Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday September 26, 2017
Home Forums WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Newbies & FAQs

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-14-2017, 12:29 AM   #26
monkeyposeur
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 333468
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: SLC, UT
Vehicle:
1993 SS
03 WRB GD 205/22T 20G-XT

Default

Catless is awesome. You get some cool after firing and pops. And as long as you are moving there is no smell.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
monkeyposeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 09-14-2017, 04:05 PM   #27
YNRY
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 407737
Join Date: Dec 2014
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: B&A, MD
Vehicle:
2006 STi
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
You're the one saying that if he looks at his Dyno Plot, that he can determine where he hit peak boost on that run and therefore not go WOT before that. Because if he does got WOT he might overboost. You also said going WOT before that rpm in 3rd is lugging the engine, you have no idea what that rpm is so no idea if he's lugging the engine.

This makes zero sense.

Again, how was my first response mostly wrong.
Stock turbo, regular ol' stage 2 '13 wrx? Yeah I think I have a pretty good idea where in the RPM range he'll be hitting boost.

This is getting annoying. Are you trolling me? You really don't know that you shouldn't be flooring it in high gear when below ~3k RPM?

With regards to your first post; "Boost creep can NOT be tuned out, it is a mechanical issue from running a catless exhaust. You can see in the picture below that the boost line with the catless exhaust rises uncontrollably after 5000rpm. This boost creep is typically only seen with a catless exhaust + intakes in temperatures below 40*."

This is correct for our application, but it's so context-dependent and oversimplified. I just think it's a rather careless thing to say. Everyone and their grandma has a stage 2 wrx or sti and how often does actual boost creep come up? You need to be pushing 130+ mph before creep occurs--and the mechanical failure is in the ****ty wastegate/turbine housing/engine displacement ratios of the models before 2009 (I think that's when they beefed up the wastegate). I just have an issue with the sentence "catless exhausts cause boostcreep." It's incorrect.

Is this where you found that quote? https://www.phatbottituning.com/2015-wrx-faq.html

This is a different car altogether. And what is this Excel graph where the boost oscillates 2 psi every 50 RPM? No offense to P but damn that looks stupid.
YNRY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 04:24 PM   #28
YNRY
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 407737
Join Date: Dec 2014
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: B&A, MD
Vehicle:
2006 STi
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YungBoba View Post
You should have specified that you meant that RPM in your other post, I was confused as to what you meant also. The way you worded it made it seem like you were saying not to go WOT until AFTER you hit peak boost (i.e. once your boost gauge reads 20psi or whatever it's tuned to) which is literally impossible since the throttle position controls how much you're boosting.
Yep my mistake. Just meaning to say OP should wait until he's in the RPM where his engine has proper airflow and torque to start adding significant throttle.
YNRY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 04:28 PM   #29
GlarryHoodDIT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 460907
Join Date: Jan 2017
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
2016 WRX
Phatron Tuned

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
Stock turbo, regular ol' stage 2 '13 wrx? Yeah I think I have a pretty good idea where in the RPM range he'll be hitting boost.

This is getting annoying. Are you trolling me? You really don't know that you shouldn't be flooring it in high gear when below ~3k RPM?
That's not what you said. You said he shouldn't WOT before peak boost in any gear above third. What you said makes no sense, still. 2015+ it's not a great idea to WOT under 3K because the OEM rods don't withstand for a while, not much of an issue on the EJ255. You can backtrack all you want, I'm using your quotes to understand you arguments, my bad.

Quote:
With regards to your first post; "Boost creep can NOT be tuned out, it is a mechanical issue from running a catless exhaust. You can see in the picture below that the boost line with the catless exhaust rises uncontrollably after 5000rpm. This boost creep is typically only seen with a catless exhaust + intakes in temperatures below 40*."

This is correct for our application, but it's so context-dependent and oversimplified. I just think it's a rather careless thing to say. Everyone and their grandma has a stage 2 wrx or sti and how often does actual boost creep come up? You need to be pushing 130+ mph before creep occurs--and the mechanical failure is in the ****ty wastegate/turbine housing/engine displacement ratios of the models before 2009 (I think that's when they beefed up the wastegate). I just have an issue with the sentence "catless exhausts cause boostcreep." It's incorrect.

Is this where you found that quote? https://www.phatbottituning.com/2015-wrx-faq.html

This is a different car altogether. And what is this Excel graph where the boost oscillates 2 psi every 50 RPM? No offense to P but damn that looks stupid.
I never said all catless exhausts suffer from BC, far from it, I have a catless exhaust... I just explained what boost creep is when it happens, that's all. No part of my explanation was wrong or "mostly wrong." You can infer whatever the hell you want, but it doesn't mean I said it.

