2002 on up Wagon Understeer Fix.

[St3fan]

This has been debated to absolute crushing levels. Following is the best solution I've found across four cars and eight builds. It makes it perfect and I don’t believe anything else is needed to be said on the issue. With this setup, you can just turn up the oversteer incrementally as desired.

Neg front camber 2*
Whiteline steering rack bushings
Kartboy KB-017 solid front endlinks
Kartboy KB-017 solid rear endlinks
Whiteline S Antift kit
Whiteline 22MM rear sway set right in the middle
KYB front top hats
KYB AGX shocks all round (set mid)
OEM Japanese pink STi springs

Ride is great, spirited driving, and cornering under power is revolutionized.

I’m aware others have solved the same issue is a similar fashion. The addition of the steering bushings and ALK put it over the edge for me. So if you want it, it’s a shopping list that runs under two grand. I’ve spent a lot more for a barely anything as pleasing as this return. Essentially, the car oversteers now as much as it understeers stock, if that makes any sense.

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[Norm Peterson]

Not sure why you'd want that much oversteer in a daily-driver. Autocross, maybe.


Norm

[St3fan]

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

Not sure why you'd want that much oversteer in a daily-driver. Autocross, maybe.


Norm

It’s adjustable from neutral to quite a lot. I have it set to oversteer as much as it used to understeer, which I don’t think is particularly insane. I’ve owned a lot of “interesting” handling cars over the years. Driving 930s as a daily for the last decade had made me pretty aware of potential weirdness when going around a corner. That’s where I learned about the VERY underrated addition of an ALK. Having all that power and weight sat over the rear wheels, and nothing up front, teaches you a few lessons, and fairly sternly.

However, the same car taught me about the importance of very positive steering. So having a wagon that won’t just plough (without brake-involved lift-off) is simply safer, more predictable and more fun than it factory setup - which I personally believe Subaru **** the bed on. Tried fixing it with the front LSD IN THE 03 STi and still missed the mark.

For the record, because the wagon is AWD, any oversteer had positive reverse pull geometry built into the drivetrain, to it won’t let go and see you facing the wrong way if you keep the power down and just trust the setup. It’s not like making a brisk turn from standing at the lights in the rain and ending up backwards. Ask me how I know. Haha.

Not planning on autocross - but will be running Infinium pretty regularly. I think the car is set for a two minute run now - which is an arbitrary personal milestone for the build on stock internals, lots of suspension nerding, decent brakes and tires, all exhaust and intake work done and making 254whp with time and custom map via AP on a Mustang dyno.

[mitch808]

Its really easy and cheap to change driving habits too.

Lift off throttle oversteer is easy in a wrx and more so the wagon.

Applying a quick stab of the brake mid turn to upset the chassis works well too.

[speedyHAM]

Those parts alone won't make the car oversteer or understeer. It's the complete alignment that makes the biggest difference. Front toe and camber, Rear toe and camber along with the right parts can make these cars handle pretty much any way you want them too.

[St3fan]

Originally Posted by speedyHAM

Those parts alone won't make the car oversteer or understeer. It's the complete alignment that makes the biggest difference. Front toe and camber, Rear toe and camber along with the right parts can make these cars handle pretty much any way you want them too.

As mentioned, I’ve found that negative 2 degrees front camber is perfect for street use, though will likely run ~4 track - from what I’ve felt out. Had R888Rs chucked on today and had realigned. Don’t know what you are expecting from a change in the rear toe as far as addressing understeer - car to explain? I have a solid working knowledge of specifically this geometry and I can’t see how you expect to see a positive driving different by changing rear toe with the above setup. Regarding rear camber, again, addressing the specific issue of understeer, you could poss or some, but that would just be deliberately sacrificing grip at the rear, which makes little sense and can be achieved in more effective and more predictable (safer) ways - but is still pointless if grip can be maintained across the board and the handling outcome achieved.

Speaking of grip.



Fantastic tire for the money.

[St3fan]

Originally Posted by mitch808

Its really easy and cheap to change driving habits too.

Lift off throttle oversteer is easy in a wrx and more so the wagon.

As someone who grew up in the UK in the golden era of early 90s hot hatches, lift-off oversteer wouldn’t be so much a change of driving habits, as a regression. It’s also a much slower and more passive way of cornering, with less control. Why rely on that when it can be improved and ultimately fixed? That’s my thinking anyway.

[Norm Peterson]

I don't think you need to have oversteer per se in order to have a car that willingly heads for the apex on lift-throttle. It can still be understeerish through the middle and on exit. Unless you're just an incorrigible hoon with the throttle, in which case the oversteer wouldn't be the car's fault . . .


Norm

[2pot]

Originally Posted by St3fan

I can***8217;t see how you expect to see a positive driving different by changing rear toe with the above setup.

Rear toe-in = running a rear slip-angle gives quicker response to steering inputs with improved stability at high-speed and under braking.

I think the alk is over-rated - the additional caster is helpful, but there are other ways to achieve that, without increasing front lift and dive as a side-effect.
I suppose it's useful if you've selected front spring rates that are too high - guess that's why people with coilover kits feel they're an improvement.
Also, not a big fan of urethane as a pivot point, on a road car.

[St3fan]

Originally Posted by 2pot

Rear toe-in = running a rear slip-angle gives quicker response to steering inputs with improved stability at high-speed and under braking.

I understand that conceptually, but do you believe any more that perhaps 1% of drivers would notice that change? The variances touting up are minuscule. Unless I’ve missed something over the years. Like, I get what you’re saying is factually true. But it’s kind of like me saying there’s a million ants in that anthill and you saying actually, there’s a million and twenty three.

[2pot]

I see your point - I'd like to think that a rear toe-in of 0.08deg, per side, is both beneficial and notable, on a GD/GG.

[Norm Peterson]

Zero rear toe has the potential for going slightly 'in' or slightly 'out' due to bushing compliances, and the resulting nervousness tends to discourage driving hard enough to where it clearly shows up. Even if you replace all of the OE rubber bushings with rod ends, knuckles/hub carriers and chassis-side brackets will still deflect as much as they did before. I suspect many people can feel rear end "nervousness" at least on a subliminal level, well enough to get a "don't go there again" message.

Just enough rear toe in to prevent any toe out is a good place to set that alignment parameter for road course work.


Norm