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Old 05-22-2017, 11:05 AM   #26
KillerBMotorsport
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Originally Posted by playslikepage71 View Post
Seems like CFD is a pretty accessible technology these days. Larger aftermarket companies can afford stuff like STAR-CCM+ or Ansys. Even Solidworks flow simulation does a decent job for simple stuff and that license is pretty cheap. I know a lot of you have laser point cloud scanners to get the OEM geometry with more than enough accuracy for CFD. To act like your decision wasn't more of a business decision seems disingenuous to me. Doing real world testing on an intercooler is cheap and easy. Even a DIY person could rig something up to test shroud/sealing designs. We've already got half the sensors installed from the factory.
There's a pretty decent jump in capabilities on a $15K piece of software vs a +$150K piece of software. We rent out time on the latter when necessary for that reason.

Yes you can put fans on the dyno, street test, etc. This is by no means a comparable replacement of all the time and resources put into the OEM setup.

Maybe my point was not as clear as it could have been, but the decision was a business decision. There was no point in adding the cost to the setup because the value ratio (bang-for-the-buck) isn't there. I don't see adding a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. Again, let me be clear, this is in regards to OUR OWN TMIC. I am not stating any of this in regards to anyone else's products. I'm sure GS has their reasons, and Turbo XS, and Racer X, etc...

Bottom line, and back OT, is if you bought a product that does not come with a cover, find a way to use the OEM one.
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Old 05-22-2017, 02:19 PM   #27
GrimmSpeed
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Originally Posted by uofime View Post
Re: air purposely being directed around the intercooler core.

Subaru is clearly doing this for a reason. Blowing air through there is being done to help develop flow through the engine bay and out under with the car.
This is a bit counter intuitive but clearly Subaru did the research and development.

Proof being a guy I know had a FMIC on his GV and like in the GD added a block off plate to the scoop. Once he was tracking he ran into overheating issues. On a hunch because that was all he changed since the last event he pulled the block off plate off and his overheating problems went away.
That certainly is interesting to note, and is something that would be both cool and useful to test further for the block off+FMIC crowd. Both the WRX and the STI stock splitters for this chassis have ways to allow air going through the hood scoop to pass through without going through the portion directed to the intercooler itself. This could be for a number of reasons such as you mention to promote flow through the engine bay, under and out of the car (sounds very plausible, and I would agree). But it could also be for reasons that we don't necessarily understand such as a NVH thing, or preventative against pressure build up due to total coverage debris over the intercooler, or something else.

My point is I don't know the answer, but like you said I know Subaru is doing it for a reason, which is why our splitter takes this into account at the hood scoop as well. We greatly increased the portion of the scoop that is "caught" based on what we also know about the STI scoop, but we did not attempt to make the seal of the splitter to the hood scoop complete either.

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Originally Posted by joeb8888 View Post
I think grimmspeed isn't talking about totally blocking off air flow into the engine bay, but directing most of it through the intercooler instead of directing it at the intercooler. Without the intercooler essentially sealed to the hood scoop air is directed at it and able to flow over it instead of pushed through it. I think that there does need to be air pushed through the engine bay directing air also down and out of the bottom drawing heat out of the engine bay. But also air pushed through the intercooler is also air being pushed through the engine bay except it is wicking heat off the intercooler.
Exactamundo. The other thing to consider too is that the pressure drop of the ambient air flowing across the ambient rows of the intercooler is very very low, especially compared to the pressure drop going through the charge rows of the intercooler. This is because the length that the ambient air passes through is much much shorter than the charge rows, and that the fin types are straight through as opposed to offset and louvered. Not much effect is lost of the suggested case of the air from the scoop flowing through the core, and out under the car.

Quote:
Originally Posted by playslikepage71 View Post
Seems like CFD is a pretty accessible technology these days. Larger aftermarket companies can afford stuff like STAR-CCM+ or Ansys. Even Solidworks flow simulation does a decent job for simple stuff and that license is pretty cheap. I know a lot of you have laser point cloud scanners to get the OEM geometry with more than enough accuracy for CFD. To act like your decision wasn't more of a business decision seems disingenuous to me. Doing real world testing on an intercooler is cheap and easy. Even a DIY person could rig something up to test shroud/sealing designs. We've already got half the sensors installed from the factory.
This is very very true. In fact user utc_pyro is doing some pretty cool DIY testing of hood scoop effectiveness over on the LGT forum. And you are absolutely 100% correct.

The point I was making, and Boggie1688 actually made several days ago is that we did not set out to reinvent the wheel with the ducting to the TMIC. We simply accounted for a re-positioning and size increase of the core that seems to have gone ignored from other designs. It doesn't take a whole lotta CFD to be able to tell that if you have an intercooler with X number of ambient rows, but nearly 1/3 of them are blocked off by the factory engine cover, that you aren't getting a whole lotta flow through them, and are losing some cooling potential. With the very limited size of the hood scoop entrance compared to an increased size intercooler core, it only makes sense why you would want to maximize the ability for ambient air to flow through the entire core, not just some of it.

But obviously I can only speak for our intercooler design. I just wanted to make it very clear that we were solving a very simple and obvious deficiency with regards to this particular combination of OEM and aftermarket parts. And that we were most certainly not saying the time and effort spent by the subaru engineers didn't make sense for the stock intercooler and design criteria (of which we'll never be too sure of, as per my first paragraph).

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Old 05-22-2017, 08:49 PM   #28
mishapopa
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So my engine cover broke (front holder broke), what do.
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Old 05-23-2017, 12:16 AM   #29
uofime
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Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
So my engine cover broke (front holder broke), what do.
Perrin sells a lovely bracket to replace the front pegs with regular fasteners. I don't recall what it's called, but I'm sure you can find it on their site.
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Old 05-23-2017, 06:34 AM   #30
KillerBMotorsport
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Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
So my engine cover broke (front holder broke), what do.
Junkyard, used (likely removed by guys running FMIC), or the Perrin option.
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Old 05-23-2017, 08:17 AM   #31
simpleJ
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Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
So my engine cover broke (front holder broke), what do.
Zip tie it down. That's what I did.


One tie around the louver and around the alternator cover beam thing.

Uber cheap and easy
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Old 05-23-2017, 09:38 AM   #32
mishapopa
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Originally Posted by simpleJ View Post
Zip tie it down. That's what I did.


One tie around the louver and around the alternator cover beam thing.

Uber cheap and easy
I thought of doing that lol.

Are you using the plastic pop clips in the back? They don't seem to fit on my MAP intercooler, I might just use a small nut and bolt in the to hold it down to the IC.
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Old 05-23-2017, 10:03 AM   #33
Chuckable
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Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
So my engine cover broke (front holder broke), what do.


Try some epoxy. Worked great for me. Not using the engine cover anymore though because have a GS intercooler.
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Old 05-23-2017, 09:51 PM   #34
simpleJ
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Originally Posted by mishapopa View Post
I thought of doing that lol.

Are you using the plastic pop clips in the back? They don't seem to fit on my MAP intercooler, I might just use a small nut and bolt in the to hold it down to the IC.
Yea I am, but I am on the stock IC
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