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Old 03-06-2019, 05:11 PM   #76
JustyWRC
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Originally Posted by flyboy1100 View Post
But what difference would it make to fix it now via subaru paying or later with Subaru still paying?
Yeah. I definitely wasn't thinking much.
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Old 03-06-2019, 11:24 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by carnz-pj-410 View Post
Pics of what


The process. I have personally torn down 2 FB20s so i know what they look like, but the “special tools” to swap springs w/o pulling cam carriers
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Old 03-07-2019, 12:24 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
He's saying he wants d pics. It's sort of a right of passage around these here parts.
Chano, you keep posting this same thing in all the threads.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:13 PM   #79
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I saw a BRZ on CL or FB Marketplace a few weeks ago. Dude was listing the valve spring recall as a positive.. because "It means you can get a free engine rebuild whenever you want". I laughed. I just hope the kid that buys it from him doesn't think that's really a thing.
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:17 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Chano, you keep posting this same thing in all the threads.
I don't mind it... as long as he spells "RITE of passage" the RIGHT way...
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:21 PM   #81
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I don't mind it... as long as he spells "RITE of passage" the RIGHT way...
Your rite, Neg!
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Old 03-07-2019, 01:31 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by keepclam View Post
Chano, you keep posting this same thing in all the threads.
LIES!
Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
I don't mind it... as long as he spells "RITE of passage" the RIGHT way...
I didn't realize anyone still noticed "rite". Apparently it's derived from a French phrase, "rite de passage" which English translate to "right of passage". I ain't gonna French it up tho. All or nothing, baby! 'Murica!

We still waitin' for dem d pics tho.
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Old 03-08-2019, 05:28 PM   #83
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Scion FR-S, Subaru BRZ Owners Claim a Recall Fix Is Destroying Their Engines

sually when you take your car into the dealership for a safety recall, it comes out the other side of the shop imperceptibly better and safer than before. These are essentially mechanical firmware updates. It's theoretically one of the least risky things you could do to a vehicle—and at the end of the day, it's mandated by law. Yet for a growing number of Scion FR-S and Subaru BRZ owners, it also appears to be destroying their engines.

Over the last few weeks, forums and social media have lit up with complaints that a recent recall to fix a valve spring issue the 2.0-liter flat-four engine found 400,000 Subarus and Scions is actually causing more harm than the original issue itself. This is not a simple procedure; it takes around 12 hours and requires the engine to be removed from the car and torn apart. The question is whether dealership techs—specifically, Toyota dealership techs, as we'll detail here—are botching the job due to incomplete guidance, inexperience, or both.

We've contacted Toyota for a statement and will update this story when we hear back. And full disclosure: I am one of those affected owners, having taken my perfectly-functional 2013 Scion FR-S in for the recall in February and watched it die on the side of the road two weeks later. But you'll see this is not a case of an aggrieved soul using a platform for revenge. This is looking like a serious problem, one that's already affected more cars than were reported to have issues during the recall period itself.

A registry thread on the FT86Club owners forum contains a full 17 owners reporting everything from sudden power loss, knocking, and complete engine failure in the last month after getting the valve spring recall done. Notably, 15 are Scions, while only 2 are Subarus. An owner on the r/ft86 page on Reddit wrote that their car was "dead," and that the dealer's limited answers seemed to circle around an oil starvation issue. "The service manager also let slip to me that mine is the third engine that's died after they performed the recall," they added.

From this Wisconsin 86 Club Facebook group post from late January, "I heard from one of our main techs that the valve spring recall is destroying engines. They don't know why but this dealership in FL is not doing any more until Toyota gets back to us on a cause and solution."

Even if Toyota and Subaru aren't giving any answers right now, a common consensus has developed at FT86Club and elsewhere that technicians are applying too much sealant when putting the engines back together, causing the liquid gasket to seep into the oil. You don't have to be a mechanic to know that doesn't sound good. And based on my personal experience and the evidence we've scrounged up, it sounds like Toyota and Subaru know it too.

I purchased my certified pre-owned 2013 Scion FR-S in December 2016. The Toyota dealership advertised it as an in-house "Original" meaning its first owner leased it there, serviced it there, and gave it back to that same store to be resold to depreciation-evaders like myself. Because I'm so sensible, I even sprung for a 36-month/60,000km extended comprehensive warranty in the event that, uh...well, you'll see.

