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Old 07-12-2021, 05:55 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default EU plotting ban on combustion engines from 2035

EU plotting ban on combustion engines from 2035
John Mahoney

New laws also set to require emissions from cars and vans to be slashed by 65 per cent by 2030

Draft proposals from the European Union have confirmed that a complete ban on the sale of combustion-powered vehicles will be implemented within the region from 2035.

According to Bloomberg, which has seen early outlines of the EU’s ambitious climate targets, new regulations will also force car-makers to slash emissions of cars and vans by 65 per cent by 2030 in a bid to move to net zero emissions within 14 years.

Member states will also have to play their part, according to the draft legislation, with detailed plans that will force European countries to expand their public charging networks to support the surge in electric vehicles.

As well as boosting the infrastructure, new laws will also ensure the total amount of electricity from renewable sources is ramped up from 32 per cent to 40 per cent by 2030.

Set to be officially published next month, the draft regulations governing transport emissions will be just one part of the EU plans to slash greenhouse gases by at least 55 per cent from 1990 levels.

By 2050, further measures will have been introduced governing the economy, transport and industry to ensure Europe reaches its net zero emissions target.
Originally, the car industry was told by the EU to brace itself for a 37.5 per cent reduction in emissions by 2030 – far lower than the slated 65 per cent target.
Some industry commentators have suggested the new mandatory reduction will effectively kill off many combustion-powered cars by 2030, particularly smaller vehicles.

This is because the amount of emissions control equipment needed would ramp up their price tag to levels that would not be affordable for the average buyer.
Pre-empting the more radical proposals, Volkswagen has already announced 70 per cent of its new cars will be pure-electric by 2030, while rival Renault estimates 90 per cent of its range will be battery-powered.

Ford, meanwhile, has announced it entire European line-up will be electric before the end of this decade.

Helping owners switch to electric cars will be new rules that will require electric chargers to be installed every 60km on highways. Mandatory hydrogen refuelling points will also be introduced every 150km.

Once the draft legislation is introduced, the new laws will not automatically be adopted as member states are given time to lobby for changes and amendments that could see the targets watered down, although this is unlikely.
Currently passenger cars account for 12 per cent of total CO2 emissions in Europe.
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Old 07-12-2021, 12:48 PM   #2
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Most of Europe doesn’t even have AC in houses and hotels because of the weak electrical grid. I am curious to see this play out.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:54 PM   #3
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With people who previously had mobility having none. Rich people unaffected.
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Old 07-12-2021, 01:59 PM   #4
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:00 PM   #5
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Most of Europe doesn't even have AC in houses and hotels because of the weak electrical grid. I am curious to see this play out.

Peace,

Greg
Hmm, really? I wonder if this is why our French plant doesn't have AC... I can't even imagine.
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:22 PM   #6
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Invisible hand!
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:41 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Most of Europe doesn’t even have AC in houses and hotels because of the weak electrical grid. I am curious to see this play out.

Peace,

Greg
Some countries in Europe have decent grids. France, for instance, is 80% nuclear and most of the rest is hydro with a little bit of wind+solar.
People just don't want to spend money on AC if they don't need to; but, they are slowly changing their stance as summers have been getting hotter (summer of '03 was a killer).

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With people who previously had mobility having none. Rich people unaffected.
Maybe. Depending on the country and the area, public transportation can be a very good option. Trains, trams, metros and busses.
The issue is going to be in non-urban areas, much less populated, somewhat more isolated.
They might get one bus doing the rounds between tiny towns, villages and hamlets (if that...).
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Old 07-12-2021, 02:47 PM   #8
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Maybe. Depending on the country and the area, public transportation can be a very good option. Trains, trams, metros and busses.
The issue is going to be in non-urban areas, much less populated, somewhat more isolated.
They might get one bus doing the rounds between tiny towns, villages and hamlets (if that...).
Eh, the idea of public transit is not very appealing for true independent movement. Either way, rich people unaffected.
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Old 07-12-2021, 10:02 PM   #9
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Eh, the idea of public transit is not very appealing for true independent movement. Either way, rich people unaffected.
I understand and respect being independent.
But, in Europe, people view mass transportation differently, it's not about relinquishing one's independence, it's more about getting to wherever you need to be as quickly and as cheaply as possible.
And, in Europe, a lot of the times, driving is not the cheapest or fastest option once you factor toll roads, fuel price, insurance and so on.
IMO, the truly rich and wealthy always remain unaffected no matter what decisions are being implemented. Transportation is pretty much a non-issue for them.
Unless, of course, they are heavily invested in oil...
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Old 07-12-2021, 10:23 PM   #10
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Quote:
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With people who previously had mobility having none. Rich people unaffected.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
I understand and respect being independent.
But, in Europe, people view mass transportation differently, it's not about relinquishing one's independence, it's more about getting to wherever you need to be as quickly and as cheaply as possible.
And, in Europe, a lot of the times, driving is not the cheapest or fastest option once you factor toll roads, fuel price, insurance and so on.
IMO, the truly rich and wealthy always remain unaffected no matter what decisions are being implemented. Transportation is pretty much a non-issue for them.
Unless, of course, they are heavily invested in oil...
Agreed with both..... This is beneath their problems.
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Old 07-13-2021, 10:21 AM   #11
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Most of Europe doesn’t even have AC in houses and hotels because of the weak electrical grid. I am curious to see this play out.

