars aren't marked towards the DINKS of the worlds (DINK - Double Income No Kids), you'e sorely mistaken. And in that... the wife and I fit perfectly to those two markets for either car.
...
It's the wife and I and our two bigger dogs. Ocassionally the MIL or friends. No kids.

So, ask yourself again who the targeted demographic of consumers are. Two people with no or small kids, right? And keep in mind what the wife and I are.
...
This XV Crosstrek commercial from Subaru doesn't show any kids. It appears to be targeted at young, adventuresome (the "wife" sheds her top before going for a dip in the lake) couples.


But then there's this other recent SOA XV Crosstrek commercial:

It doesn't show any children, either, but the announcer yammers on and on about family fun and family safety. Or maybe not - I don't understand Chinese.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:50 AM   #1756
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cocoa Beach Bum View Post
This XV Crosstrek commercial from Subaru doesn't show any kids. It appears to be targeted at young, adventuresome (the "wife" sheds her top before going for a dip in the lake) couples.
The one that got the most play all over the US from Subaru was called "Best Friend". YouTube is blocked here at work.

It's on the Subaru Website (the video with the puppy) at: http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-cr...os-videos.html (Note, that won't play for me here at work either due to streaming media).

--kC
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #1757
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
The one that got the most play all over the US from Subaru was called "Best Friend". YouTube is blocked here at work.

It's on the Subaru Website (the video with the puppy) at: http://www.subaru.com/vehicles/xv-cr...os-videos.html (Note, that won't play for me here at work either due to streaming media).

--kC
Here is the commercial. It's the commercial I see all the time on TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ozs...e_gdata_player

I don't recall seeing any other XV commercials on TV, besides local dealer commercials.

Both vehicles are marketed towards families with the XV towards younger singles, couples, and new families while the Forester for, lack of a better term, older (2-3) children families.

Forester Hockey Mom:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSEj...e_gdata_player

Last edited by subyski; 03-12-2013 at 12:30 PM.
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Old 03-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #1758
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Funny thing is my mom who is 50 years old is wanting one of these to take over her old 03 TL a-spec but I was thinking this was geared towards younger families as well. I guess its a platform for everyone
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:01 PM   #1759
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No children in this SOA Crosstrek video (targeted at 20-somethings?):
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:04 PM   #1760
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Right. And it comes full circle to this.

As a couple that doesn't have kids or a family, I don't *need* one over the other due to space restrictions or comfort & convenience. And that's the confusing part, because they're the same price.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:26 PM   #1761
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Is Forester faster than Crosstrek?
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:28 PM   #1762
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Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Is Forester faster than Crosstrek?
They're both woefully slow.. that's all anyone needs to know.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:37 PM   #1763
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Just wondering if that's an additional advantage of a base Forester vs a Crosstrek. The Forester is also supposed to be one of the quietest Subarus made, and I've heard from Crosstrek testers that it can be a bit noisy, so that may be an additional check mark in the Forester's column as well.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:39 PM   #1764
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Is Forester faster than Crosstrek?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
They're both woefully slow.. that's all anyone needs to know.
Just wondering if that's an additional advantage of a base Forester vs a Crosstrek.

The Forester is also supposed to be one of the quietest Subarus made, and I've heard from Crosstrek testers that it can be a bit noisy, so that may be an additional check mark in the Forester's column as well.

I haven't seen a ride comparison either.
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:44 PM   #1765
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
...
YouTube is blocked here at work.
...
Note, that won't play for me here at work either due to streaming media.
Who lets some idiot IT guy infringe upon the inalienable right to waste time at work nowadays? Proxy servers FTW!
https://www.securetunnel.com/xpress
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:56 PM   #1766
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Ummm... no. Not even once.

--kC
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Old 03-12-2013, 01:59 PM   #1767
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According to http://www.zeroto60times.com/Subaru-0-60-mph-Times.html

2014 Subaru Forester 2.5i 0-60 mph 8.5
2013 Subaru XV Crosstrek AWD (Manual) 0-60 mph 8.1

The '14 may have been CVT since (Manual) was not specified and a Manual is usually quicker than a CVT on almost all accounts. So, probably similar around 8.0-8.1. But, 0-60 times aren't the whole picture. Given where torque is available in the rev range (lower on the Forester), and there's more of it... that's another feather in the cap of the Forester.

--kC
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:11 PM   #1768
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Is Forester faster than Crosstrek?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
They're both woefully slow.. that's all anyone needs to know.
But you can't get an XT model of the Crosstrek.
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Old 03-12-2013, 10:09 PM   #1769
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The forester didn't take as much prodding to get up to highway speed as much as the XV needed (same onramp). At that, the 6MT in the Forester runs about +/-1k RPM lower (and subsequently quieter) than the 5MT Crosstrek.

--kC
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:30 PM   #1770
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Right. And it comes full circle to this.

