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Old 05-18-2017, 08:30 PM   #1
IllN
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Default Advice: GTWORX vs. Ohlins R&T

I know this is an unusual comparison so bear with me.

I have a GR STi hatch that sees less than 6k miles/year - mix of city, track days, and 3hr - 10hr trips. No commuting tho . The car is currently on Cusco Zero 2Rs w/ electronic adjustment + whiteline sways.

My wife & I can't live w/ the ride any longer. It's great for track days, and that's about it. The Cuscos are just harsh on the street.

Understanding that that spring rates on the Ohlins are similar @ 500/400 vs. 440/440 for the cuscos, I'm wondering if the DFV & general quality will make these a good option? I can't find very many reviews of the R&Ts vs others on the street. My only other experience with Ohlins is in a GD time attack car & sportbikes. I know they're awesome on the track...

GTWORX seems to be more of a known qty and the go-to recommendation.

Does anyone have experience with both the R&Ts & the GTWORX/RCE struts? TIA
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Old 05-19-2017, 04:02 AM   #2
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Keep in mind that the Ohlins is using a softer spring in the rear than in front. Not sure why. You could try swapping them. Also there are several reviews of there not being enough rear travel on the Ohlins damper if you have bumpy roads.

If you're looking at the Ohlins why not the RCE Tarmac2? You can spec out the springs (softer if you want) and then adjust dampening and rebound independently. Based on the KW v3 I believe. Same pricing roughly as Ohlins with more adjustability. Ohlins is an inverted monotube if that makes any difference.
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:30 PM   #3
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i had ohlins dfv's on my evo with much stiffer springs than that and they rode better than the stock springs/struts. i really doubt the rce's will ride better.
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Old 05-19-2017, 08:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
i had ohlins dfv's on my evo with much stiffer springs than that and they rode better than the stock springs/struts. i really doubt the rce's will ride better.
Awesome thanks.

I've ridden in some cars (not Subarus) with KW V3s and was not impressed on the street - very good on the track tho.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:35 PM   #5
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I have gtworx and love them. I have the yellow performance springs. They are stiff. If you are trying to get away from stiff you may not want the yellow
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigvern777 View Post
I have gtworx and love them. I have the yellow performance springs. They are stiff. If you are trying to get away from stiff you may not want the yellow
Still 25% softer than my current setup! How is the rebound over sharp bumps?
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:11 PM   #7
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my 2 cents, if you are complaining about the ride of coilovers, maybe you should keep it stock and change them out when you autocross or track day to the cuscos. have you tried to adjust the cuscos to thier softest setting?
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Old 05-19-2017, 10:27 PM   #8
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Not complaining about coilovers in general - complaining about the Cusco Zero 2Es, specifically. Definitely don't have the time or inclination to swap suspension for track days.

IMO Cuscos don't have enough rebound damping for the spring rate at their softest setting. The ride is actually worse.
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IllN View Post
Not complaining about coilovers in general - complaining about the Cusco Zero 2Es, specifically. Definitely don't have the time or inclination to swap suspension for track days.

IMO Cuscos don't have enough rebound damping for the spring rate at their softest setting. The ride is actually worse.
So maybe softer springs. Talk to deal and ask if I what he thinks
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Old 05-20-2017, 03:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
So maybe softer springs. Talk to deal and ask if I what he thinks
springs arent going to help crappy valving and not all coilovers are the same. like i said before, i had ohlins with 600 lb/in springs and they rode better than stock. shock valving is 90% of what controls ride quality.
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Old 05-20-2017, 04:56 PM   #11
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True but short of buying a set or even the feals max travel. Or you can get a set of bilstein pss9 or 10 s
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Old 05-21-2017, 07:01 AM   #12
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So it's not just about springs but valving too. While most manufacturers provide spring rates, it's more difficult to get a graph from a shock dyno done at different settings to understand valving for the dampers.

I think it's pretty universally understood that these cars work best with F/R spring rates which are almost the same, maybe a bit firmer in the rear. Even Subaru has rates that are 91% the same F/R. They go slightly firmer in front to induce a bit of understeer which is safer for the average driver.

Most aftermarket Coilovers aren't giving you the right spring ratios F/R, for some reason it's generally way more biased towards the front.

Ohlins is around 22-23% stiffer in the front
GTWorx w/Yellows should give close to an optimal setup
PSS10 (B16s) out of the box is also heavily front biased (can't remember by how much but it was a lot). More problematic, the rear springs max out at 280 lbs/in.
Cusco seems to have the right rates dialed in, but sounds like the valving isn't comfortable.

