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Old 06-05-2009, 08:10 AM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Chrysler hiding Viper bid?

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A California congressman asked Chrysler LLC to disclose information on a $35 million bid for the Dodge Viper line, saying the offer had been hidden from the company's bankruptcy case.

Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Calif., said in a letter to Chrysler Chief Executive Bob Nardelli that the lack of disclosure about the bid suggests the Chrysler bankruptcy was being mishandled, and asked for proof that Fiat SpA was not trying to eliminate a competitor to its Ferrari unit.

But in a statement, Chrysler said prior to its bankruptcy "no offers meeting the Company’s basic requirements for the sale of Viper assets were submitted."

As part of its bankruptcy, Chrysler has said only one buyer had come forward since the case began for the two-seat sports car, offering $5.5 million. The company's financial adviser, Robert Manzo, told a bankruptcy court last month that the company had received nothing "resembling a serious offer requiring further consideration."

According to Issa, a group of investors had explored a purchase of the Viper business in March and April of this year, and had even spoken with Louisiana officials about their plan. The office has a record of a draft sales agreement that was never signed, but the documents don't indicate why the proposal was never completed.

Issa asked Nardelli to share other documents detailing the proposed sale by June 9, and warned that Chrysler should have been more forthcoming about the bid.

"If it is the case that Fiat used its 'hard-fought' superior bargaining position to establish as a condition of the merger a requirement that Chrysler allow the Viper brand to disappear in order to reduce competition for Ferrari, this too must be presented to the court.

Chrysler has agreed to sell most of its assets to a new Fiat-Chrysler partnership, and hopes to close the deal in a matter of days. A federal appeals court will hear arguments Friday from Chrysler investors seeking to block the plan
http://www.freep.com/article/2009060...078/1014/rss13
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Old 06-05-2009, 08:59 AM   #2
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Just how much money do they want for as they describe it "two-seat sports car" .. because that is all the Viper brand is ... a single car that was never the best at what it did.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:24 AM   #3
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Never the best at what it did? I think it did pretty damn well on this last itteration, especialy the ACR version. Go look up the nurburgring (spelling?) times for that badass. It beat both the ZR1 and the GTR, both cars that can be considered extremely good performance bargains. For a car who's intended purpose was to be amoderately priced, no frills, go-fast racecar that could be driven on the streets, it did an exceptional job.

That being said, that 5.5million dollar big must have been from NASIOC member cause that's some crazy low-balling right there!

If I had some cash, some serious coin, I'd buy this branch and have my own car company and race team. It would be sweet as hell for the right price. And in reality, you could probably produce limited numbers of the current viper for the next 10 years and still have a line of customers and changes you manage to make would only be a plus.
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Old 06-05-2009, 11:26 AM   #4
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Also, I guess I don't get the point of this story other than it sounds like the congressman is a huge Viper fan. What the hell does he care about the survival of some niche vehicle that is a drop in the Chrysler bucket?
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:24 PM   #5
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Never the best at what it did? I think it did pretty damn well on this last itteration, especialy the ACR version. Go look up the nurburgring (spelling?) times for that badass. It beat both the ZR1 and the GTR, both cars that can be considered extremely good performance bargains. For a car who's intended purpose was to be amoderately priced, no frills, go-fast racecar that could be driven on the streets, it did an exceptional job.

That being said, that 5.5million dollar big must have been from NASIOC member cause that's some crazy low-balling right there!

If I had some cash, some serious coin, I'd buy this branch and have my own car company and race team. It would be sweet as hell for the right price. And in reality, you could probably produce limited numbers of the current viper for the next 10 years and still have a line of customers and changes you manage to make would only be a plus.
The ACR is a RACECAR with truck engine....It comes with race car aero and race car tires.

The Corvette and GT-R are cars you can drive to work every day.
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:51 PM   #6
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I understand. I was simply replying to the poster saying it was never the best at what it did. I was simply showing that it was pretty damn good at what it did. And even the street version of the viper (non-acr) offers some very impressive performance.

And this whole driving it to work everyday arguement is bunk. You could definately drive this to work everyday. Comfort is subjective and dependent on a variety of factors. I know plenty of daily driver WRX's that are probably just as impractical as the ACR (no ac, stiff as hell suspension, race tires etc, low body kit). Shoot, 30% of americans probably drive a car that is less road worthy cause their cars are old broken down crap boxes. It's the same sort of lame ass arguement as " I'd rather have abc car cause you'd get more chicks than xyz car". It's not a true performance measure and its dependent on the person.
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Old 06-05-2009, 01:53 PM   #7
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It's also far from a truck engine as you describe it. Aside from the viper truck, the dodge rams do not have the same V10. This V10 was designed by engineers from Dodge and Lamborghini. True story.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:20 PM   #8
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It's also far from a truck engine as you describe it. Aside from the viper truck, the dodge rams do not have the same V10. This V10 was designed by engineers from Dodge and Lamborghini. True story.
Yup, Lambo was given the design by Dodge when Chrysler bought them, and told to make it a supercar engine. So the basis of the design was the truck engine, but it is completely different including most of the castings. That was the first gen engine, from what I have gathered the newer powerplants are even more unique.
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Old 06-05-2009, 03:56 PM   #9
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The normal Viper has 2 more cylinders and yet is slower than the Corvette and the GT-R round a track (I think)
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:21 PM   #10
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It has 2 more cylinders than the vette and 4 more than the GTR. Point? And is it slower than the base vette or the z06? You have to compare base models to base models to be fair. It is probably slower than the GTR base for base, but I don't know about the base vette or even the z06. I've never seen a test to know. It does not make sense to compare the base viper to a zr1 or spec v.
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:37 PM   #11
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nm, misread