As a couple that doesn't have kids or a family, I don't *need* one over the other due to space restrictions or comfort & convenience. And that's the confusing part, because they're the same price.
With big dogs, there would be no way I'd get an Impreza-type car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Just wondering if that's an additional advantage of a base Forester vs a Crosstrek. The Forester is also supposed to be one of the quietest Subarus made, and I've heard from Crosstrek testers that it can be a bit noisy, so that may be an additional check mark in the Forester's column as well.
Dunno why it would be any different, other than the roof rails on the XV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC View Post
The forester didn't take as much prodding to get up to highway speed as much as the XV needed (same onramp). At that, the 6MT in the Forester runs about +/-1k RPM lower (and subsequently quieter) than the 5MT Crosstrek.

--kC
Like what kind of revs?

You could always embrace technology and get the CVT. ~2200rpm at 75mph.

At least with an auto transmission on a not very powerful engine, you won't have to downshift while climbing hills on the highway, or be watching the speedo fall as you give it all it's got.

Or is straining up a hill like a pack of hippies headed to a concert in a VW bus what's considered "fun to drive?"

Last edited by richde; 03-12-2013 at 11:36 PM.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:48 PM   #1771
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Originally Posted by GodWhomIsMike View Post
But you can't get an XT model of the Crosstrek.
True, but the discussion was about whether to get a better-equipped Crosstrek or a lower-equipped Forester.

Personally, I'd just get the XT and skip the debate.
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Old 03-12-2013, 11:55 PM   #1772
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Dunno why it would be any different, other than the roof rails on the XV.
Different vehicle w/different aerodynamics, different engine, different acoustics, different insulation?

I wasn't speaking of the quietness of the base model Forester due to lack of rails, but of the entire Forester lineup.

This is all speculation and/or anecdotal anyway. Just trying to consider ways in which the Forester could still be a better deal than Crosstrek for some buyers, even if space is not a consideration.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:03 AM   #1773
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...and a Manual is usually quicker than a CVT on almost all accounts.

Man. You need to come and show me this. We played with a manual vs CVT for a good half hour trying to see that. Swapping cars several times and the manual never won. It "felt" faster though.
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Old 03-13-2013, 12:15 AM   #1774
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Man. You need to come and show me this. We played with a manual vs CVT for a good half hour trying to see that. Swapping cars several times and the manual never won. It "felt" faster though.

2012 Impreza 2.0 5MT is mid to high 8 sec 0-60 with the CVT being .5 sec slower than that.

Not sure why you think it is ground breaking the CVT is slower than the manual.
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:34 AM   #1775
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Dunno why it would be any different, other than the roof rails on the XV.
Window angle, window thickness, different roof (slopes more where the glass meets the body), they even have little rubber thingies on the bottom of each door to seal in the cabin a bit more (and sweep the sills). And of course, different engine that doesn't require the RPMs to get up to speed (doesn't have to work as hard). Insulation?

Quote:
Like what kind of revs?
In order to get the 5MT XV up to highway speed on the same route I took the forester, I had to wind it up to 6k rpms in 1st and 2nd (short downhill ramp to a 65mph zone) and I was only able to get it to around 55-60mph by the time it came time to the merge point.

In the forester, I short shifted at 4k rpms (1-2 and 2-3) and was at 65 about 20 yds before the merge point. Why 4k and not wind it up also? I had a theory and that theory was proven correct: I didn't have to. The forester has more power, more torque and makes better use of the gearing (never mind other than a slightly shorter 1st, it's the same gearing!).

On the highway at 70, I was cruising at around 3000 rpms in the Forester in 6th. In the XV, you're pushing around 3800-4000 rpms in 5th.

Quote:
You could always embrace technology and get the CVT. ~2200rpm at 75mph.

At least with an auto transmission on a not very powerful engine, you won't have to downshift while climbing hills on the highway, or be watching the speedo fall as you give it all it's got.

Or is straining up a hill like a pack of hippies headed to a concert in a VW bus what's considered "fun to drive?"
I'll tell you why I like the Subaru MT over Subarus CVT or Automatic: The MT's 50/50 drivetrain in the snow. Simple, easy, not computer controlled and I know what will happen when driving in the winter.

By the way, the CVT is not an automatic. Please don't confuse the two. There is no torque converter in a CVT. It's a different type of transmission.


Quote:
Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Different vehicle w/different aerodynamics, different engine, different acoustics, different insulation?

I wasn't speaking of the quietness of the base model Forester due to lack of rails, but of the entire Forester lineup.

This is all speculation and/or anecdotal anyway. Just trying to consider ways in which the Forester could still be a better deal than Crosstrek for some buyers, even if space is not a consideration.
The quiteness is not speculation. It's been observed it's that much quieter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Man. You need to come and show me this. We played with a manual vs CVT for a good half hour trying to see that. Swapping cars several times and the manual never won. It "felt" faster though.
New, or broken in? That link I provided above breaks down the times recorded. How did you do your measuring, with lights/triggers/sensors or a stopwatch?

This is the last post I make comparing the Forester to the XV. I've taken it off topic a bit and I apologize.

--kC
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