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Old 06-02-2022, 09:35 PM   #6526
blindstuff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig_B View Post
Unfortunately not. I haven't made the trip over there in over a year now. Life is just too dang busy and I prioritize track days over autocross. I can only get so much weekend time away from the wife and kids.

Maybe in the fall, I'll try to do an event or two over there. With gas so ridiculous, autocross just makes more sense than burning $150 driving around Sebring.
I mean Sebring is awesome, bit destructive but awesome. The single largest issue for me with AutoX is the seat time vs a Track days, but the cost difference is crazy.

When I was racing motorcycles it was a new rear tire every weekend. The track is brutal
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Old 06-10-2022, 03:20 PM   #6527
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Would the hypergram in 18x11 +40 fit for maximum class spec? With a 285/30, square to be able to rotate wheels around.

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Originally Posted by Thorium06 View Post
I ran 18x10.5, I think 45 offset with spacers up front in STU on my 05, those fit fine. The problem with 11s is the offset on them becomes too low to fit. The rear can fit a 10 fine if you have the inboard clearance. If I was still in that class I would try 285s on 18x10.5 front and 18x10 rear.

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Old 08-04-2022, 11:06 AM   #6528
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Searched the thread but all the info was a bit old. Although EJs don't change the parts have.

At what point is everyone considering upgrading oil pan / pickup? Debating IAG vs Killer B ( pan / windage / baffle / pickup). I'm getting 200TW tires and started to worry about oil starvation.
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Old 08-04-2022, 02:30 PM   #6529
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Originally Posted by blindstuff View Post
Searched the thread but all the info was a bit old. Although EJs don't change the parts have.

At what point is everyone considering upgrading oil pan / pickup? Debating IAG vs Killer B ( pan / windage / baffle / pickup). I'm getting 200TW tires and started to worry about oil starvation.
Skip the killer b stuff. It’s worthless for autox, or really anything beyond about 1 G lateral. The factory pan is reasonable to about the same point. The pickup is worth while in STU just to avoid any issues there. The IAG pan is good to about 1.4-1.5 lateral G which would be beyond anything 200 TW will produce, and I wouldn’t worry about doing that unless you want to spend the money. That said, to change the pick up the pan is already coming off so if you want to do more things later on then it’s not a bad idea.
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Old 08-04-2022, 03:49 PM   #6530
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I say do the pan and pickup together regardless as soon as you get serious about any kind of motorsport with these engines. Its cheap insurance, and also gives you an easy port for oil temps.
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Old 08-05-2022, 02:35 PM   #6531
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Thanks for the input.

That was my train of thought. If I need to pull the pan to change the pickup, might as well swap the pan.

I'm keeping this car as close to stock as possible. Motivation is just insurance for stickier tires.
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Old 09-07-2022, 03:43 PM   #6532
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blindstuff View Post
Searched the thread but all the info was a bit old. Although EJs don't change the parts have.

At what point is everyone considering upgrading oil pan / pickup? Debating IAG vs Killer B ( pan / windage / baffle / pickup). I'm getting 200TW tires and started to worry about oil starvation.
It's funny how when something new and shiny comes out people hop on the bandwagon, especially if it's IAG.

The Killer B Super G pan is the pan what I use now. I had the IAG, but the sheet metal baffle cracked in a bunch of spots. The "Viton" flaps stiffened and froze open after a few months. The cooling fins made absolutely no difference. When I called for support I was completely blown off.

When I switched I stopped getting low oil pressure readings on left uphill turns. The oil was cooler. I think that's because the KB holds more oil and the pan walls are thinner. The KB pan is half the weight. I'm not an engineer but it seems like some pans are designed to work and others to market well.

I don't mean to disrespect the three letter word company but it seems weird that so much of their stuff I have owned has failed, and it happens to other people too, but the fan boys keep pushing their stuff.
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Old 09-11-2022, 01:00 PM   #6533
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Originally Posted by stiaddict07 View Post
It's funny how when something new and shiny comes out people hop on the bandwagon, especially if it's IAG.

The Killer B Super G pan is the pan what I use now. I had the IAG, but the sheet metal baffle cracked in a bunch of spots. The "Viton" flaps stiffened and froze open after a few months. The cooling fins made absolutely no difference. When I called for support I was completely blown off.

When I switched I stopped getting low oil pressure readings on left uphill turns. The oil was cooler. I think that's because the KB holds more oil and the pan walls are thinner. The KB pan is half the weight. I'm not an engineer but it seems like some pans are designed to work and others to market well.

