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Old 09-08-2019, 10:11 PM   #1
theSTIprojectgrey
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Default ****built Motor Questions*****

Alright guys, I have tried "google searches" of what I am about to ask and nothing really came back to answer my question fully. I currently have a 18 STI full bolt ons, blouch 3.0 xtr . Car is "somewhat " a daily driver, roughly 4-8k miles per year. I am wanting to make around 600whp eventually on a built set up.


Questions

1. Who is out on this forum running a built short block with stock location turbo and or rotated kit making at least 500whp plus with no issues? *Heads will be stock FYI*

2. what short blocks are you all running out there? what is your experience? I am currently looking at a IAG magnum SB , I know they claim its rated at 850hp but as I mentioned I am shooting for 600-650whp in the future.

3. All I keep hearing from shops these days is stock locations turbos create back pressure which eventually lift the heads. I understand rotated is the way to go but I don't have that kind of funds. I get the whole statement
"you got to pay to play" but I am sure there are people out there running built SB with no issues .

I do not plan to drag this car, just spirited driving once in a while maybe a couple of roll races here and there " in Mexico of course"

here is the options I am looking at getting

IAG MANGUM SB OR IAG STAGE 4 SB WITH FP BLACK


any experiences or advice would be GREATLY appreciated !
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Last edited by theSTIprojectgrey; 09-09-2019 at 07:43 AM.
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Old 09-08-2019, 11:14 PM   #2
the_saintusa
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Talk to your tuner!

I wish I had, only because I would have saved some money, and made some more power.

The tuner of your choice will have seen the end result of numerous types of set ups.
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Old 09-09-2019, 12:15 AM   #3
stu
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1/2 head studs.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:46 AM   #4
theSTIprojectgrey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_saintusa View Post
Talk to your tuner!

I wish I had, only because I would have saved some money, and made some more power.

The tuner of your choice will have seen the end result of numerous types of set ups.
I have spoken with two shops already. One shop doesnt agree with rotated whatsoever. Another shop stated no matter what built block I throw at it, the fact of the matter is Ill be lucky if it even lasts 20k miles
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:06 PM   #5
Rickyh
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I made 600 on a rev works built block with a fpblack. I eventually lifted a head so i would get either half inch or 14mm head studs. i had no issues for 3 years and i beat on it pretty good.
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Old 09-10-2019, 06:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theSTIprojectgrey View Post
I have spoken with two shops already. One shop doesnt agree with rotated whatsoever. Another shop stated no matter what built block I throw at it, the fact of the matter is Ill be lucky if it even lasts 20k miles
asking a 4 cylinder to make 150 whp per cylinder and be reliable isn't a very smart idea in the first place. For reference, thats a 1200 hp V8. even at that power level, they don't last forever.

With that said, block longevity depends on how its driven.

20k miles where you just drive around town doing pulls onto the highway is not the same as 20k miles of road racing obviously.

if you truly just do some driving around town and pulls onto the highway, I dont see why your car wouldn't last 20k assuming the other variables are right. Like tune, fuel etc.
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Old 09-10-2019, 09:05 PM   #7
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stock location is great but the Fp with that 83mm inlet is crazy hard to get to fit.. just saying.

you can make that but its not going to last very long and your power band is going to be like 5000 to 7500.. not very big

personally if you are going to do that, build a ez30 with a gtx3582
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Old 09-10-2019, 11:15 PM   #8
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We have done a few. Ask your questions and I'll answer as time allows.
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Old 09-11-2019, 01:16 PM   #9
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Dont get stuck thinking about HP. Think about what the car will be used for. If its autocross you need more tq at low end. If its for drag, you want more power up top after a lunch. If its for rally 600hp will be to long of a lag to make it a good rally car. So what is your plan for the car, lets start there.
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Old 09-12-2019, 02:54 PM   #10
theSTIprojectgrey
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Thanks Guys for the feedback. I appreciate everyones opinions. I was also thinking the same think , stronger headstuds with IAG magnum block. Regarding the turbo, im stuck really. I heard good things about FP BLACK, blouch 5.0 XTR , but ATP I am not 100% sure of.

