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Old 05-19-2016, 05:15 PM   #26
Cobb Tuning
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Hey all!

I just wanted to touch on one thing that seems to be a concern (and a valid one). Our intent with removing Accesstuner Race is not in any way to deceive or hurt the end user, it is simply the first step in reworking the Accesstuner product line. We are actively working on bringing the software back in a manner that not only protects our Protuner network but also provides a viable option for end users that choose to tune their own cars. Once we are closer to releasing the updated software we will be able to share additional information.

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Old 05-20-2016, 12:57 AM   #27
Nuked
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Originally Posted by mtuning View Post
Please just don't hurt the end users that wants to learn tuning concepts and make their own tweaks. There are users that do not use ATR as a source of income. We just want to keep our cars running healthy. Most protuners started out as a home garage tuner.
This. Every tuner started out small, learning on his own car on his own dime. That is how I learned over 10 years ago in the DSM/Evo community. Tuning on primitive things like a S-AFC, DSMLink and then opensource. It was a really awesome time with a huge community of young tuners learning and exchanging ideas with one another. Many of those people are now "protuners" and some very well known and respected.

My biggest complaint is that we don't see Cobb on here as much giving insight and answering questions regarding tuning. I find that troublesome, and to an extent see it as more a favor to the "licensed" tuners than the end user. Over on the Focus ST forum there is a self tuning subsection. Cobb (Braden I think) was always posting on there to help out the end users that tuned themselves. Was this because the "licensed" tuner network for the ST was so small compared to Subaru and the more tuners you make now, the more licenses to be sold later?
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Old 05-20-2016, 01:09 PM   #28
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My biggest complaint is that we don't see Cobb on here as much giving insight and answering questions regarding tuning. I find that troublesome, and to an extent see it as more a favor to the "licensed" tuners than the end user. Over on the Focus ST forum there is a self tuning subsection. Cobb (Braden I think) was always posting on there to help out the end users that tuned themselves. Was this because the "licensed" tuner network for the ST was so small compared to Subaru and the more tuners you make now, the more licenses to be sold later?
Cobb is better than some, and worse than others. My problem was asking questions directly would get me routed to Surgeline when I got too specific/technical. When I spoke to Surgeline, the only thing I was offered was a locked tune.

However, Cobb will at least reply. If you don't like getting ghosted on end-user support, never buy a MoTeC box... even the some of the dealers get frustrated because MoTeC will withhold information at times. Case in point, I didn't buy my M800 direct from MoTeC but through a direct dealer, used. If I bought it new, it would be set-up exactly how I needed it, but asking for the base settings for my application now is like pulling teeth.

This is a good opportunity for Cobb to do something really awesome for the end-users, and it sounds like that's what is coming - I am really glad to hear they are listening to feedback on here!

Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 05-20-2016 at 01:14 PM.
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Old 05-20-2016, 01:09 PM   #29
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why would they pull ATR? it is always about money people . I've been waiting for this to happen ever since the site needed to be revamped. They no longer are trying to cater to you and i, the hands on owners. The competition is no longer romraider. see after the GTR, they tapped into the real money. The idea continued when they went to Porsche and BMW. Take into consideration the price of both the wrx and sti went up a little. All a new end user pay rate. Anyway, most people who have the job (cash) to buy a newer car with the idea of having fun, (track or just more power) are probably gonna have the cash to drop it off at a qualified tuner and let them put in whatever cobb package they want to afford! Pick it up a week later, and drive away with a smile! This is what they are betting on and the way to know is by there actions. Why didn't a warning get placed in the user manual or even on the start up screen before you install it in your car? Warning against the huge amount of unqualified shade tree mechanics charging to tune? It is because your average Subaru enthusiast is hands on and why would a tuner/mechanic, smaller shop who has all the qualifications dyno and all who tunes using his quality from ecu tech and locks them maby charging $350 for the whole tune and dyno time switch to paying cobb $650 first then use his dyno probably for less profit over all?A promise of new customers with more money.why wouldnt that same mechaninc/tuner not just tell you buy a used one i can still tune it. I expect ATR to return not allowing us to touch anything that would allow us to tune for more than max of stock parts.if you want bigger jets, turbo, anything bigger than stock.(for instance why is there still no ots map for the 2008 with a vf52. is this so different than the 2006 forester xt or wrx going to a vf39?they have plenty of research on th 52 at cobb) . you will need to be a qualified tuner who has ATR Pro to make those changes anymore.and expect increase in tunes more localized so adjustments really are not needed.
i believe its called closing the loop.this is how they will get the small mechanic to pay up to cobb and be on the cobb suggested list.
now that being said i have a question. Do i want to turn off my cobb updates on my ATR and accessport manager?
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Old 05-20-2016, 01:55 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post

