Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday October 20, 2017
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors > Non-Subaru News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-16-2017, 01:33 PM   #1
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
'07 Land Cruiser
'12 RAV4 EV

PWN3D FCA under the gun for diesel emissions defeat devices

https://jalopnik.com/the-u-s-governm...l-c-1796166922

Quote:
FCA was issued a notice of violation in January 2017, saying 104,000 diesel V6 Jeep and Ram vehicles made between 2014 and 2016 were allegedly equipped with so-called “defeat devices.” And last month, the government filed suit against FCA for allegedly violating the Clean Air Act by installing at least eight undisclosed defeat devices on the 3.0-liter diesel vehicles.

The notice of violation was issued in the waning days of former President Barack Obama’s administration, giving off the impression that, perhaps, his EPA wanted to take action on certain measures before it departed.

But the emails obtained by Jalopnik show the government had raised concerns to FCA about emissions problems as early as November 2015, just after Volkswagen’s Dieselgate scandal emerged. It appears to be the earliest interaction between FCA and the regulator over the alleged emissions violations known to date.
Seems a very similar story...
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 06-16-2017, 03:10 PM   #2
Scooby-Doode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28976
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2016 Step 2 Push
Buggy GT

Default

Good for the EPA. However, fines ain't gonna do nothin' till an executive or executives are made an example of.
Scooby-Doode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 04:30 PM   #3
Pre
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:
5 do - all the time

Default

Witch hunt, one diesel manu after the next....
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 08:19 PM   #4
Scooby-Doode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28976
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2016 Step 2 Push
Buggy GT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Witch hunt, one diesel manu after the next....
No worries, all the diesel industry needs to do is organize a Coffee and Coal Rolling event at the EPA head quarters.
Scooby-Doode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-16-2017, 10:59 PM   #5
shikataganai
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 92634
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Vehicle:
'07 Land Cruiser
'12 RAV4 EV

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Witch hunt, one diesel manu after the next....
Seems like everyone who used Bosch firmware was in on it, as was Bosch itself as the authors of the code in question.
shikataganai is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 06:59 AM   #6
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NEPA
Vehicle:
Hint
forward in Italian

Default

Bracing for diesel bans in Europe


Bracing for diesel bans in Europe

Looming crackdown jeopardizes powertrain plans

Christiaan Hetzner Twitter
Almost 30 years ago, Volkswagen ads introduced the German term fahrvergnuegen to communicate driving enjoyment. But now, because of its cheating on diesel emissions tests, VW has unwittingly helped introduce a new, less flattering term: fahrverbote, or driving ban.

Driving bans loom in Europe as governments in Germany, France and the U.K. crack down on toxic nitrogen oxide emissions from diesels, leaving brands such as VW, Mercedes-Benz and Volvo at risk because they have strategically bet on the powertrain to meet tougher carbon dioxide emissions rules that start to take effect in 2020.

Diesel engines have been a popular European consumer preference. But now, the industry strategy is in jeopardy.

The growing anti-diesel sentiment will make it harder for automakers to meet the European Union's fleet CO2 target of 95 grams per kilometer. Diesels are about 20 percent more fuel efficient than gasoline engines, so they are key to most manufacturers' CO2-reduction strategies. Automakers that miss their CO2 targets face stiff fines.

But demand for diesels, which held steady in the immediate aftermath of VW's scandal, is starting to crumble because of intensifying public scrutiny of the technology, especially in Germany. Stuttgart, the cradle of Germany's auto industry, could even prevent 3-year-old diesels from entering the city limits on certain days starting next year. Following a court order this year, Munich likely will be the next to institute a ban.

That news had an immediate sales effect: Diesels accounted for just 40 percent of Germany's new-car sales in March, down from 45.8 percent a year earlier and a high of 48.1 percent in 2012.

'A catastrophe'

A senior German industry official called the public reaction "a catastrophe."

"The first thing we need to do is get away from this debate over fahrverbote," he said. There will be no solution to cleaning up diesels until after Germany's national election in September, he predicted.

As other governments joined Germany in cracking down on the powertrain, diesel sales fell to 46 percent of the European market for the first three months of 2017, from 50 percent in the first quarter of 2016, according to data from JATO Dynamics.