The recall was issued in December of 2018, and like a good millennial, I waited until the beginning of February to get it done. In that time, I researched the procedure and was concerned enough about its complexity that I double checked with the dealership that the technician had done it before. "The technician that will be working on your vehicle has done the recall before and is factory trained by Toyota so I hope this does help ease your mind," came the soothing response.

I dropped my car off on February 6, picked it up on February 8, and thought nothing of it for two weeks until it started to bog down during a spot of spirited driving one chilly morning. An ominous knocking rose up, and a few hundred yards later the poor thing died and refused to start. Exactly as the forums described—though most of those threads haven't even been started yet. Like other owners, I was in the dark.

The dealership took the car in on a flatbed and told me they'd promptly get to work on rooting out what exactly had happened. As part of the investigation, Toyota corporate allegedly requested pictures of the inside of my timing cover from the dealer, a part that's held on by RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanizing) silicone—the liquid gasket that owners have been speculating might be the root cause of the failures.

Worth noting is the fact that since the recall began, Subaru has issued revisions to its instruction package with bold, highlighted sections calling for technicians to "TAKE THEIR TIME when performing intricate repair procedures." The most recent copy that we could find was revised on February 13th, five days after I had already collected my car after doing the recall.

It's also helpful to take a look at the publicly available job aid outlining where sealant is supposed to go. As you can see, it's not as simple as smearing on some silicone. It has to be done in a very specific manner that's unique to the construction of the flat-four engine, a construction that's not found on any other Toyota vehicle outside the Scion FR-S and now the Toyota 86.

The engine itself was designed and built by Subaru. At this point, we're not going to definitively say Toyota techs are screwing up this job left and right because of inexperience working on Boxer engines. But given the evidence, especially the fact that far more of the post-recall problems are popping up in Scions serviced at Toyota dealerships...it's a strong theory.

Unfortunately for some affected owners, the lack of hard proof or an official acknowledgment that the recall has anything to do with the engine failures is apparently going to cost them big bucks. "Dealership says tech found the ECU codes were recently deleted when they took the car from me. I told them I don't know what's going on. They say, based on that, they are not paying. I'm screwed," reports one FT86Club member.

Based on my last conversation with my dealership, it's currently going back and forth with Toyota Canada to determine whether or not that extended comprehensive warranty I shelled out extra for back in 2016 would cover this repair. The fix is expected to cost Toyota $5,500 CAD if they do it at-cost under warranty—more if they decide to stick me with the bill. A quick search on Autotrader.ca reveals that 2013 FR-S's are currently hovering at only around $13,000 to $16,000 CAD depending on mileage and condition. The math is getting tough.

All of this begs the question: If Toyota service technicians are having trouble working on Subaru's FA20, what can first-year Supra owners expect with that car's BMW powerplant?
http://www.thedrive.com/news/26848/s...-their-engines
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Old 03-08-2019, 07:17 PM   #84
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Toyota techs trying to rebuild Subaru motors... Who woulda thought
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Old 03-08-2019, 07:35 PM   #85
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Toyota techs trying to rebuild Subaru motors... Who woulda thought
Soon to be rebuilding BMW motors as well...
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Old 03-09-2019, 09:04 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by Kostamojen View Post
Toyota techs trying to rebuild Subaru motors... Who woulda thought
There are BRZs blowing motors also. So there is a design flaw in the procedure somewhere or a part that has a sensitive orientation. Seems link this whole procedure was not well thought out, documented or presented.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 03-09-2019, 10:36 AM   #87
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What I read was its mostly the Toyotas, and mostly due to technician incompetence. They used too much three bond in places which clogs up the VVT system or other oil passages and blows the motor.
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Old 03-09-2019, 12:45 PM   #88
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My buddy works at a Toyota dealer, and a lot of the guys understandably do not have the most experience with the boxer engines. These recalls are not going too smoothly over there. My other friend works at a Subaru dealer and even he says some of the techs are having a hard time with the BRZs, I don't thing this is going to end well for Subaru.
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Old 03-09-2019, 01:00 PM   #89
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Default Subaru may recall quite a few cars for valve spring issues

Follow the directions, only lay a bead of sealer the proper size ( its in the FSM) and allow it to cure. It isn’t rocket science, but when you have hourly mechs are dealers aren’t making money on recall work......

