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Old 07-01-2010, 04:50 AM   #1301
rubinm
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whaaa? dude why is your boost coming on so late with a TD04 sized turbo?? looks like you start making serious boost around 4400RPM -ish?
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:46 AM   #1302
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Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
whaaa? dude why is your boost coming on so late with a TD04 sized turbo?? looks like you start making serious boost around 4400RPM -ish?
I agree that looks funny. Thats about 800-900 RPM slower than my 19T was.

Prob due to the altitude and the dyno not loading the motor like a real road. A log would show what was up.
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Old 07-01-2010, 08:56 AM   #1303
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^^ I was going to say the altitude has a little effect. The air is thinner to start with, so its going to take a little longer to build boost. I still expected it to be a little better than that though. I'll have to browse back through and look at Ken's logs...I think his spools up faster, but he's working with a clipped L wheel, not an H wheel.




With all the recent failures we've seen from 19T turbos, regardless of manufacturer, I'm tempted to go the 16G route. My 19T still hasn't been rebuilt, not that I'm pushing him to get it done. I'm just hesitant to risk having another one die on me. So far its looking like Ken is the only one with a quality built 19T, and its too bad Deadbolt isn't in business anymore.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:22 PM   #1304
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Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
Prob due to the altitude and the dyno not loading the motor like a real road. A log would show what was up.
Harvey's Dyno has no problems loading cars, i see normal boost curves come off his dyno all the time - to include my own.

Somethin else is up with that - either it still has leaks or something else.


that curve looks like a 30r sized turbo. (minus the peak hp.)
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:52 PM   #1305
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ForesterWti,
Wow, if your full boosting at 4500k rpm you might as well get the Evo316g turbo that boosts at 3800rpm AND makes more power. 260awhp 240wtq.. ouch. Los PT turbo es no bueno.

Not trying to pick a fight but 1 thing I will mention is that, those dynos that you key in corrections and whatnot are sketchy to a lot of us tuners. The real way to see what your putting down is trap speed in the 1/4 mile. That way we know that the dyno is set up right. Because 30hp after correction is a lot.

BTW 230awhp on a stock STi seems about right even at 0 C/F on that dyno. Stock WRXs dyno at 150-160awhp. I don't know why you would need 1.28 c/f for your run.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:53 PM   #1306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
Harvey's Dyno has no problems loading cars, i see normal boost curves come off his dyno all the time - to include my own.

Somethin else is up with that - either it still has leaks or something else.


that curve looks like a 30r sized turbo. (minus the peak hp.)
Exactly, to me it looks like low boost 20G curve.
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:09 PM   #1307
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Originally Posted by xsnapshot View Post
Go with a small 16G!

I just got it on, and its spooling quicker than my 19T was. Yes even with the TD05 turbine wheel and the 7cm^2 hotside.
.
I told all of you guys this pages back that if you wanted more power than the B19T to get a small 16g and not do the PT19T. BUT you should change post to PT19T not just 19T. The Blouch would spool faster than a small 16g.
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:26 PM   #1308
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Originally Posted by erikkellison View Post
I think everyone here might like to know that my 8 month old 19T just blew on me.
I had it running 16-17 lbs boost with a conservative tune. It blew while driving up the pass at somewhere between 7k and 9k feet. I think it may have been stressed by a rallycross race that was 95 degrees, and the turbo may have overheated. But it is frustrating because I bought the turbo new and had it installed by my tuner. I even called Blouch about it, and they haven't gotten back to me. Frustrating.
I'm definitely switching brands.
It is worth noting that Mitsubishi apparently recommends that the stock turbo housing should not be rebuilt, so despite it being a "new" 19T, it's not really all new, which is why some people I've talked to think it might have blown (besides the driving fast at high temps).
I used to endorse this turbo as a great, fast-spooling turbo for quick acceleration and daily driving, but no longer. My next turbo will be factory new, and from a different company that offers some backing behind their product.

It's the combination of rallying your car, high 95* temps, high altitudes and overheating the turbo caused it to fail. Any turbo would. You said you had it for 8 months. I think that is a lot of time for what your doing. Also remember when you run your car at a rally, rallycross, track day, autox, you should change oil every 4-6 weeks regardless of miles sometimes right after racing depending how long your session was.