This is a good opportunity for Cobb to do something really awesome for the end-users, and it sounds like that's what is coming - I am really glad to hear they are listening to feedback on here!

Just a guess, but I see them charging for ATR and locking them to PC's. It makes it a bit more of a pain, but not impossible.

Last edited by yamahaSHO; 05-20-2016 at 02:01 PM.
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Old 05-20-2016, 04:04 PM   #31
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Just a guess, but I see them charging for ATR and locking them to PC's. It makes it a bit more of a pain, but not impossible.
To me, I see the AP/ATR combo to be worth somewhere between $600-1000. If it is sold as a package deal with a keyed USB adapter for the software, I'm absolutely fine with that - VERY common in the CAD design/engineering software world.
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Old 05-20-2016, 04:08 PM   #32
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When you start approaching $1,000, an AEM EMS would be my choice.

If you have emissions, save your stock ECU to swap in with a RomRaider tune to pass, then swap back.
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Old 05-20-2016, 04:36 PM   #33
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Since I can still tune my own car with the version of ATP I downloaded years ago I don't really have a problem but I can see how it would be one.

My friend just got a bigger turbo and some other goodies.... He owns an AP but never got the ATP race software and always ran OTS maps.

Now with the new parts nearly installed he is considering selling the AP and going with a Haltech ECU or some kind of Open Source to be able to complete his build before "hopefully" June.

When you take a product of the shelves it does not sell. ATR is a big part of the AP platform and one of the only reasons I bought an AP. I did not buy an AP because of the pro tuner network. Lets face it, there are tons of competent tuners on many platforms.

The reason I bought an AP was the documentation and instruction that is provided for ATR as well as a few other features. It is well constructed platform with solid research and backing. Because I wanted to tune. Because I liked everything I saw in the software. The freedom to make changes at will.

One reason I would not buy the AP again is if becomes available with limited function in ATR.

One reason my friend is probably selling his AP is because he can no longer get ATR. (Yes he is un reasonable not to wait a few weeks)

Don't kill one of the best features, it is a major selling point for many.
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Old 05-22-2016, 10:47 PM   #34
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My biggest issue with Cobb and this isn't necessarily their fault, but it's their lack of "features" and by that I mean things a comparable standalone would have.


I'm on an AP currently. But for me to run the flex fuel stuff I need a v3, then the flex fuel stuff, then a pro tune.


While a ECU I'm looking at, is about that same price and has all the true flex fuel stuff, rally anti lag, tons of fail safes and limiters and a lot of amazing features that I may or may not use/need. But it's there. And I have the ability to have something really really stout setup. It would be more money sure. But it's that much more stuff.
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Old 05-23-2016, 02:12 AM   #35
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My biggest issue with Cobb and this isn't necessarily their fault, but it's their lack of "features" and by that I mean things a comparable standalone would have.
Blame the limitations of the OEM ECU, in this case. You can cobble together electronics to force it to do things it was never intended to... but it will always be a limiting factor.
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Old 05-23-2016, 07:01 AM   #36
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Well in the OP Cobb did say it was a proactive update after looking at industry trends and news. So, it could be to make ATR more competitive with what's currently available or will become available in the engine management field.
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:03 PM   #37
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Blame the limitations of the OEM ECU, in this case. You can cobble together electronics to force it to do things it was never intended to... but it will always be a limiting factor.
Plenty of open source guys have tons of stuff on the stock ecu
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Old 05-23-2016, 12:58 PM   #38
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Plenty of open source guys have tons of stuff on the stock ecu
Yes - on 16-bit ECUs, and primarily with the assistance of a guy that was hired on by Cobb.