I tore down my “new” engine, completely resealed everything, have no leaks or problems, but I followed the instructions....
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Old 03-12-2019, 10:30 AM   #90
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I'm helping broker a BRZ sale this evening. It's a 2019 Limited auto trans. Any issues with the 2019 motor so I can stop this sale if it's affected?
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Old 03-12-2019, 11:49 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
I'm helping broker a BRZ sale this evening. It's a 2019 Limited auto trans. Any issues with the 2019 motor so I can stop this sale if it's affected?
None that I've seen. Underpowered performance motor is reliable performance motor, so long as a Toyota tech doesn't touch the Subaru motor.
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Old 04-02-2019, 01:22 PM   #92
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Seems to be holding up that this has been much more of a horror show for 86 owners.

Trying to keep my cool over the prospect of my Impreza having its engine ripped apart in May. If this speculation about Toyota techs not being well-versed in working on boxers is true, then that puts me at a little more ease since my particular Subaru dealer will likely have dozens more recalls under their belt once I'm up.
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Old 04-02-2019, 07:08 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
I like how the first word of the quote from "the drive" was misspelled, "usually" people proof read their work.
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Old 04-05-2019, 12:11 AM   #94
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My BRZ goes in next Monday. Fingers crossed the mechanic will know his stuff and do quality work.
Not to excited they have to pull the engine though.
Lots could go wrong after reassembly.
If it does...will just have to deal with it.
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Old 04-05-2019, 07:48 AM   #95
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Anytime a mechanic pulls a motor out, their is a chance for a mistake.
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Old 04-05-2019, 01:11 PM   #96
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My BRZ goes in next Monday. Fingers crossed the mechanic will know his stuff and do quality work.
Not to excited they have to pull the engine though.
Lots could go wrong after reassembly.
If it does...will just have to deal with it.
When we went through this went the RS (Headgasket fiasco), the trick was to get a master tech at the dealership. The ordinary mechanics would just f it up and it caused massive headaches for owners. With many people ending up in lemon/buyback scenarios. If it's a tech/mechanic that is well seasoned/experienced it should go fine. If it's a new jack, you're f'd.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:57 PM   #97
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We took my wife's 2013 Impreza (85k miles) in for the valve spring recall a couple of weeks ago.

The dealership initially claimed it would take ~3 days. On the 3rd day, they said their engine lift had broken, so they would need a few more days.

After that, they of course cited several other issues they had found and offered to fix them "at discounted labor" due to the engine already being out: Leaking camshaft seal (quoted $1400 for that repair, even with the "discount," LOL), noisy idler pulleys, etc., for a suggested "discounted" grand total of just shy of $2500.

My wife had insisted on buying the extended warranty--can't believe it worked out for a change!--and after a call to SOA and backs-and-forth with the dealership, they agreed that yes, these were warranty issues. Well, except for the fact the a/c system was devoid of all refrigerant (huh? Worked fine in December when we last used a/c... wonder if they screwed up bleeding the system when they pulled the engine?), which they wanted $190 to diagnose with dye.

Another week goes by, and turns out they did the above repairs, took it for a test drive, and noticed the rear wheel bearings were shot (and they were right, though I'm amazed the wheel bearings failed that early, despite my Forester's losing one at 105k). That, too, was a warranty repair. As was the oil control valve they discovered was faulty (the write-up said "customer reports CEL" which is not true, but whatever; maybe it was the test driver who saw a CEL).

My wife picked the car up Friday afternoon, and drove it a bit over the weekend (under 100 miles). Today, it was driving strangely, and the engine kept racing, then it threw a CEL with a P0017 and P0019 code.

The dealership claimed it's just a faulty sensor, that it is a covered repair (after initially saying it would be a $50 deductible under the extended warranty), and that it only took 30 minutes to fix.

I think I have reason to really be worried at this point? It seems like they have made things consistently worse. First the broken a/c, then the CEL on the oil control valve, now the P0017 & 19 codes (both camshaft position codes, IIRC). The cabin stinks of hot oil during normal driving, but given all the stuff they messed with, I kind of expected a hot oil smell for a while. Now I'm not so sure all is OK.
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Old Yesterday, 05:52 PM   #98
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Threw another CEL today. Didn't have my reader with me; it's still at the dealership undergoing "diagnostics." Not IMHO looking good.
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Old Yesterday, 07:06 PM   #99
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Dang! My 2014 Crosstrek has over 80k. Hopefully nothing like this happens to it... I hate that car. Sorry, bud. Keep us posted!
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Old Today, 10:53 AM   #100
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Read the horror stories over on the BRZ ft86 forum. Seems more like a Toyota issue with their techs, but what a complete cluster f.

Glad my 2012 got totaled so I don’t have to deal with this
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