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02-02-2007, 12:37 PM | #1 |
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:OG05 STi 51E |
ASP.... the competition...
Ok...those of us that race in BSP...know our cars....inside and out...We know what works...what doesn't...and for the most part what we can expect...
What about the other mounts in BSP... Say John Tak's Evo What do we know about it besides its fast...What makes it fast... what about the Bimmers or S2000's, Z's , Vettes.. What parts make them quick...What are we looking for when we go to impound for these guys...I admit..I know nothing about the legality of whatever parts on other makes...so I figured we could come together collectively... First to try and make us more competitive in the class Second, to learn what to look for on other cars... and lastly, Maybe theres something we could apply to our cars... Thanks.. Bill
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02-02-2007, 01:23 PM | #2 |
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:OG05 STi 51E |
Ok ...I will try my hand at it...
-most Evo's can run a 10 in wide front wheel and 9 in rear... -they can sport 315 tires -they are around 340 AWHP and 340 lbs Torque -on a stock turbo they are around 23+ lbs of boost -suspension is pretty wide....most spring rates i know of are right around ours Bars are open as well...most using the Race Hotchis setup. most common Spring Rates are 12k and 10k -weight is around 2885 normal RS configuration -LSD's Vette: -Strut bars are a must to be competitive -335 rear with 295 front tires seem to be the norm -hp is right around 375+ to the wheels torque is well over 400 lbs's -coilovers not so common but 1000lb springs are pretty common -Trac Bars??? are big for some reason -Steering racks from different models vary accross the board to what ratio's they are using...some as hight 16:1 down to a GM Performance Rack to 10.5:1... LSD or Locker S2000: Engine stuff for the most part, Headers, Exhaust, VTEC controller coilovers with HUGE swaybars..spring Rates 8k and 6K... don't know to much other stuff... My point is..I wouldn't even know what to look for thats illegal on ANY of these cars... What are some of the 'cheater' things to look for on these things... |
02-02-2007, 03:55 PM | #3 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 97610
Join Date: Oct 2005
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Quote:
std tires are 285 or 295, not 315 hp is about right for an evo9 on race gas on a dynojet that boost is a little high for pump, probably about right for race gas sway bars are somewhat common in the rear, but can present issues with droop travel, I think you guys have the same issue spring rates are not 12/10....more is necessary w/r comps that weight sounds a little low for an evo in SP trim, although it's probably doable on a stripped RS I can't comment on the other 2 as I don't own one. Last edited by Scooby South; 02-02-2007 at 05:01 PM. |
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02-02-2007, 04:21 PM | #4 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 82885
Join Date: Mar 2005
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Vehicle:06 WRX OBP - Cusco style |
^^^^ thanks ...they alway say to know your enemy.....appreciate it..
Last edited by Scooby South; 02-02-2007 at 05:00 PM. |
02-02-2007, 04:31 PM | #5 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 71634
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: C-Ville, VA
Vehicle:In hibernation... |
Holy smokes was John Tak fast at last year's nat'ls!!!
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02-02-2007, 08:26 PM | #6 |
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:OG05 STi 51E |
Thanks EvoESP....I appreciate it..
been surfing some other boards...and compiling a list... Bill |
02-02-2007, 09:11 PM | #7 | |
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:OG05 STi 51E |
hmmmmmmmmm....interesting what you can find out on other boards..
Quote:
interesting... |
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02-02-2007, 09:49 PM | #8 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 53548
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Redondo Beach, CA
Vehicle:2004 WRX PSM (sold) 2007 S2000 |
It's here, and he likes it a lot.
(more awesome photos by Mako) http://public.fotki.com/makofoto/200...alikesevo.html |
02-02-2007, 09:56 PM | #9 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 71634
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Location: C-Ville, VA
Vehicle:In hibernation... |
^
What size tires does he have on that Evo? |
02-02-2007, 10:03 PM | #10 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 3363
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Salem, Oregon
Vehicle:1982 Reynard Blue, Red, and White |
Quote:
A well setup S2000 will probably not have HUGE bars. The enormous front bar thing is a carryover from stock. Anyone worth their salt will properly setup the car and lose the huge front bar. A well setup S2000 will lift the inside front tire off the ground at corner exit (mine did) and will slalom like a CSP Miata. Spring rates should be at least as much as noted above, particularly in the rear to limit the dynamic toe changes under bump. The cars should be able to make between 250 and 300 horsepower in SP trim, but there's not much extra to wring out of the engine. Honda took almost all of it in its stock form. The big powertrain item is the rear differential. The OE torsen unit (aside from being a little on the weak side) is prone to wheelspin when lifting the inside rear tire off the ground. While suspension setup can largely fix this problem, a good differential will solve it. Of course, this just results in the car being NASTY to drive, as you'll light up both rear tires mid-corner if you're not careful. If you're going to beat the S2000, you'll do it with gearing. The AP1 cars will reach 65mph in 2nd gear, but need to downshift to first below about 35mph. The AP2 cars can lug 2nd down to around 30mph, but need to shift to 3rd at about 60mph. Neither of these cars has safe headroom to be raising rev-limits without serious internal engine work. The only other way to beat them is in the slick conditions. The cars are wicked when its slick... damn near impossible to drive fast. |
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02-02-2007, 10:12 PM | #11 |
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:OG05 STi 51E |
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02-02-2007, 10:18 PM | #12 |
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:OG05 STi 51E |
adhowe70..thanks...exactly what I am looking for...