I wouldn't listen to my friends. These turbos are easy and cheap to rebuild as long as the right place is doing it. Send your turbo to Blouch and have a great turbo again, and run an oil cooler. Case closed.
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:32 PM   #1309
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Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
whaaa? dude why is your boost coming on so late with a TD04 sized turbo?? looks like you start making serious boost around 4400RPM -ish?
We had no idea why. We had problems with my MBC (which is brand new, a Hallman Pro RX w/ hard spring), and also no matter what he did, he couldn't get this set up to spool faster. Harvey said he did not like this turbo... He did go on to say that this IS great power for TD04's for his dyno for a 2.0. He said that I was one of the highest he's seen with a "stockie" turbo.

Look at my CF:1.28 dyno plot, I stay over 240 awhp from 5000 rpm through redline! I did not expect this to happen, my PT "Monstah" is basically all top end and acting more like a 16g --- but with some wicked serious pull! Harvey and I took her for a road plot, and he looked at me after a 2-3-4th pull, smiled at me that then broke into us both laughing. He said something along the lines of: "Whoa Wolf! This is a really fun set up!"

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

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Old 07-01-2010, 03:39 PM   #1310
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oh yeah not knocking your top end power.. but man its odd that thing spools so slowly. i wonder if it has to do with your custom wastegate divider.

are you FMIC?? that would make it spool slower too.

tuning with Harv is fun. when he tuned my HTA68 on e85 we both had a good laugh when we took it out for some road pulls.

one thing for your credit is that the PT monstah really does hold much better up top than a stock TD04.
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:42 PM   #1311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
Harvey's Dyno has no problems loading cars, i see normal boost curves come off his dyno all the time - to include my own.

Somethin else is up with that - either it still has leaks or something else.


that curve looks like a 30r sized turbo. (minus the peak hp.)
Yeah, He noticed something was up right after we started trying for more boost... notice we stopped at just 17.5psi? He was having a hard time making a normal boost curve, some runs she just let off completely at just mid-rpm. He did not like this turbo --- so much that he actually ended up calling Performance Techniques to find out if they had a high speed balancer for the building of this style TD04. He talked with James for a bit, civil convo for sure, and found out that they do have a balance machine but not the kind that Harvey was asking about (aka not high rpm spinning).

I had 3 boost leaks that we tested for before my tune, please read my big write up "Dyno Day!" posting... They were all taken care of perfectly, so leaks were not an issue on my tune. He said it was the turbo. He also said he has never seen a TD04 run like this. He liked the fun factor of pulling to redline with this small of a turbo. (which is cool with me because I know my motor and tranny at 122k is for sure safe running on this tune.)

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 07-01-2010, 03:55 PM   #1312
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Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post
Yeah, He noticed something was up right after we started trying for more boost... notice we stopped at just 17.5psi? He was having a hard time making a normal boost curve, some runs she just let off completely at just mid-rpm. He did not like this turbo --- so much that he actually ended up calling Performance Techniques to find out if they had a high speed balancer for the building of this style TD04. He talked with James for a bit, civil convo for sure, and found out that they do have a balance machine but not the kind that Harvey was asking about (aka not high rpm spinning).

I had 3 boost leaks that we tested for before my tune, please read my big write up "Dyno Day!" posting... They were all taken care of perfectly, so leaks were not an issue on my tune. He said it was the turbo. He also said he has never seen a TD04 run like this. He liked the fun factor of pulling to redline with this small of a turbo. (which is cool with me because I know my motor and tranny at 122k is for sure safe running on this tune.)

Cheers,
~Wolf
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You had close to the same numbers I did.. I got 250whp/240qtq at 18psi with my pt 19t.. but I hit full boost at 3500rpm with very little spool modes and a 3 port.. consider a 3 port over a manual bc it may help.. hitting full boost at 4500rpm is messed.. as for pt not having the high speed balancer.. some what concerning.. was he refering to vsr balancing?

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Old 07-01-2010, 03:55 PM   #1313
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Originally Posted by PAImportTuner View Post
ForesterWti,
Wow, if your full boosting at 4500k rpm you might as well get the Evo316g turbo that boosts at 3800rpm AND makes more power. 260awhp 240wtq.. ouch. Los PT turbo es no bueno.

Not trying to pick a fight but 1 thing I will mention is that, those dynos that you key in corrections and whatnot are sketchy to a lot of us tuners. The real way to see what your putting down is trap speed in the 1/4 mile. That way we know that the dyno is set up right. Because 30hp after correction is a lot.