There is a 32-bit GpN ROM that can serve as basis for development, but I have not personally seen much going on this area - the 16-bit (Carberry) project was very well controlled and systematically developed, while the 32-bit GpN ROM was essentially provided to the masses and everyone went their own way with it (as far as I can tell).

Yes, the OEM 32-bit ECU can perform anti-lag (with serious external signal manipulation), launch control, etc. You can also re-scale for different injectors and, to a lesser extent, different sensors. What the OEM ECU is always going to limit you on is data-logging speed/resolution and other nicer points that are a given on all standalone systems.
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Old 05-25-2016, 02:07 AM   #39
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Merp mod etc. there's a antilag rotational idle, map switches, a lot of stuff. This is for 32 but cars. I'm aware of car berry for 16 but


But again. This is why I'm considering a standalone overall because the potential for higher reliability is there with the additional resolution and additional things.
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Old 05-26-2016, 09:32 PM   #40
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Im sorry i was a bit lazy on this front, is there anyway to get the older version of ATR? I would like to delete the codes for the airpump delete i did.
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Old 05-31-2016, 10:37 PM   #41
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Please just don't hurt the end users that wants to learn tuning concepts and make their own tweaks. There are users that do not use ATR as a source of income. We just want to keep our cars running healthy. Most protuners started out as a home garage tuner.
I'm hella' late to the party.. but this. This x100
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Old 05-31-2016, 10:44 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning View Post
Hey all!

I just wanted to touch on one thing that seems to be a concern (and a valid one). Our intent with removing Accesstuner Race is not in any way to deceive or hurt the end user, it is simply the first step in reworking the Accesstuner product line. We are actively working on bringing the software back in a manner that not only protects our Protuner network but also provides a viable option for end users that choose to tune their own cars. Once we are closer to releasing the updated software we will be able to share additional information.

[email protected]
As long as I can use it both on my laptop and my desktop, I'm happy. I don't really want to deal with having to move VM's around just to be able to be portable when I'm on the road, and comfortable when I'm in my office...

Keep up the good work!
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:00 AM   #43
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I really hope COBB does the community proud with this. Here's my take:

I've got a '15 Forester XT. The CVT is weak, and has been replaced twice already in my car (under 25k miles, with really no mods other than TGV deletes and dry flow intake filter), so my original dreams of 300+WHP are long gone. However, I still want my car to run healthy while I still have it.

The stock OTS maps are not great as everyone knows, and without mods (because of the weak transmission), I don't see the value in spending a few hundred bucks on a pro-tune.

So, for me, ATR was a way to tweak and tune and try to figure out how to get it running better safely. I still have my copy of ATR on my home computer, and an older (pre-recall) version on my work computer. The work computer will not allow me to update, so I wanted to just download the newer version with the update already implemented, but eventually found this thread. Now it looks like I will only be able to tune from my home computer until this is figured out.

It seems the issue is licensing, and preventing the amateur-E-tuners from selling tunes without going through the proper channels.
As long as I can access the same type of tuning that a pro-shop can, for my own vehicle, without paying anything extra, then I don't care what they do with the "re-tool".
(Even with whatever they are planning, if the end user can tune their own car on their own computer, what stops a non-pro-tuner from remoting into a "customer's" computer and tweaking ATR for them as if they were there with them?)

Do it right COBB; make the new version more user friendly, make sure self-tuners can still do what we had been able to do in the past (and give us more, we want Flex Fuel, etc), otherwise, you will lose customers.
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Old 06-03-2016, 11:53 AM   #44
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Do it right COBB; make the new version more user friendly, make sure self-tuners can still do what we had been able to do in the past (and give us more, we want Flex Fuel, etc), otherwise, you will lose customers.
QFT

They're currently hiding behind some legal issue for flex fuel, despite the fact that the same law would apply to pro-tuners. Besides, it's for off-road use only.
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Old 06-03-2016, 07:52 PM   #45
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QFT
Besides, it's for off-road use only.
This is my gripe... Do not care about emissions on my "race car". My non-catted downpipe (previously a Cobb non-catted) doesn't care.