I don't mean to disrespect the three letter word company but it seems weird that so much of their stuff I have owned has failed, and it happens to other people too, but the fan boys keep pushing their stuff.
Have you logged oil pressure between the two? When you do it becomes clear that one works and the other does not
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Old 09-12-2022, 04:09 PM   #6534
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Have you logged oil pressure between the two? When you do it becomes clear that one works and the other does not
This. I have logs between the KB and IAG pan. The KB is garbage for oil pressure at an autox course vs the IAG. Even the new "super g" pan will have similar issues. And my logging of oil temp shows the opposite where the IAG has lower over all temps vs the KB.

I'm no IAG fan boy, and I still run a KB header, but between the two oil pans I wouldn't even run the KB on my daily driver since it falls over on 225 conti ecs tires and stock suspension vs the IAG holding up to 335 A7's with aero and good suspension.
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Old 09-12-2022, 04:29 PM   #6535
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Is it the pan or pickup/baffle causing the difference in pressures?
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Old 09-12-2022, 09:28 PM   #6536
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Is it the pan or pickup/baffle causing the difference in pressures?
I never tested the iag with the kb pickup but it’s definitely the pan and how it’s baffled. The block windage tray and pickup are secondary imo.

The best way to put it is I couldn’t run more than 5 quarts in the KB or it would puke oil out of the iag aos. With the iag pan I can run 6 full liters (6.2 quarts) and it doesn’t puke at all. Pressure drop on the kb is measured in seconds (30 psi at 7k rpm) vs tenths of a second on the iag (40 psi at 6k). There’s really no comparison.
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Old 09-12-2022, 10:20 PM   #6537
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I never tested the iag with the kb pickup but it’s definitely the pan and how it’s baffled. The block windage tray and pickup are secondary imo.

The best way to put it is I couldn’t run more than 5 quarts in the KB or it would puke oil out of the iag aos. With the iag pan I can run 6 full liters (6.2 quarts) and it doesn’t puke at all. Pressure drop on the kb is measured in seconds (30 psi at 7k rpm) vs tenths of a second on the iag (40 psi at 6k). There’s really no comparison.
I don't think I have any way of monitoring or measuring this. Both my oil temp and pressure gauges are analog. I haven't seen anything out of the ordinary though with the AOS either.
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Old 09-13-2022, 12:14 AM   #6538
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Are you measuring lateral G? You'd have to get over 1.1 sustained and peaks over 1.2 to see failure on the kb.
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Old 09-13-2022, 12:14 AM   #6539
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Are you measuring lateral G? You’d have to get over 1.1 sustained and peaks over 1.2 to see failure on the kb.
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Old 09-13-2022, 01:55 AM   #6540
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Are you measuring lateral G? You'd have to get over 1.1 sustained and peaks over 1.2 to see failure on the kb.
Trackaddict is recording those or higher, but I'm not sure how accurate that is either.
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Old 09-13-2022, 11:40 AM   #6541
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Trackaddict is recording those or higher, but I'm not sure how accurate that is either.
Mine is a hard mount to the chassis race capture system that's feeding all the relevant data to an android tablet running solo storm. One major difference is throttle through corners. If you're not using throttle through the corner the head can fill with oil, but there's no real positive pressure pushing it out the breather.

But I've got an 05 STi I run for fun too that has a KB pan (where the comment of 225 conti's and stock suspension came from), and at an autox it would push oil as well. It was maybe around .9-1 G total, but I was on throttle everywhere with the back end lit up.

The general basis is, if you're competing and pushing the car, the KB will fall down long before the IAG will.
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Old 09-13-2022, 02:36 PM   #6542
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Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Mine is a hard mount to the chassis race capture system that's feeding all the relevant data to an android tablet running solo storm. One major difference is throttle through corners. If you're not using throttle through the corner the head can fill with oil, but there's no real positive pressure pushing it out the breather.

But I've got an 05 STi I run for fun too that has a KB pan (where the comment of 225 conti's and stock suspension came from), and at an autox it would push oil as well. It was maybe around .9-1 G total, but I was on throttle everywhere with the back end lit up.

The general basis is, if you're competing and pushing the car, the KB will fall down long before the IAG will.
Well, thats just not good. An expensive potential problem I can't solve right now. The monitoring would be even more expensive...

Is this an issue on track too or mostly just autox?
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Old 09-13-2022, 05:17 PM   #6543
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Well, thats just not good. An expensive potential problem I can't solve right now. The monitoring would be even more expensive...