BTW 230awhp on a stock STi seems about right even at 0 C/F on that dyno. Stock WRXs dyno at 150-160awhp. I don't know why you would need 1.28 c/f for your run.
No offense taken, I can't nor would I run a turbo THAT big on this older 02 wrx swap, she has 122k miles on the clock and tranny. This is a safe and fun turbo upgrade. I have no way of getting a 1/4 mile trap, and I'm not going to the strip ever. We did not use CF for any runs at all. Harvey doesn't believe in the numbers game aka zero correction. At the end of the day after we got a boost curve that we liked on 17.5psi --- putting down 234.5awhp --- for the proven power bragging thread he just went in and printed out a CF dyno plot, for my temps ect the CF was 1.28, thus the 262.5 awhp.

I am very happy to own a 1995 wagon valued at $7.5k that has 4.5 awhp more than an STi valued at $29k, not to mention that I'm 500lbs lighter.

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:10 PM   #1314
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You had close to the same numbers I did.. I got 250whp/240qtq at 18psi with my pt 19t.. but I hit full boost at 3500rpm with very little spool modes and a port.. consider a 3 port over a manual bc it may help.. hitting full boost at 4500rpm is messed.. as for pt not having the high spped balancer.. some what concerning..
I know right! Having boost 1000 rpm's sooner would be wicked. I did however get over the 250 awhp and 240 awtq level, even if it was just a bit. We had to mess around with my MBC for a few runs... The guy who rents out the lift in Harvey's shop, Mike, is a Grimm dealer/rep. We all talked about the 3 port, it's something I WILL be putting in .

It's just a shame that I have to leave for Cali this weekend . I would order it today and go for a tune early next week if I could. Hopefully I can find a 4wheel dyno near me and get another tune BUT now at sea level . Although, the drive back to CO in 12 months would suck. I do not mind running rich at sea level fun-fun, but I dooo mind the other way around haha... so we will see.

I do not know if Harvey was talking about a VSR balance machine, but he said that what they did have was OK, and he kind of ruled that out as being a big issue from that call he made to PT.

Cheers,
~Wolf
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Old 07-01-2010, 04:37 PM   #1315
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Originally Posted by rubinm View Post
oh yeah not knocking your top end power.. but man its odd that thing spools so slowly. i wonder if it has to do with your custom wastegate divider.

are you FMIC?? that would make it spool slower too.

tuning with Harv is fun. when he tuned my HTA68 on e85 we both had a good laugh when we took it out for some road pulls.

one thing for your credit is that the PT monstah really does hold much better up top than a stock TD04.
So after we fun-pulled around on the street, we chilled at the shop with Mike for a bit an obvi talked Subies. Harvey actually has the almost exact DP (non adapted) that I have from Vishnu (his is 1 piece not 2). When we were looking around at my set up to see what could be impeding my final output numbers... the TMIC coupler is not a straight shot. This is found with BIG aftermarket tmic's. Mine is almost 22" long and has a 4.5" thick core. The tmic will be a little higher than the throttle body, so the coupler has a bend in it. APS makes a coupler that has the bend built into it ($70-$100). Don't get me wrong it is a perfect seal, but Harvey said that because of it not being a straight shot, it probably comes with the cost of 10 awhp. I may sell/trade it to someone who has a bigger turbo than I??? It cools VERY well, but I want that extra 10 awhp for sure. He went on to heckle me in the fact that if I had the time to put in my KS Tech phenolic spacers that it would be straight haha. Also my AEM filter is not very clean and is pretty beat up. This used to be a CAI but I deleted the elbow in the fender and made her a SRI. So from being in the fender (of a GF8) it was pretty gross. Harvey said that could have cost me 5 awhp.

So with those two issues resolved and a Grimm 3port installed, I think that my boost should hit quicker aaand will result in a 15 awhp increase.

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

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Old 07-01-2010, 05:06 PM   #1316
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what mbc are you running? what problems were you having with it?

10whp from the turbo coupler is

how straight is fmic piping?

15whp from cleaning a filter and getting a hose that doesnt have a little kink in it......so those 2 things are gonna net you the same hp as a 19T upgrade

and an ebcs will not make ur boost hit quicker than a mbc.....unless the mbc is messed up.....
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Old 07-01-2010, 06:10 PM   #1317
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what mbc are you running? what problems were you having with it?

10whp from the turbo coupler is

how straight is fmic piping?

15whp from cleaning a filter and getting a hose that doesn't have a little kink in it......so those 2 things are gonna net you the same hp as a 19T upgrade

and an ebcs will not make ur boost hit quicker than a mbc.....unless the mbc is messed up.....
+1 to all of that. You'll never see faster boost than with a properly functioning MBC. Your slow spool must be caused by something else.
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Old 07-01-2010, 07:24 PM   #1318
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what mbc are you running? what problems were you having with it?

10whp from the turbo coupler is

how straight is fmic piping?