Goals for the car is just drive the car maybe 3 days or so a week, and do a couple of roll races . This will not be a track car or drag strip car. Goal really is 600whp and thats pretty much it for now. I definitely want an block that that can handle 750whp just in case I wanna go rotated in the future
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Old 09-12-2019, 04:17 PM   #11
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I am just breaking in a IAG 2.7 magnum and I can't say enough good things about it so far. Not tuned for boost yet, I have to get through the break-in mileage for the final tune. However, starting the engine between 55F-80F, so far no piston slap, engine is smoother running(NVH) and wants to rev.

Also, have IAG stage stage 4 heads with GSC stage 1 cams, Fluidampr crank pulley, ACT Streetlight flywheel with a ACT Xtreme Duty Performance Street Disc Clutch Kit. With STI group N engine and transmission mounts.

I am running a Killer B spoolinator kit which is stock location but runs the Tial turbine housing.
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Old 09-12-2019, 07:05 PM   #12
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I have a 525whp 524tq ej257 with a FP Green on e85, Manley pistons. On a calibrated mustang dyno im near 460 whp ish.

I lifted the head at 26 psi on arp std headstuds. But it never over heated UOA's just showed abit of coolant inside the oil.

15k miles later my stock rods bent, tore down the motor and the walls were great condition and rod and main bearings in great condition. So I guess i would just upgrade the headstuds to something better for you maybe some 625 arp.

I know im not at 500whp like you want to be but here is some info at my power levels.
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Old 09-13-2019, 12:33 PM   #13
Gab0
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Questions

1. Who is out on this forum running a built short block with stock location turbo and or rotated kit making at least 500whp plus with no issues? *Heads will be stock FYI*

I am currently north of 15k in fact close to 20k on a Outfront built block and stock heads on standard ARP studs with a DOM 1.5 XT-R. The car made 500 whp on E85 at 24 psi. I daily drive the car, though honestly it maybe sees over 10 psi 5 times a week. I am religious about checking my oil levels and do my oil changes every 2,000-2,500 miles.

2. what short blocks are you all running out there? what is your experience? I am currently looking at a IAG magnum SB , I know they claim its rated at 850hp but as I mentioned I am shooting for 600-650whp in the future.

I am running CP pistons (9.0:1 compression), outfront rods and king bearings with the OEM crank.

3. All I keep hearing from shops these days is stock locations turbos create back pressure which eventually lift the heads. I understand rotated is the way to go but I don't have that kind of funds. I get the whole statement
"you got to pay to play" but I am sure there are people out there running built SB with no issues .

Can't really comment on this, other than I've had no issues.

Last edited by Gab0; 09-13-2019 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 09-15-2019, 07:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camber View Post
I am just breaking in a IAG 2.7 magnum and I can't say enough good things about it so far. Not tuned for boost yet, I have to get through the break-in mileage for the final tune. However, starting the engine between 55F-80F, so far no piston slap, engine is smoother running(NVH) and wants to rev.

Also, have IAG stage stage 4 heads with GSC stage 1 cams, Fluidampr crank pulley, ACT Streetlight flywheel with a ACT Xtreme Duty Performance Street Disc Clutch Kit. With STI group N engine and transmission mounts.

I am running a Killer B spoolinator kit which is stock location but runs the Tial turbine housing.
which turbo are you running?
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Old 09-15-2019, 10:00 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
which turbo are you running?
Something to keep in mind when asking this question is that our Spoolinator kit does not directly translate to OEM location OR a rotated setup. The area under the curve will be different
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Old 09-16-2019, 12:08 PM   #16
camber
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
which turbo are you running?
Garrett GTX3067 .63 AR for now.