Is this an issue on track too or mostly just autox?
I've seen it fall off while getting on/off the freeway if the ramp is long enough so my guess would be both. It is definitely worse at autox with the quick transitions, but the high G load under throttle combined with any bumps would cause similar issues IMO. It *should* be less on track though.

Before I did electronic monitoring I put a camera where I could see the oil pressure gauge. The year prior I was coming off course and out of the corner of my eye I saw the oil pressure gauge moving. The next run I looked at it on course and thought I saw 30-40 psi but wasn't sure. Then I mounted a camera to watch it and saw what it was doing via the (slow to update) gauge. After that I stopped having codrivers and got the electronic monitoring hooked in and saw how bad it really was. Once swapped over the problem was mostly gone, but not entirely as I noted. Still, the few dips I see on the car are very short lived and after very hard elements. And it's not like my car is getting slower over the years so I'm constantly pushing it more. I think an IAG with a accusump would be pretty bullet proof, but a dry sump is still the final solution to oiling in an EJ. Porsche did it years ago because they realized the same thing.
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Old 09-13-2022, 05:18 PM   #6544
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And for the record, the 05 STi is getting an IAG pan as well because I don't want to run it again while it's on the KB.
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Old 09-13-2022, 06:09 PM   #6545
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I've seen it fall off while getting on/off the freeway if the ramp is long enough so my guess would be both. It is definitely worse at autox with the quick transitions, but the high G load under throttle combined with any bumps would cause similar issues IMO. It *should* be less on track though.
So I just went back and watched my vids from this year from both Autox and the track (the unedited originals not the youtube versions linked here), I never see any pressures drop bellow high 70's. Most of the time its in the 90's. I don't see any excessive drops during corners.



Its hard to see, especially with the FPS flicker of the digital gauge, but its there. Overlay shows G's as well.

Note: I had a misfire during that track day video so I was off throttle a lot of the time babying it.


What pump are you using? What sensor are you using for oil pressures? Where is it mounted?
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Old 09-13-2022, 06:36 PM   #6546
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Watching your videos, you're probably at the threshold for starting to see issues. Not a slam, but you're not running Hoosiers, and the car is not stressing the oiling system a lot yet. The average G I'm seeing in your vids is about what I saw in my 05, but the throttle usage is different due to FWD and differential setup. You're waiting to get on throttle until the car is mostly pointed straight (as evidenced by the one tire fire stuff), while I'm on throttle before the apex. That's a key difference in EJ oil issues.

The average sustained G in my autox car is 1.5 and it'll often peak around 2.0. Combined lat/long is even higher.

I have a shimmed 11mm pump, one of the standard AEM 0-5v sensors, and it's mounted in the back galley by the turbo. I've ran different sensors over the years and they're all within a few psi.
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Old 09-13-2022, 06:47 PM   #6547
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Watching your videos, you're probably at the threshold for starting to see issues. Not a slam, but you're not running Hoosiers, and the car is not stressing the oiling system a lot yet. The average G I'm seeing in your vids is about what I saw in my 05, but the throttle usage is different due to FWD and differential setup. You're waiting to get on throttle until the car is mostly pointed straight (as evidenced by the one tire fire stuff), while I'm on throttle before the apex. That's a key difference in EJ oil issues.

The average sustained G in my autox car is 1.5 and it'll often peak around 2.0. Combined lat/long is even higher.

I have a shimmed 11mm pump, one of the standard AEM 0-5v sensors, and it's mounted in the back galley by the turbo. I've ran different sensors over the years and they're all within a few psi.
Ok, I won't worry about it much then. Won't be running Hooisers probably ever lol

Using my sensor at the back galley as well, the upgraded stainless sensor, 11mm pump too not shimmed. I should figure out a better data logging setup in the future though, the accesport only does so much.

My next build, whenever that is, I'll try an IAG pan.
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Old 09-14-2022, 10:45 AM   #6548
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Ok, I won't worry about it much then. Won't be running Hooisers probably ever lol

Using my sensor at the back galley as well, the upgraded stainless sensor, 11mm pump too not shimmed. I should figure out a better data logging setup in the future though, the accesport only does so much.

My next build, whenever that is, I'll try an IAG pan.
I use the AP in my STi to monitor oil pressure and temp via the TGV housing inputs since it's not flex fuel. Just an option though, and it's possible to log those channels.
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Old 09-16-2022, 10:41 AM   #6549
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In a world run by pointless FB groups, its so refreshing to see intelligent discussion somewhere.
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Old 09-17-2022, 12:53 PM   #6550
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Some heavily modified STU setups
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