15whp from cleaning a filter and getting a hose that doesnt have a little kink in it......so those 2 things are gonna net you the same hp as a 19T upgrade

and an ebcs will not make ur boost hit quicker than a mbc.....unless the mbc is messed up.....
The coupler for the TMIC/TB is really bent, around a quarter of an inch from lining up straight to the TB. Yes we do believe that raising the intake manny or going to a smaller TMIC will help the restriction of flow between the TB and the TMIC.

Cleaning/replacing the air filter, if it's a tray filter or pod, does help with performance. Think about it, if it's clogged or collapsed to the point where it is more restrictive than flowing... your not going to get a right read on the MAS.

I am using a TMIC, not a FMIC.

I know. I know. This is all that I have to relay back to this forum from my real life tuning and tuner's feedback.

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

P.S. For the record, I went from 180awhp to 234.5awhp (CR:0) with the PT "Monstah" and supporting mods. I'd say I only paid $1000 for EVERYTHING (tune included). IMO it is totally worth it .

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Old 07-01-2010, 09:08 PM   #1319
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Originally Posted by ForesterWTi View Post

I am very happy to own a 1995 wagon valued at $7.5k that has 4.5 awhp more than an STi valued at $29k, not to mention that I'm 500lbs lighter.

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

Well i gotta fire back at that!


I make your peak 260whp at 3500rpm. Then i go on to make 85 more whp and hold it out to 7200rpm.. on my STi.

haha i kid i kid.. not pickin a fight just keepin it interesting
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:12 PM   #1320
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Wolf,
An Evo316G will spool faster and make same/more power at same/less psi. There is nothing to worry about breaking on your car. I'm sorry something is seriously wrong with the car or tuner. That 19T should be the same hp/tq but 1000 rpm sooner. Maybe even more tq.

What size injector do you have? This has to be a super conservative timing down low.
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:25 PM   #1321
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Agreed on the Evo316g.

the tuner is not the problem, hes quickly becoming one of the top tuners in the western states, so much so that COBB is turning their customers to him since they closed their Utah location... so that puts that out of the question.... has to be Turbo or some other aspect of the setup.
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:03 AM   #1322
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Wolf,
An Evo316G will spool faster and make same/more power at same/less psi. There is nothing to worry about breaking on your car. I'm sorry something is seriously wrong with the car or tuner. That 19T should be the same hp/tq but 1000 rpm sooner. Maybe even more tq.

What size injector do you have? This has to be a super conservative timing down low.
Something is wrong with this hotside wheel, I thought by going with the H aka smallest trim but close to HL/TE04H size inducer/exducer would be the bee's knees as far as spool and top end were considered...

Power Enterprise 650cc injectors.

And I am at kind of advanced, dispite her miles (122k) the motor liked it so we went with it, not tooo aggressive but there.

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi
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Old 07-02-2010, 12:57 AM   #1323
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Default The point...

I just wanted to say that the point of this thread is 2.0 wrx's running a 19T upgraded TD04...

I know the small FP16g is fun (I had one in my 04FXT), I would LOVE the HTA68, I've ran a VF22 in a 98 LeggyGT, the Blouch standard 19T is wicked, I've had a limited 06 rex wagon, but I'm just trying to go for a FUN/reliable TD04 stage 2.5 set up in a 2.0L... at 4.5 awhp more than a stock STi my prototype DP and PT's hotside upgrade complimenting the 19T compressor side is a step in the right direction for IWG'ed TD04 2.0's.

I hit 130mph today with ease WITH 4 ADULTS in my GF8 "Pink Vader" we all together did a few 60-100 sprints in 4th and some 80-130 sprints from 4th to 5th --- ALL of the runs were amazingly fast and strong in terms of pull strength. My PT "Monstah" may hit towards the 4000's to top end, but it's a lot of pull till red line . And that's now at 520miles on the turbo at 7k ft with the boost turned down to 16psi on pump 91 gas!

Cheers,
~Wolf
WTi

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Old 07-02-2010, 09:40 AM   #1324
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Wolf can you post a datalog to show how this spools on the street in 3rd?
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Old 07-02-2010, 11:11 AM   #1325
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Wolf can you post a datalog to show how this spools on the street in 3rd?
That would be interesting to see.

Wolf, I'm sure that car is fun on the top end, but as others have said it's a bit perplexing that the 19T is having those results! I know you mentioned the silicone coupler on the intercooler as a potential issue, though I'm curious as to what intercooler you're running? I know you mentioned earlier that it was pretty big.

I just bought that hyperflow, so I'm hoping that I don't run into any late spool issues with it.

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