London's mayor said in mid-February that owners of pre-Euro 4 diesels will face an extra £10 "toxicity charge" when entering the city center starting in October.

BMW has the highest share of diesels in Europe among German luxury brands, at 71 percent, according to JATO. More than 80 percent of Volvo's cars are diesel, and Land Rover barely sells any gasoline-powered vehicles in Europe.

But some experts believe that the diesel-heavy premium brands will have less immediate worry because they also have high levels of fleet sales in Europe. Fleet customers often drive corporate cars for just two to three years before returning them — meaning they will not immediately worry about whether governments might enact driving bans years down the road.

More immediate concern likely will come from manufacturers that sell diesels primarily to private buyers, who keep their vehicles for 10 years, on average. Those consumers will think hard before committing long term to a diesel that might be banned in the years ahead.

One brand that could face this pressure of uncertainty is Peugeot, which counted on diesels for nearly half of its sales during the first three months of this year. That was higher than any of Volkswagen Group's volume brands.

Victim of success?

Peugeot's vulnerability on diesels masks the company's achievement. It has the lowest measured CO2 emissions of any automaker competing in Europe and is one of the only brands to use the most expensive NOx reduction-technology, SCR urea treatment with AdBlue, across its entire diesel lineup. The public backlash against diesels in general could make Peugeot a victim if consumers have to confront a new reality of not being able to drive the cars into Europe's biggest cities.

Tobias Ulbrich, a specialist in transportation law with the German firm Rogert & Ulbrich in Dusseldorf, has little sympathy for carmakers, arguing they have brought the bans upon themselves with their scandalous behavior. He is representing some 1,700 Volkswagen owners in Germany suing the automaker for damages, claiming their VW diesels have lost resale value because of the emissions scandal and vehicle recall.

Ulbrich said the driving bans are the result of automakers' failure to meet NOx limits. And that has hurt the perception of diesel vehicles.

"In an environment where bans are an immediate threat," he said, "those people that regularly drive in the major metropolitan areas are not going to purchase a diesel under any circumstance — no matter how clean manufacturers claim these cars allegedly are."

Autonews.com
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 07:02 AM   #7
AVANTI R5
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 73805
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: NEPA
Vehicle:
Hint
forward in Italian

Default

EPA suspected Fiat Chrysler of using 'defeat device' in 2015

David Shepardson
UPDATED: 6/16/17 9:41 pm ET - adds FCA statement
WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency told Fiat Chrysler Automobiles in November 2015 it suspected some of its vehicles had at least one "defeat device" that improperly bypassed emissions controls, emails disclosed under a public records request on Friday show.

The EPA and California Air Resources Board accused Fiat Chrysler in January of using undisclosed software to illegally allow excess diesel emissions in 104,000 U.S. 2014-2016 Jeep Grand Cherokees and Dodge Ram 1500 trucks. Fiat Chrysler did not immediately comment on the public records.

Byron Bunker, director of the EPA's Transportation and Air Quality compliance division, said in a January 2016 email to Fiat Chrysler obtained by Reuters under the Freedom of Information Act that he was "very concerned about the unacceptably slow pace of the efforts to understand the high NOx emissions."

NOx refers to the nitrogen oxides in polluted air.

Bunker's email said the EPA had told Fiat Chrysler officials at a November 2015 meeting that at least one auxiliary emissions control device appears to violate the agency's regulations.

Mike Dahl, head of vehicle safety and regulatory compliance for Fiat Chrysler's U.S. unit, responded in a separate email that the company was working diligently and understood EPA's concerns. He added that if EPA declared vehicles to contain defeat devices, it would result in "potentially significant regulatory and commercial consequences."

Fiat Chrysler said in a statement, meanwhile, that the emails showed it had been "meaningfully engaged with the EPA regarding its diesel engine emissions for an extended period of time."

The documents redacted the vehicles named, but two officials briefed on the matter said they referred to diesel models.

At an event in Venice on Friday, FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne said he was "confident of the fact that there was no intention on our part to set up a defeat device that was even remotely similar to what (Volkswagen) had in their cars."