Nearly every manufacturer I looked at had the "wrong" rates. I would suggest the following:

-Going with the GTWorx dampers + yellows
-Call Cygnus and get something made from AST or Fortune with the rates you want
-Buy something off the shelf from Racecomp since they've tested/modified everything to work well with our cars. Valving will be spot on and in most cases you can customize the rate when you talk to them.
-Buy the Ohlins, either swap the springs, or get a set of stiffer rear springs to match.

The PSS10/B16 has the *right* spring rates in Japan. The US version for some unknown reason has softer rates than stock. I have no idea what Bilstein was thinking releasing pricey coilovers with such weird rates. If I had to guess, Bilstein, KW, et al are basing their rates on some calculation instead of the stock ratios or other testing. Keep in mine they produce so many different applications for products such as the B16/PSS10 they're unlikely to do heavy testing in EACH car. Racecomp basically has KW/Bilstein stuff with what I believe is different valving and the right spring rates. Cygnus can get stuff made however you want.

Last edited by intence01; 05-21-2017 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:30 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IllN View Post
I know this is an unusual comparison so bear with me.

I have a GR STi hatch that sees less than 6k miles/year - mix of city, track days, and 3hr - 10hr trips. No commuting tho . The car is currently on Cusco Zero 2Rs w/ electronic adjustment + whiteline sways.

My wife & I can't live w/ the ride any longer. It's great for track days, and that's about it. The Cuscos are just harsh on the street.

Understanding that that spring rates on the Ohlins are similar @ 500/400 vs. 440/440 for the cuscos, I'm wondering if the DFV & general quality will make these a good option? I can't find very many reviews of the R&Ts vs others on the street. My only other experience with Ohlins is in a GD time attack car & sportbikes. I know they're awesome on the track...

GTWORX seems to be more of a known qty and the go-to recommendation.

Does anyone have experience with both the R&Ts & the GTWORX/RCE struts? TIA
Myles here has run both on his own personal GR in the past. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Ohlins are obviously awesome, and we're pretty happy with our own stuff too. We have refined the valving of the Bilsteins slightly from the initial sets, so they ride pretty well now with RCE Yellows. It's an easy button solution that lasts a long time. With some larger swaybars it's a great option on the track. If you're running sticky r-comp tires you might prefer the firmer spring rates of the Ohlins. Not a huge fan of the front biased spring rates of the Ohlins but that can either be worked around or we just swap out the springs. The valving has good range and a solid adjuster.

Give us a call if you'd like to chat with Myles, or I can try to get him to jump on here.

- Andrew
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Old 05-22-2017, 11:15 AM   #14
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If your interested in the Ohlins R&T but not happy with the spring rates, there are places that will re-valve them at no extra cost if purchased thru them... If that is a option your looking to do.
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Old 05-29-2017, 02:29 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceComp Engineering View Post
Myles here has run both on his own personal GR in the past. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. Ohlins are obviously awesome, and we're pretty happy with our own stuff too. We have refined the valving of the Bilsteins slightly from the initial sets, so they ride pretty well now with RCE Yellows. It's an easy button solution that lasts a long time. With some larger swaybars it's a great option on the track. If you're running sticky r-comp tires you might prefer the firmer spring rates of the Ohlins. Not a huge fan of the front biased spring rates of the Ohlins but that can either be worked around or we just swap out the springs. The valving has good range and a solid adjuster.



Give us a call if you'd like to chat with Myles, or I can try to get him to jump on here.



- Andrew


I ordered a set of your GTworx dampers today from rallysportdirect to compliment RCE black springs recently installed. Do I need to confirm my set will have the revised valving? TIA
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:07 PM   #16
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From a technical view the Ohlins DFV damper is far superior to the Bilstein B6 damper.
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:32 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lukethedork View Post
From a technical view the Ohlins DFV damper is far superior to the Bilstein B6 damper.
Could you please elaborate on this? I legitimately don't know enough about dampers to understand why this would be the case.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:21 PM   #18
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Another option might be the new gtworx bilstein coilovers. not adjustable damping, but less expensive than the ohlins and better balanced spring rates.
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Promit View Post
Could you please elaborate on this? I legitimately don't know enough about dampers to understand why this would be the case.
https://www.ohlins.com/products/auto...al-flow-valve/
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:17 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EightTenths View Post
I ordered a set of your GTworx dampers today from rallysportdirect to compliment RCE black springs recently installed. Do I need to confirm my set will have the revised valving? TIA
Yes that initial batch was from 2010. Very slight revision since 2010.

Mw
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