Bill |
02-02-2007, 10:33 PM | #13 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 3363
Join Date: Dec 2000
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: Salem, Oregon
Vehicle:1982 Reynard Blue, Red, and White |
And another thing... driving a well setup S2000 is damn near orgasmic. I've haven't enjoyed myself at an event as much as I did at Nationals in '04... the car was good and I was good. Driving a poorly setup S2000 is torturous - If you're not perfect, you're spun out.
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02-02-2007, 11:05 PM | #14 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 71634
Join Date: Sep 2004
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Location: C-Ville, VA
Vehicle:In hibernation... |
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02-03-2007, 12:51 AM | #15 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 5879
Join Date: Apr 2001
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MAIC
Location: Richmond,VA
Vehicle:'02 WRX SDN 5MT STS Civic, ITA Integra |
Tom Berry+Tak Evo=good for them... not as good for anyone else in BSP. Tough combo there!
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02-03-2007, 02:18 AM | #16 | |
Merci Buckets
Moderator Member#: 88606
Join Date: Jun 2005
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MWSOC
Location: Michigan
Vehicle:2018 Grand Cherokee Velvet Red Pearl |
Quote:
From what I remember while talking to John and Andy at some of the local events last year... Its a 2006 Evo IX RS. They were running 265 or 285 Kuhmo V710 on 18" WedsSport SA90 front wheels and 5Zigen FNO1R-C rear wheels. I don't know the widths. The coilovers are a custom spring and valve job on a set of Ohlins Flag's from Works done to John Tak's specifications. Camber plates are also from Works. Interior is Sparco Pro2000 seats for both driver and passenger with Schroth harnesses. To the best of my knowledge all engine work and tuning was done by Vishnu, but Andy and John don't let out any specifics about exactly what was done. I had a chance to ride with Andy at a test and tune. WOW is all I can say. The car scares the crap out of me! Insta-spool combined with sticky rubber = insane. Hope that's a little helpful. Last edited by Scooby921; 02-03-2007 at 02:27 AM. |
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02-03-2007, 01:13 PM | #17 |
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Vehicle:1996 Camaro Z28 1LE, '23 WRX & '19 XV |
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02-03-2007, 01:45 PM | #18 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 35313
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: SpryRacing.com AgileAuto.com
Vehicle:Spry Forester Silver Spark |
they are running 285 hoosiers
John and Andy put a "lot" of development time into the car, data aquisition, etc...expensive shocks, and good drivers.. we have a torque advantage etc...I have more to say but I am working on a buddy's saabaru today so I can't spend much time at the computer.. more theories to come... also...EVO's can get LOW compared to a STi comments from friends at nationals though was that my car looked like it was towing a piano compared to Tak/Lieber's car.... I just really think they have invested development time and money wisely.. both of which most of us don't have as much of...time and money.. |
02-03-2007, 06:23 PM | #19 |
Scooby Guru
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Location: Plains of Eastern Montana
Vehicle:09 GH B+ |
Interesting you mention them going lower- Whiteline has come out w/ a roll center kit for the EVO (balljoint extender/tie rod ends). Their comments were that the EVO "suffered" more than the Impreza when lowered- thus their decision to build that kit first.
Obviously such a kit wouldn't be SP legal, but thought Whitelines comments concerning roll centers- EVO vs Impreza interesting. |
02-03-2007, 08:33 PM | #20 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 35313
Join Date: Apr 2003
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Vehicle:Spry Forester Silver Spark |
I haven't done the roll center calc but I have scales at the moment and plan on doing the CG calcs as well as RC on my car for this season..
hmmm...about the whiteline comment... do evo's have a dual arm rear suspension? my memory fails me.. |
02-03-2007, 11:58 PM | #21 |
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:OG05 STi 51E |
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02-04-2007, 02:16 AM | #22 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 35313
Join Date: Apr 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: SpryRacing.com AgileAuto.com
Vehicle:Spry Forester Silver Spark |
Quote:
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02-04-2007, 11:21 AM | #23 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 71634
Join Date: Sep 2004
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MAIC
Location: C-Ville, VA
Vehicle:In hibernation... |
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02-04-2007, 12:26 PM | #24 |
Scooby Specialist
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Vehicle:2017 Camaro |
Interesting that nobody has input on the 350z yet.
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02-04-2007, 12:56 PM | #25 |
Subtly Outspoken
Moderator Member#: 238
Join Date: Sep 1999
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Vehicle:OG05 STi 51E |
IMO Not that competitive overall...or at least there hasn't been one of national caliber to speak of....to heavy...wider than a Vette..ackward dynamics....
minimal upgrades unless you make it forced inducted...then...its off to SM2... Bill |
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