The Justice Department sued Fiat Chrysler in May, saying it placed eight undeclared "defeat devices," or auxiliary emissions controls, in 2014-2016 Fiat Chrysler diesel vehicles that led to "substantially" higher than allowable levels of nitrogen oxide, which is linked to smog formation and respiratory problems.

It has a separate ongoing criminal probe into the matter.

Marchionne said on Friday he was "confident that we have a solution that is acceptable to EPA and (California) in terms of 2017 certification and as flashback mechanism on all the 2014 to 2016 cars."

The EPA notice was the result of a probe that arose out of regulators' investigation of rival Volkswagen AG's excess diesel emissions.
AVANTI R5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 11:19 AM   #8
Scooby-Doode
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 28976
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: New York
Vehicle:
2016 Step 2 Push
Buggy GT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AVANTI R5 View Post
At an event in Venice on Friday, FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne said he was "confident of the fact that there was no intention on our part to set up a defeat device that was even remotely similar to what (Volkswagen) had in their cars."


Marchionne said on Friday he was "confident that we have a solution that is acceptable to EPA and (California) in terms of 2017 certification and as flashback mechanism on all the 2014 to 2016 cars."



Talk about admitting guilt. ish just gets better and better
Scooby-Doode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 04:49 PM   #9
arghx7
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 232940
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: cold
Default

That's a VM Motori engine. Chrysler doesn't develop diesels, they outsource almost all of it. And VM was owned by GM for a while. And yes Bosch supplies the control system. It's complicated.
arghx7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 05:06 PM   #10
Skylab
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Encinitas
Default FCA under the gun for diesel emissions defeat devices

Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Seems like everyone who used Bosch firmware was in on it, as was Bosch itself as the authors of the code in question.


...they can send that $300 check any day now. It'll help pay for the JB4.
I miss my TDI.
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2017, 10:04 PM   #11
sir_wagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 71549
Join Date: Sep 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Anywhere but on Facebook.
Default

It seems to me that the auto industry, and the regulators, need to sit down and have an open and honest discussion of what are reasonable emission regulations for diesel engines. This practice of setting pretend targets that the manufacturers then pretend can be met does not seem to be working very well.
sir_wagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 08:18 AM   #12
DJ 9iron
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 11349
Join Date: Oct 2001
Vehicle:
2016 Mustang GT
Blue

Default

Money laundering scheme.
DJ 9iron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 11:53 AM   #13
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2014 GLK/allroad
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

ding ding ding


Massive amounts of money are getting transferred form companies to the government in the name of clean air. And not one single thing is being done with that money to help solve the problem as taking money from the people who make the cars does not clean the air.

Here is an idea. Make realistic targets and maybe people will hit them.
SCRAPPYDO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 12:14 PM   #14
Keshav
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 1654
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Vehicle:
2017 MX-5 RF LE
MV Agusta Brutale S

Default

That's a nice multi-billion dollar corporation you have there. Shame if something happened to it.
Keshav is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 12:25 PM   #15
RealDealTarheel
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142447
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Not so Fair...banks
Vehicle:
2017 Limited STI WRB
06 Outback 3.0R

Default

I read FCA to mean Ferengi Commerce Authority, looks like I wasn't too far off.
RealDealTarheel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 12:46 PM   #16
Masterauto
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 198376
Join Date: Dec 2008
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Delaware
Vehicle:
17 Alfa Giulia Q S
Nissan GT-R 15, STI 15

Default

Watch for a BIG growing of antidiesel world wide by same folks pushing for global CO2 tax, the UN .
Masterauto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 07:34 PM   #17
Skylab
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Encinitas
Default

I want to say something along the lines of, "...but her emails!"

"...but, the torque!"
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 07:34 PM   #18
Skylab
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 4263
Join Date: Feb 2001
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Encinitas
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylab View Post
...they can send that $300 check any day now. It'll help pay for the JB4.
I miss my TDI.


...arrived today.
Skylab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2017, 08:20 PM   #19
[email protected]
NASIOC Vendor
 
Member#: 67
Join Date: Jul 1999
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: San Diego, CA
Vehicle:
1999 Outlasting
the competition.

Default

I love my ED truck!

I used it to tow my EV back down from SF-SD. got 25MPG towing.

tom@kartboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.