Probably, moving to a bigger turbo by next summer. Either a bigger GTX30 or hopefully, a new Spoolinator kit, that uses the new G25 or maybe G30 Garrett turbos.
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Old 09-16-2019, 12:18 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camber View Post
Garrett GTX3067 .63 AR for now.

Probably, moving to a bigger turbo by next summer. Either a bigger GTX30 or hopefully, a new Spoolinator kit, that uses the new G25 or maybe G30 Garrett turbos.
oo thats small for your engine. it mus spool super quick.right now im running the 3067 with a .82ar it spools kinda late so I was thinking of trying the .63 as well and seeing what that does for me
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Old 09-16-2019, 03:16 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
oo thats small for your engine. it mus spool super quick.right now im running the 3067 with a .82ar it spools kinda late so I was thinking of trying the .63 as well and seeing what that does for me
You guys should swap hot sides since his stroker will probably work better with the larger housing.
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Old 09-16-2019, 07:24 PM   #19
subaru_gc8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul View Post
You guys should swap hot sides since his stroker will probably work better with the larger housing.
that would work if I didnt already have the .63.but that would be a good idea
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Old 09-16-2019, 08:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
oo thats small for your engine. it mus spool super quick.right now im running the 3067 with a .82ar it spools kinda late so I was thinking of trying the .63 as well and seeing what that does for me
No way that 3067 should spool late. On the right setup is should spool better than the OEM VF.

Here is a 21psi boost plot of a GTX3067 with a .82 A/R on our Spoolinator Kit...

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Old 09-16-2019, 11:49 PM   #21
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Running an IAG stg 2 Tuff short block with arp 625 head studs on Stock heads. FP Red (turbo wrapped) 1300cc inj, killer bee headers coated by swaintech and a TBE (Tomei catback). Aem 340lph fuel pump (hardwired). Cobb short ram intake and PRL front mount.
On 29psi on E70 I made 518whp/495ft lbs (mustang dyno)
Block has 30k on it and running great. Even gets 24.5 mpg the freeway on E70.
No complaints over here except I want more power.
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:30 AM   #22
subaru_gc8
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double post

Last edited by subaru_gc8; 09-17-2019 at 02:33 AM. Reason: double post
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Old 09-17-2019, 02:31 AM   #23
subaru_gc8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
No way that 3067 should spool late. On the right setup is should spool better than the OEM VF.

Here is a 21psi boost plot of a GTX3067 with a .82 A/R on our Spoolinator Kit...

yeah I dont know whats going on, but yeah that is what i am getting.. I mean I would like a litte quicker spool, its a pain when on the open road and you want to pass on a 2 lane road and you have to drop down to 4th to pass. I have the spec B trans BTW.. Do you think it might have something to do with me having a 2.1 with v9 heads with tomei cams?
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Old 09-17-2019, 12:38 PM   #24
Gab0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer112 View Post
Running an IAG stg 2 Tuff short block with arp 625 head studs on Stock heads. FP Red (turbo wrapped) 1300cc inj, killer bee headers coated by swaintech and a TBE (Tomei catback). Aem 340lph fuel pump (hardwired). Cobb short ram intake and PRL front mount.
On 29psi on E70 I made 518whp/495ft lbs (mustang dyno)
Block has 30k on it and running great. Even gets 24.5 mpg the freeway on E70.
No complaints over here except I want more power.
Who is your tuner?
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Old 09-17-2019, 01:53 PM   #25
Waddlz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxer112 View Post
Running an IAG stg 2 Tuff short block with arp 625 head studs on Stock heads. FP Red (turbo wrapped) 1300cc inj, killer bee headers coated by swaintech and a TBE (Tomei catback). Aem 340lph fuel pump (hardwired). Cobb short ram intake and PRL front mount.
On 29psi on E70 I made 518whp/495ft lbs (mustang dyno)
Block has 30k on it and running great. Even gets 24.5 mpg the freeway on E70.
No complaints over here except I want more power.
lol wut

you get 24.5 mpg on E70, when the factory car isn't even rated for that high MPG on pump gas?

lol ok.
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