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Old 11-26-2020, 02:08 AM   #1
St3fan
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Default 2002 on up Wagon Understeer Fix.

This has been debated to absolute crushing levels. Following is the best solution I've found across four cars and eight builds. It makes it perfect and I donít believe anything else is needed to be said on the issue. With this setup, you can just turn up the oversteer incrementally as desired.

Neg front camber 2*
Whiteline steering rack bushings
Kartboy KB-017 solid front endlinks
Kartboy KB-017 solid rear endlinks
Whiteline S Antift kit
Whiteline 22MM rear sway set right in the middle
KYB front top hats
KYB AGX shocks all round (set mid)
OEM Japanese pink STi springs

Ride is great, spirited driving, and cornering under power is revolutionized.

Iím aware others have solved the same issue is a similar fashion. The addition of the steering bushings and ALK put it over the edge for me. So if you want it, itís a shopping list that runs under two grand. Iíve spent a lot more for a barely anything as pleasing as this return. Essentially, the car oversteers now as much as it understeers stock, if that makes any sense.
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Old 11-26-2020, 09:05 AM   #2
Norm Peterson
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Not sure why you'd want that much oversteer in a daily-driver. Autocross, maybe.


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Old 11-26-2020, 11:01 AM   #3
St3fan
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Not sure why you'd want that much oversteer in a daily-driver. Autocross, maybe.


Norm
Itís adjustable from neutral to quite a lot. I have it set to oversteer as much as it used to understeer, which I donít think is particularly insane. Iíve owned a lot of ďinterestingĒ handling cars over the years. Driving 930s as a daily for the last decade had made me pretty aware of potential weirdness when going around a corner. Thatís where I learned about the VERY underrated addition of an ALK. Having all that power and weight sat over the rear wheels, and nothing up front, teaches you a few lessons, and fairly sternly.

However, the same car taught me about the importance of very positive steering. So having a wagon that wonít just plough (without brake-involved lift-off) is simply safer, more predictable and more fun than it factory setup - which I personally believe Subaru **** the bed on. Tried fixing it with the front LSD IN THE 03 STi and still missed the mark.

For the record, because the wagon is AWD, any oversteer had positive reverse pull geometry built into the drivetrain, to it wonít let go and see you facing the wrong way if you keep the power down and just trust the setup. Itís not like making a brisk turn from standing at the lights in the rain and ending up backwards. Ask me how I know. Haha.

Not planning on autocross - but will be running Infinium pretty regularly. I think the car is set for a two minute run now - which is an arbitrary personal milestone for the build on stock internals, lots of suspension nerding, decent brakes and tires, all exhaust and intake work done and making 254whp with time and custom map via AP on a Mustang dyno.
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Old 11-26-2020, 11:31 AM   #4
mitch808
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Its really easy and cheap to change driving habits too.

Lift off throttle oversteer is easy in a wrx and more so the wagon.

Applying a quick stab of the brake mid turn to upset the chassis works well too.
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Old 11-26-2020, 08:59 PM   #5
speedyHAM
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Those parts alone won't make the car oversteer or understeer. It's the complete alignment that makes the biggest difference. Front toe and camber, Rear toe and camber along with the right parts can make these cars handle pretty much any way you want them too.
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Old 11-27-2020, 09:01 PM   #6
St3fan
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Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
Those parts alone won't make the car oversteer or understeer. It's the complete alignment that makes the biggest difference. Front toe and camber, Rear toe and camber along with the right parts can make these cars handle pretty much any way you want them too.
As mentioned, Iíve found that negative 2 degrees front camber is perfect for street use, though will likely run ~4 track - from what Iíve felt out. Had R888Rs chucked on today and had realigned. Donít know what you are expecting from a change in the rear toe as far as addressing understeer - car to explain? I have a solid working knowledge of specifically this geometry and I canít see how you expect to see a positive driving different by changing rear toe with the above setup. Regarding rear camber, again, addressing the specific issue of understeer, you could poss or some, but that would just be deliberately sacrificing grip at the rear, which makes little sense and can be achieved in more effective and more predictable (safer) ways - but is still pointless if grip can be maintained across the board and the handling outcome achieved.

Speaking of grip.



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Old 11-27-2020, 09:05 PM   #7
St3fan
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Originally Posted by mitch808 View Post
Its really easy and cheap to change driving habits too.

Lift off throttle oversteer is easy in a wrx and more so the wagon.
As someone who grew up in the UK in the golden era of early 90s hot hatches, lift-off oversteer wouldnít be so much a change of driving habits, as a regression. Itís also a much slower and more passive way of cornering, with less control. Why rely on that when it can be improved and ultimately fixed? Thatís my thinking anyway.
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Old 11-27-2020, 09:18 PM   #8
Norm Peterson
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I don't think you need to have oversteer per se in order to have a car that willingly heads for the apex on lift-throttle. It can still be understeerish through the middle and on exit. Unless you're just an incorrigible hoon with the throttle, in which case the oversteer wouldn't be the car's fault . . .


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Old 11-28-2020, 01:28 PM   #9
2pot
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Originally Posted by St3fan View Post
I can***8217;t see how you expect to see a positive driving different by changing rear toe with the above setup.
Rear toe-in = running a rear slip-angle gives quicker response to steering inputs with improved stability at high-speed and under braking.

I think the alk is over-rated - the additional caster is helpful, but there are other ways to achieve that, without increasing front lift and dive as a side-effect.
I suppose it's useful if you've selected front spring rates that are too high - guess that's why people with coilover kits feel they're an improvement.
Also, not a big fan of urethane as a pivot point, on a road car.

Last edited by 2pot; 11-28-2020 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 11-29-2020, 05:05 AM   #10
St3fan
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Rear toe-in = running a rear slip-angle gives quicker response to steering inputs with improved stability at high-speed and under braking.
I understand that conceptually, but do you believe any more that perhaps 1% of drivers would notice that change? The variances touting up are minuscule. Unless Iíve missed something over the years. Like, I get what youíre saying is factually true. But itís kind of like me saying thereís a million ants in that anthill and you saying actually, thereís a million and twenty three.
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:32 AM   #11
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I see your point - I'd like to think that a rear toe-in of 0.08deg, per side, is both beneficial and notable, on a GD/GG.
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Old 11-29-2020, 09:52 AM   #12
Norm Peterson
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'19 WRX Ltd 6M dgm
'08 Mustang GT (the toy)

Default

Zero rear toe has the potential for going slightly 'in' or slightly 'out' due to bushing compliances, and the resulting nervousness tends to discourage driving hard enough to where it clearly shows up. Even if you replace all of the OE rubber bushings with rod ends, knuckles/hub carriers and chassis-side brackets will still deflect as much as they did before. I suspect many people can feel rear end "nervousness" at least on a subliminal level, well enough to get a "don't go there again" message.

Just enough rear toe in to prevent any toe out is a good place to set that alignment parameter for road course work.


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