Last edited by Skunkers; 06-05-2009 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:42 PM   #12
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I was curious about the times so I did some googling. At

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordscheife_fastest_lap_times

It looks like the only base model times the have for the vette and the viper are (newest models recorded)

7:59 - C6 corvette z51driven by GM
7:59 - 2005 Viper SRT-10 driven by Motor Trend

However, that was the 2005 viper with 500bhp. The 2009 has 600bhp. I would imagine it would be faster, but I can only find the 2009 ARC viper's times.

Note: this has nothing to do with the OP, just a side discussion.
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Old 06-05-2009, 05:44 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluiten View Post

It has 2 more cylinders than the vette and 4 more than the GTR. Point? And is it slower than the base vette or the z06? You have to compare base models to base models to be fair. It is probably slower than the GTR base for base, but I don't know about the base vette or even the z06. I've never seen a test to know. It does not make sense to compare the base viper to a zr1 or spec v.
Um... what the hell are you talking about?

The base Viper's 1/4 mile of 11.5 at 126mph is faster than a base Corvette and GT-R, I assure you.
Sorry, I was talking ring times, not 1/4 mile. I know it's faster there, but that's not what rypt and I were discussing I think.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:01 PM   #14
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Yeah, I edited it already.
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Old 06-07-2009, 11:02 AM   #15
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Stop using a race prepped car for your comparisons. If you want to do that break out the Vette and GT-R race prep cars to make it accurate.
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Old 06-07-2009, 10:53 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by rypt View Post
Just how much money do they want for as they describe it "two-seat sports car" .. because that is all the Viper brand is ... a single car that was never the best at what it did.
Go read performance comparisons since '92.

C6LS3 < 4thGenViperSRT < C6Z06 < 4thGenViperCC < C6ZR1 < 4thGenACR

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Old 06-08-2009, 08:11 AM   #17
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The ZR1 is less "radical" than the ACR and still has 2 fewer cylinders
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Old 06-08-2009, 09:50 AM   #18
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The ZR1 is less "radical" than the ACR and still has 2 fewer cylinders
The number of cylinders has nothing to do with it. I don't understand why people are constantly harping on this point.
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Old 06-08-2009, 10:27 AM   #19
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The number of cylinders has nothing to do with it. I don't understand why people are constantly harping on this point.
Correct. Look at this little beast, in an Ariel Atom no less.

500hp, NA, 2.4L V8, 10k RPM.

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Old 06-08-2009, 12:08 PM   #20
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Stop using a race prepped car for your comparisons. If you want to do that break out the Vette and GT-R race prep cars to make it accurate.
What is race prepped about the SRT-10 Viper versus the Z51 Corvette? See my post below.

I thought it was fair to compare the two. You're right, maybe the ACR is not correct to use in a comparrison, but then again it still beat the ZR1 which is a factory race prepped machine as well.

But that's neither here nor there. The viper is a sweet machine, but tends to get dogged on due to its rough, no frills nature.

Arguing what car is best based solely on lap times is fairly dumb.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kpluiten View Post
I was curious about the times so I did some googling. At

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordsch...test_lap_times

It looks like the only base model times the have for the vette and the viper are (newest models recorded)

7:59 - C6 corvette z51driven by GM
7:59 - 2005 Viper SRT-10 driven by Motor Trend

However, that was the 2005 viper with 500bhp. The 2009 has 600bhp. I would imagine it would be faster, but I can only find the 2009 ARC viper's times.

Note: this has nothing to do with the OP, just a side discussion.
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:18 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by wcbjr View Post
Correct. Look at this little beast, in an Ariel Atom no less.

500hp, NA, 2.4L V8, 10k RPM.


I love it. Simply love it. What I wouldn't give to wring that bastard out to 10K and hear it scream
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Old 06-08-2009, 06:13 PM   #22
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damn did the Ariel Atom tires melt? :P
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:00 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by skiaddict View Post
The number of cylinders has nothing to do with it. I don't understand why people are constantly harping on this point.
Having more cylinders gives the engine more potential overall - why have a V10 when a V8 can make similar figures?
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:03 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by rypt View Post
Having more cylinders gives the engine more potential overall
Please, explain that statement. Ignoring countless other variables there.
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Old 06-08-2009, 07:06 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by wcbjr View Post
Correct. Look at this little beast, in an Ariel Atom no less.

500hp, NA, 2.4L V8, 10k RPM.

Well, that was kind of an odd example to use to say cylinder count doens't mean anything. In this case, it's everything.

Just how exactly do you think that thing spins to 10k RPM to make 500 hp? It can because it has small pistons at its given displacement. A 2.4l, 4 cylinder could not be reved that high, all things being equal, and would not make that kind of HP.
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