Peace,

Greg
This is deeply steeped in culture and amplified by high electricity rates.
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Old 07-13-2021, 01:22 PM   #12
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Could be. I just spent some time the last two years in Germany. The average house where I was was 220, single phase with a 30 amp service. Most complained about the cost of power. How are going to add a 220 vac 20-30 amp charger to that service?

One guy, had the city make his fireplaces illegal. He was in the process of having it removed by a certified contractor that would fill out the paper work for the city. Said it cost him 3,000 Erous. The city outlawed it because of emissions. He was not sure how he was going to hear him house next winter.

Absolutely crazy.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 07-13-2021, 02:08 PM   #13
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Yeah, the communists are up in arms about wood burning stoves and fireplaces in the US too. It's crazy all over.
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Old 07-13-2021, 02:24 PM   #14
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This is deeply steeped in culture and amplified by high electricity rates.
Yes, I agree, it's mostly a culture thing; at least up to a point .
However, in France for instance, the kWh is cheaper than what I pay today in Cali.
In average I pay about $0.35 per kWh with PG&E.
In France, for instance, I'd be paying 0.16 Euros per kWh in average. It's less.
But, I'd also have a much lower salary as well...

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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Could be. I just spent some time the last two years in Germany. The average house where I was was 220, single phase with a 30 amp service. Most complained about the cost of power. How are going to add a 220 vac 20-30 amp charger to that service?

One guy, had the city make his fireplaces illegal. He was in the process of having it removed by a certified contractor that would fill out the paper work for the city. Said it cost him 3,000 Erous. The city outlawed it because of emissions. He was not sure how he was going to hear him house next winter.

Absolutely crazy.

Peace,

Greg
I don't know what's up with Germany, but, I'm familiar with France, and residential service goes up to 90 amp single phase or 60 amp 3-phase for 0.16 Euros per kWh (in average).

Here's the rate sheet from EDF with service levels: https://particulier.edf.fr/content/d...Tarif_Bleu.pdf
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Old 07-13-2021, 03:46 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Some countries in Europe have decent grids. France, for instance, is 80% nuclear and most of the rest is hydro with a little bit of wind+solar.
People just don't want to spend money on AC if they don't need to; but, they are slowly changing their stance as summers have been getting hotter (summer of '03 was a killer).

You're right on both counts. Interestingly, Nukes don't back down much to follow load. They just sit there and run. Those crafty Swiss pay very little for France's nuclear power at night and use the electricity to pump water uphill. When peak loads exceed nukes capacity they drop the water down through hydro generators and sell for more Euro dollar bit bucks.


My home town of San Jose used to be one of those places where almost nobody had AC because it wasn't necessary. Not the case anymore and lots of folks are retrofitting their HVAC to do both heating and cooling.
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Old 07-13-2021, 04:26 PM   #16
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When I lived in Oakland, my apartment had windows that tilted but never fully sealed. I don't remember if it even had a wall heater. If it did, we never used it. Perfect temp year round and a pool for those scorching 79 degree days. lol
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Old 07-13-2021, 04:45 PM   #17
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Lot of cultures see A/C as wasteful and extravagant. When I loved in the US South, it was considered very rude and miserly to not run A/C (almost every house has at least a window A/C) if you had a guest over. Nothing says "I don't care about your comfort" than to have people come over there sitting in sticky humid house so you can save a couple bucks.

As for banning ICE, well the EU is going to have kick in a ton of subsidies to get there, that's for sure. That means a lot of money being printed and possibly inflation, as nobody wants to raise taxes to pay for stuff.
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