Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday January 21, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo)

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-13-2020, 03:36 PM   #26
D-Rodman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110078
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Vehicle:
02 Bugeye JDM STi
OBP BLACK

Default

Well, a jdm Ej205 has the same fuel requirements as the ej207, they have the same compression ratio too if in fact they are steering you to an Ej205. Often times the motors are advertised as an Ej205 but they are in fact an ej206 out of legacy in Japan. The ej206 have a higher compression ratio, than the Ej205. You may need a second shop opinion.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
D-Rodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 10-13-2020, 04:14 PM   #27
St3fan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131131
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Vehicle:
Zero Volkswagens

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rodman View Post
Well, a jdm Ej205 has the same fuel requirements as the ej207, they have the same compression ratio too if in fact they are steering you to an Ej205. Often times the motors are advertised as an Ej205 but they are in fact an ej206 out of legacy in Japan. The ej206 have a higher compression ratio, than the Ej205. You may need a second shop opinion.
Again, the shop has no credibility issues, and Iíd much rather not have its integrity questioned. I would appreciate an understanding of the advice they are offering, and the solution they have advocated for though. I will ask them directly, but it was a pretty hard shutdown on the 207 V9 plan, which I initially asked about.
St3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 04:22 PM   #28
snow_bound26
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395793
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Split time between SLC and Lak
Vehicle:
2005 92x Aero
Beige

Default

^^^^^^
Mostly this. The fuel requirements of any turbo Subaru engine are the same.

In my research not all 205s had the same compression. Depending on the year and which car/turbo combination it came out of, compression ratio could be 8.0:1-9.0:1.

If you're power goals will never go above the 300 range then the JDM 205 with AVCS will be fine and a really easy swap. If you think you'll eventually want more power then save yourself the money of having to do the engine again. The rods are weaker in the 205 and they have a tendency to spin rods bearings as well. The 207 has better oiling capabilities and stronger rods along with forged pistons on the v7 MYs. Many of the v7 variants have big port heads coming out of Japan and v8 and newer all have big port heads. This is one of best advantages of the 207.

Make your own decision, after all it's your money. But if you think you may want more than a 16g sized turbo one day, then why take the chance of doing it again like I am?
snow_bound26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 04:34 PM   #29
St3fan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131131
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Vehicle:
Zero Volkswagens

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
^^^^^^
Mostly this. The fuel requirements of any turbo Subaru engine are the same.

In my research not all 205s had the same compression. Depending on the year and which car/turbo combination it came out of, compression ratio could be 8.0:1-9.0:1.

If you're power goals will never go above the 300 range then the JDM 205 with AVCS will be fine and a really easy swap. If you think you'll eventually want more power then save yourself the money of having to do the engine again. The rods are weaker in the 205 and they have a tendency to spin rods bearings as well. The 207 has better oiling capabilities and stronger rods along with forged pistons on the v7 MYs. Many of the v7 variants have big port heads coming out of Japan and v8 and newer all have big port heads. This is one of best advantages of the 207.

Make your own decision, after all it's your money. But if you think you may want more than a 16g sized turbo one day, then why take the chance of doing it again like I am?
Thanks for this response, I really appreciate it.

My power requirements for this car will never go above 300whp. I do intend to drive the car pretty hard most of the time though. Not abusively, but appropriately - like, I***8217;m not a kid. TBH, this is sort of a throwback for me, and really enjoyable. I had more fun in the wagon with the rear sway, camber done and some more power than I ever have in the various ***8220;true***8221; sports cars I***8217;ve owned as an adult.

I just don***8217;t want something to blow up all the time. ***55357;***56898;

Last edited by St3fan; 10-13-2020 at 05:14 PM. Reason: Typoz
St3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 06:51 PM   #30
St3fan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131131
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Vehicle:
Zero Volkswagens

Default

I just got the estimate.
No mention of year of 205 used.
No mention of AVCS kit as a line item (spark plugs were listed, so I***8217;m assuming that would have been too.)
No mention of a post install tune to exhaust etc spec - something I asked for. I was asked if the car had AP so there wasn***8217;t any confusion. An oversight I guess. It just worries me if that***8217;s not a part of the thinking from the off.

Runs to just shy of $4.6k including tax

Thoughts?

Also, thanks for the input and guidance to date.
St3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 07:30 PM   #31
NicMonte
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 479655
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Omaha Ne
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza wrx
Black

Default Tell me your ďI need a new engineĒ story

I would ask the shop if itís going to have AVCS... as you canít use the AP with a jdm setup while using AVCS. Also ask what ever other questions you may have.

Personally I donít see why you wouldnít go with a ej207 despite the ďCredibilityĒ and what the shop says or suggests you do. Itís your choice/ your money.....not the shops.

I have a jdm ej205, and if I had to do it over again I would have bought the 207... but donít take the 3 or four guys advice/experience here***129320;...

Thatís my opinion though.

Yeah you donít need a 207, but a 205 is at its limits with 300whp. So why not get a 207? Many options later down the road with a 207...