Hilarious that you start by saying "this is the correct application for our car" then end by saying "this is a different car altogether."

Like I said, you totally know more then the respected tuner you just insulted.
GlarryHoodDIT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 07:34 PM   #30
YNRY
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 407737
Join Date: Dec 2014
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: B&A, MD
Vehicle:
2006 STi
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
That's not what you said. You said he shouldn't WOT before peak boost in any gear above third. What you said makes no sense, still. 2015+ it's not a great idea to WOT under 3K because the OEM rods don't withstand for a while, not much of an issue on the EJ255. You can backtrack all you want, I'm using your quotes to understand you arguments, my bad.


I never said all catless exhausts suffer from BC, far from it, I have a catless exhaust... I just explained what boost creep is when it happens, that's all. No part of my explanation was wrong or "mostly wrong." You can infer whatever the hell you want, but it doesn't mean I said it.

Hilarious that you start by saying "this is the correct application for our car" then end by saying "this is a different car altogether."

Like I said, you totally know more then the respected tuner you just insulted.
1. Yep. Should have been more specific. I meant that OP shouldn't WOT in high gear before reaching the right RPM.

2. "[Boost creep] is a mechanical issue from running a catless exhaust." I have a problem with this sentence. I don't feel like explaining why again.

3. I never insulted anyone.

4. https://www.7cups.com/ You need this. Bye
YNRY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 07:35 PM   #31
teewrxx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 455777
Join Date: Oct 2016
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2013 WRX Hatch
Plasma Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredrik94087 View Post
didnt mean to throw a wrench in the discussion.

I have read about boost creep from only those who have gone catless, and I have seen it on my own catted jpipe when running wastegate only (zero additional boost). Otherwise, my catted is fine and holds boost.

Yes, any tuner may tune out some boost at some rpm range to negate the issue if one exists. Is it possibly better to run catted and not have that potential issue nor the foul smell?

Here's a link I found with google search.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=1180628
This is interesting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
Catless is awesome. You get some cool after firing and pops. And as long as you are moving there is no smell.
Lmao.


Well do you guys think this is definitely something Clark will take note of? But anyways it definitely sounds like there is no way to prevent boost creep unless keeping the stock Cats or mufflers? Or is this a wastegate problem?

Do those who run catless just watch your boost gauge and make sure you're staying at or under the boost you're tuned for?

I've also found this but it was made in 2004.
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...477715&page=20
teewrxx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 07:46 PM   #32
GlarryHoodDIT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 460907
Join Date: Jan 2017
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
2016 WRX
Phatron Tuned

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
1. Yep. Should have been more specific. I meant that OP shouldn't WOT in high gear before reaching the right RPM.

2. "[Boost creep] is a mechanical issue from running a catless exhaust." I have a problem with this sentence. I don't feel like explaining why again.

3. I never insulted anyone.

4. https://www.7cups.com/ You need this. Bye
1. Still doesn't make sense, if your car overboosts when you do this find a new tune don't blame the car. Before you soil your panties and say I didn't say that, look at post 20 - you definitely did.

2. You can have whatever problems you want. It's what causes Bc, if not then carted setups would experience this, they dont. You on the other hand said "It's not caused by going catless," which is for all intents and purposes wrong.

3. "No offense to P but damn that looks stupid"

4. Not familiar, are you a regular patient?

5. I'm done arguing with an illiterate, please stop spreading misinformation.

Last edited by GlarryHoodDIT; 09-14-2017 at 09:25 PM.
GlarryHoodDIT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 11:46 PM   #33
monkeyposeur
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 333468
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: SLC, UT
Vehicle:
1993 SS
03 WRB GD 205/22T 20G-XT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teewrxx View Post
Do those who run catless just watch your boost gauge and make sure you're staying at or under the boost you're tuned for?
I've never experienced boost creep as far as I know. My logs have never shown any either. Phatron tuned my car. For what it's worth it's an 03 wrx w/20g-xt, all catless. We did have to dial the boost back a bit during tuning because of some knock most likely due to the 91 octane that I am forced to use. I don't really pay much attention to my boost gauge these days since everything seems to be working just fine.
monkeyposeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 11:59 PM   #34
GlarryHoodDIT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 460907
Join Date: Jan 2017
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado
Vehicle:
2016 WRX
Phatron Tuned