That said, Alex, you were told something different from Cobb as what another customer was told. It gets interesting when you fish for information from Cobb. They do not disappoint in the entertainment factor. I sort of feel bad for telling people to but the AP, as now they ate ready to be tuned and I can't do it... And they aren't going to a "ProTuner".
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Old 06-04-2016, 10:25 PM   #46
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Regarding the circuit motorsports post on Facebook, I posted a couple times in the comments.

As far as licensing goes (and this has been brought up a few times here as well), what if I tune using my laptop to log and my desktop to do the brunt of the work where I can sit comfortably? What if I upgrade my mobile computing solution? What will happen to my copy of the new atr?

And circuit also said that the features the AP and ATR present are enough to make people wait. Really? They don't have half of the features carberry adds to 16bit ecu's and merpmod for 32.

As far as the legal issues for "off road use", yes the "race car" is going to be used on a track, the tuning solution shouldn't matter and the legality of the car is up to the owner at that point.

I just don't quite see a way where Cobb can further protect their protuner network without in the end hurting the end user for atr.
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Old 06-07-2016, 07:55 PM   #47
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Just something I got from Sam at Cobb. Sounds like they don't want to support Access Tuner Race or the community any more.

The question I asked was what fields would need to be changed in the OTS maps to support 1000cc injectors waiting. No idea why Cobb would make a stage 3 ots map with 725 injectors as that limits what people can use (and they are the same price as 1000cc).

The only OTS maps we have will be calibrated for upgraded injectors will be for the 725cc's. If you would like to run the 1000cc injectors with the rest of the Stage 3 kit, you will need to get a custom map developed by a Protuner. In addition, we do not recommend running the upgraded injectors and fuel pump without the fuel pressure regulator kit, so be sure to install those simultaneously
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Old 06-07-2016, 10:59 PM   #48
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Just something I got from Sam at Cobb. Sounds like they don't want to support Access Tuner Race or the community any more.

The question I asked was what fields would need to be changed in the OTS maps to support 1000cc injectors waiting. No idea why Cobb would make a stage 3 ots map with 725 injectors as that limits what people can use (and they are the same price as 1000cc).

The only OTS maps we have will be calibrated for upgraded injectors will be for the 725cc's. If you would like to run the 1000cc injectors with the rest of the Stage 3 kit, you will need to get a custom map developed by a Protuner. In addition, we do not recommend running the upgraded injectors and fuel pump without the fuel pressure regulator kit, so be sure to install those simultaneously
That is ridiculous and limiting. Cobb definitely does not feel like they are about the community at all anymore.

But you'll want to change injector scale and latency at the least and some injectors come with spec sheets that may also specify ipw and other things that minutely affect fueling. Keep an eye on your trims if you're going to tune them yourself.
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Old 06-08-2016, 06:58 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by AWD Freak View Post
Just something I got from Sam at Cobb. Sounds like they don't want to support Access Tuner Race or the community any more.

The question I asked was what fields would need to be changed in the OTS maps to support 1000cc injectors waiting. No idea why Cobb would make a stage 3 ots map with 725 injectors as that limits what people can use (and they are the same price as 1000cc).

The only OTS maps we have will be calibrated for upgraded injectors will be for the 725cc's. If you would like to run the 1000cc injectors with the rest of the Stage 3 kit, you will need to get a custom map developed by a Protuner. In addition, we do not recommend running the upgraded injectors and fuel pump without the fuel pressure regulator kit, so be sure to install those simultaneously

Wow... This is a joke, good thing I have Accesstuner Race for my accessport install file uploaded to my google drive...
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Old 06-08-2016, 08:44 PM   #50
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exactly. i wrote cobb asking for a ots map for the vf52 for a our 2008 wrx and was told i need to go to a tuner to get a custom map.how is a vf52 tune a custom map with all the data they have on it in a wrx from 2009 to 2014.
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