Last edited by NicMonte; 10-13-2020 at 07:40 PM.
NicMonte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 10:24 PM   #32
D-Rodman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110078
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Vehicle:
02 Bugeye JDM STi
OBP BLACK

Default

Have them build you a 2.1 stroker or a 2.5 hybrid.
D-Rodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 10:40 PM   #33
St3fan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131131
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Vehicle:
Zero Volkswagens

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicMonte View Post
I would ask the shop if itís going to have AVCS... as you canít use the AP with a jdm setup while using AVCS. Also ask what ever other questions you may have.

Personally I donít see why you wouldnít go with a ej207 despite the ďCredibilityĒ and what the shop says or suggests you do. Itís your choice/ your money.....not the shops.

I have a jdm ej205, and if I had to do it over again I would have bought the 207... but donít take the 3 or four guys advice/experience here***129320;...

Thatís my opinion though.

Yeah you donít need a 207, but a 205 is at its limits with 300whp. So why not get a 207? Many options later down the road with a 207...
Well yeah man, Iím not arguing with you or anyone else, just relaying my communications with the shop. My initial request from the shop was a V9 207.

They shot that down based on fuel type, which has largely been dismissed here, for (IMO) valid reasons.

Then they sent me a quote that didnít appear to include using a 205 replacement with AVCS, or a tune.

Itís a shame as I sent questions about the variant of 205 to be used, why AVCS wasnít mentioned and why a tune wasnít mentioned within five minutes of receiving the estimate. Theyíre closed now and havenít responded. So Iíll see whatís up tomorrow I guess. Will report, but Iím not feeling very listened to by them, or optimistic.
St3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 11:14 PM   #34
NicMonte
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 479655
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Omaha Ne
Vehicle:
2002 Impreza wrx
Black

Default

Iíd go with D-Rodmanís advice and get a second opinion... If* this shop doesnít have the answers.

Which, IMO they should. As a swap, and wiring in AVCS doesnít entail much. Itís not like your asking for a Tesla swap, but you wanna keep the turbo

Hopefully they come back with more a detailed breakdown of what you would like, and what pricing to expect.
NicMonte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2020, 11:51 PM   #35
snow_bound26
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395793
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Split time between SLC and Lak
Vehicle:
2005 92x Aero
Beige

Default

https://www.eqtuning.com

Try getting a second opinion from these guys. They've been around for a while and seem to have a solid reputation.
snow_bound26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 12:12 AM   #36
St3fan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131131
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Vehicle:
Zero Volkswagens

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NicMonte View Post
Iíd go with D-Rodmanís advice and get a second opinion... If* this shop doesnít have the answers.

Which, IMO they should. As a swap, and wiring in AVCS doesnít entail much. Itís not like your asking for a Tesla swap, but you wanna keep the turbo

Hopefully they come back with more a detailed breakdown of what you would like, and what pricing to expect.
I really hope so. I feel that if the proposed block is a non-AVCS 205, thatís a pretty cynical decision to make. So Iím really hoping I get the answers to my questions (about that and tune) and itís all just an oversight.

Thanks for the input, I appreciate it. Iím starting to feel sorta icky about it now. I feel I approached them as a good client. Like, Iím not an idiot, Iím not broke, I have realistic expectations, Iím reasonably fluent in the language, but absolutely do not think I know everything. I know that shops get a ton of ******** who tell them they know anything and want to argue over pricing. Iím not that guy - quite the opposite. Iíd hate to have that taken advantage of. But again, hoping and expecting for a non-cynical response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
https://www.eqtuning.com

Try getting a second opinion from these guys. They've been around for a while and seem to have a solid reputation.
I will, thanks so much for stepping in with some advice.

All you guys have been great through this, thank you!

Updates tomorrow.
St3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 12:18 AM   #37
St3fan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131131
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Vehicle:
Zero Volkswagens

Default

Update: just got this from the shop owner:

Quote:
This engine doesn***8217;t utilize AVCS, you would need a JDM ECU to support AVCS as well as the wiring and then you***8217;d render your AccessPORT useless as it doesn***8217;t support the JDM ECU***8217;s and you***8217;d also stand a good chance of issues with smog in the future.

I wasn***8217;t aware you wanted the car tuned but yes we can certainly do that and **** can incorporate that into your estimate.
My AP is V3. I told them multiple times smog isn***8217;t an issue for me. I mentioned several times that if course I***8217;d want a tune. (It***8217;s why he knows I have an AP - me requesting a tune.)

I***8217;m really not sure how to respond to this email.
St3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 12:56 AM   #38
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by St3fan View Post
Update: just got this from the shop owner:



My AP is V3. I told them multiple times smog isn***8217;t an issue for me. I mentioned several times that if course I***8217;d want a tune. (It***8217;s why he knows I have an AP - me requesting a tune.)

I***8217;m really not sure how to respond to this email.
all you need is a tactrix and a lap top. there are some shops now days that dont like to do open source, but some of us dont have ano other choice. well I guess you could go full standalone, there are some guys that are selling their haltechs on here that will get it running and all you ahve to do is take a degree or to out of the timing and yo shoud be good to go
It might be time to find another shop.
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 01:26 AM   #39
St3fan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131131
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Vehicle:
Zero Volkswagens

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
It might be time to find another shop.
I think you may be correct.