Default

Boost creep doesn't become an issue at elevation, which I'm assuming you're at in SLC...
GlarryHoodDIT is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 03:06 AM   #35
teewrxx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 455777
Join Date: Oct 2016
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2013 WRX Hatch
Plasma Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyposeur View Post
I've never experienced boost creep as far as I know. My logs have never shown any either. Phatron tuned my car. For what it's worth it's an 03 wrx w/20g-xt, all catless. We did have to dial the boost back a bit during tuning because of some knock most likely due to the 91 octane that I am forced to use. I don't really pay much attention to my boost gauge these days since everything seems to be working just fine.
Oooo interesting. Unfortunately, I'll be getting clarks protune online and won't be on a dyno, I'm hoping he can do the same?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
Boost creep doesn't become an issue at elevation, which I'm assuming you're at in SLC...
Ahh, so only a problem at lower elevations?
teewrxx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 09:10 AM   #36
YNRY
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 407737
Join Date: Dec 2014
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: B&A, MD
Vehicle:
2006 STi
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teewrxx View Post
Oooo interesting. Unfortunately, I'll be getting clarks protune online and won't be on a dyno, I'm hoping he can do the same?



Ahh, so only a problem at lower elevations?
Yeah Clark will be able to make whatever adjustments he needs to. I had an etune done by iap a few years ago. They just needed me to gather some data on the accessport and email it in. They were done in 3 days. And I forget, are you buying an ebcs as well?

Creep would definitely be more of a concern at lower elevations since the air is more dense... honestly dude don't worry about it unless you plan on taking the car over 130mph. If you are going to do that, get an ewg.
YNRY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 01:12 PM   #37
teewrxx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 455777
Join Date: Oct 2016
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2013 WRX Hatch
Plasma Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
Yeah Clark will be able to make whatever adjustments he needs to. I had an etune done by iap a few years ago. They just needed me to gather some data on the accessport and email it in. They were done in 3 days. And I forget, are you buying an ebcs as well?

Creep would definitely be more of a concern at lower elevations since the air is more dense... honestly dude don't worry about it unless you plan on taking the car over 130mph. If you are going to do that, get an ewg.
I'll ask Clark about the EBCS, but he made it clear that all I needed was the pump and the spark plugs.
I didn't think to plan to go over 130, but if I ever decide to, would the EWG and the EXCBS (and a retune) be it?

I appreciate everyone's help in this I really do.
teewrxx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 02:00 PM   #38
YNRY
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 407737
Join Date: Dec 2014
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: B&A, MD
Vehicle:
2006 STi
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teewrxx View Post
I'll ask Clark about the EBCS, but he made it clear that all I needed was the pump and the spark plugs.
I didn't think to plan to go over 130, but if I ever decide to, would the EWG and the EXCBS (and a retune) be it?

I appreciate everyone's help in this I really do.
The ebcs is $100. Ask Clark about it (especially if you're paranoid now about boost-related issues).

130 is a lot. Like 10 seconds of WOT in 5th gear after redlining 4th. The EWG will require a new BCS and up pipe, so tack on at least $700 for that...
YNRY is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 02:46 PM   #39
monkeyposeur
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 333468
Join Date: Sep 2012
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: SLC, UT
Vehicle:
1993 SS
03 WRB GD 205/22T 20G-XT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by teewrxx View Post
Oooo interesting. Unfortunately, I'll be getting clarks protune online and won't be on a dyno, I'm hoping he can do the same?
Phatron etuned my car, no dyno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
Boost creep doesn't become an issue at elevation, which I'm assuming you're at in SLC...
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah I'm at 4250 ft. If I go down in elevation I'll have to pay attention.
monkeyposeur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 03:59 PM   #40
teewrxx
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 455777
Join Date: Oct 2016
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Vehicle:
2013 WRX Hatch
Plasma Blue Pearl

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by YNRY View Post
The ebcs is $100. Ask Clark about it (especially if you're paranoid now about boost-related issues).

130 is a lot. Like 10 seconds of WOT in 5th gear after redlining 4th. The EWG will require a new BCS and up pipe, so tack on at least $700 for that...
Ok yeah I don't plan on going anywhere past 130 ahaha. I'm not trying to break any land speed records.
teewrxx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2017, 08:29 PM   #41
Cobradaddy
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 458208
Join Date: Nov 2016
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlarryHoodDIT View Post
Maybe not newer years, but older models it's not a problem
Hence "Usually"
Cobradaddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2017, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.