Iím gonna call Cobb for guidance, but (With new shop) back to the 207 V9, I assume thatís not an AccessPort-compatible engine, or is there an ECU workaround? Again, smog is not a concern.
St3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 02:13 AM   #40
D-Rodman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110078
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Vehicle:
02 Bugeye JDM STi
OBP BLACK

Default

You will not be making use of your accessport with a jdm ecu, youíd need an open source tune.
Keep your USDM ecu and accessport, do a proper 2.5 hybrid or 2.1 stroker.
D-Rodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 02:32 AM   #41
St3fan
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 131131
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Vehicle:
Zero Volkswagens

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Rodman View Post
You will not be making use of your accessport with a jdm ecu, youíd need an open source tune.
Keep your USDM ecu and accessport, do a proper 2.5 hybrid or 2.1 stroker.
Ack. I think I just want to order a 207 and have it installed and just run it stock, on a tune by the installer, and not really need to worry about it.
St3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2020, 08:42 AM   #42
snow_bound26
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395793
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Split time between SLC and Lak
Vehicle:
2005 92x Aero
Beige

Default

If you really don't need to worry about passing smog or getting CARB certified, then what that shop was saying about your options is incorrect. You won't have any issues trying to sell your AP. Only tuning options for the JDM ECUs are stand alone EM or Open Source. There's no need for stand alone with your goals. Go to the tuning forum and check all the info and beginners guide to Open Source tuning so you have an idea of how it works.

I don't necessarily think they are trying to take advantage of you or are being deceptive. It actually seems like they simply aren't listening to you which is all too common unfortunately.
snow_bound26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2020, 01:23 AM   #43
D-Rodman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110078
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Vehicle:
02 Bugeye JDM STi
OBP BLACK

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by St3fan View Post
Ack. I think I just want to order a 207 and have it installed and just run it stock, on a tune by the installer, and not really need to worry about it.


Canít blame you, Iíd love a ver 9 also.
D-Rodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2020, 12:18 PM   #44
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by St3fan View Post
Ack. I think I just want to order a 207 and have it installed and just run it stock, on a tune by the installer, and not really need to worry about it.
yeah its probably the best and most reliable way to get back on the road. ALso be careful with the v9, I believe they came immobilized
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-15-2020, 01:02 PM   #45
D-Rodman
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 110078
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Long Island N.Y.
Vehicle:
02 Bugeye JDM STi
OBP BLACK

Default Tell me your ďI need a new engineĒ story

Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
yeah its probably the best and most reliable way to get back on the road. ALso be careful with the v9, I believe they came immobilized


Ver 9 ecu came immobilized except for the ver 9 spec C.
Op needs to request a ver 8 or ver 7 ecu. A WRX or forester ecu with avcs capability will also work properly.
D-Rodman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2020, 08:25 AM   #46
ranben
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 341339
Join Date: Dec 2012
Default

I'm not sure yet if I need a new engine, but I'm worried I may have bent valves doing my timing belt job today... On my 98 WRX motor I successfully removed the crank bolt, stripped off the timing cover and reinstalled the crank bolt to line up the timing marks. Once aligned I then tried to remove the crank bolt again to clean the crank of oil residue of the crank sprocket as it was hard to see the marks and I wanted to re-mark them. When undoing the crank bolt while holding the upper right cam (facing the motor) the belt slipped a fair few teeth and the upper right cam moved out of timing position.

I then rotated the crank 2 times and the timing was still waaaay out on everything now. I pushed a little further (the arrow, not the timing line on the crank sprocket is now facing up towards the top timing mark) and I could feel resistance so I instantly stopped....

Hopefully I haven't bent valves.

New motor time?
ranben is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-26-2020, 05:03 PM   #47
shady8240
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 381608
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Boulder, CO
Vehicle:
2002 WRX wagon
silver

Default New engine available

I was building a bad ass ej20 wrx engine, but my plans have changed. I have a set of stage 1 racing heads, and a stage 1 racing block with forged internals, ss headers, cat back exhaust, cobb latest version, an extra 5spd from an 04, an extra ej20 complete engine from my 04. I was building this engine to end up with around 300-325 whp with another 200k out of the car in mind. Let me know if you are interested. I am about to post everything for sale. (Personally, if you were looking to go with an sti setup, I would probably just start with an sti, imo.)
shady8240 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2020, 09:32 PM   #48
subaru_gc8
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29292
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Orange County CA
Vehicle:
2004 WRX wagon
silver

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by St3fan View Post
I think you may be correct.

Iím gonna call Cobb for guidance, but (With new shop) back to the 207 V9, I assume thatís not an AccessPort-compatible engine, or is there an ECU workaround? Again, smog is not a concern.
get a jdm ecu and get it tuned, youre going to want avcs as it makes a huge did isa huge difference as far as how your car will drive. I have a 2.1 stroker with v9 heads and I ran it a few months without avcs and then I got my jdm ecu done, man I made more of a difference than the higher compression and the 2.1 combined.
subaru_gc8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.