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Old 01-10-2020, 07:51 PM   #1
Straight6
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Default Oil consumption increase with muffler deletes ?

Anyone else notice an increase in oil consumption after installing muffler deletes ? I noticed about 1 quart down after about 3,500 miles of driving with muffler deletes. The only other thing I did was switch from Subaru OEM oil to M1 ESP...I have never noticed any oil burn in the past and I don't see leaks whatsoever. M1 ESP had about 3.5K miles and 9 months of pretty heavy use. It drained just over 4 quarts during the last oil change, so about 1 quart disappeared. Normal ? I switched back to OEM mufflers and changed to Motul to see if it makes any difference. Thanks.
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:13 PM   #2
Rexy18
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I use Mobil 1 European FS 0W40 and have no oil consumption but i also have mufflers. If i had to take a guess id think it has more to do w oil than muffler deletes. Which Motul are you using now? And how many miles on the car?
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:40 PM   #3
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When I tried M1 esp (the only time) I noticed that it used around 200 ml in approx 3,000 km. So I switched back to what I was using and all is good now.

Im not saying that this is your problem.. as many use M1 esp without any reported problems.

Why not change one of the variables first and see which is the problem? Say change the oil back first and see if it stops using it over the same interval.
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:25 AM   #4
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About 30K miles. I switched to Motul 8100X 5W-30 about 500 miles ago, no visible consumption so far. Also, to clarify a little I got rid of the muffler deletes before my last oil change because I just didn't like the sound. I happened to notice oil consumption during the time I had them on so I thought they are maybe related but at the same time I also just switched to M1 ESP.

Few other things:

-The engine seems to run a lot quieter with Motul
-There is a weird exhaust smell I noticed a while ago on cold starts when the car has been sitting for few days but it doesn't really smell like oil
-I never observed any blue smoke on start up or at WOT. I did however once noticed blue smoke when I accidentally stepped on the throttle while the car was in neutral and revved it up. I couldn't replicate that since and at that time it was a bit overfilled with oil.
-During the last change I drained about 4.2 L while the car was on the front ramps. There was a little oil left in the drain pan (maybe .2 L or so) and a little bit in the old oil filter. I am not sure if everything drains out since it is a bit of an angle only with the front ramps but I assuming most of the oil would.
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Old 01-11-2020, 11:17 AM   #5
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Default Oil consumption increase with muffler deletes ?

Both M1 ESP and X-clean have a higher HTHS and lower Noack volatility than the Subaru oil. Based on those specs, you should burn less with either of those.

If youíre not doing it, you should check your oil level on a regular basis instead of waiting for an oil change.
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Old 01-11-2020, 11:35 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesubie View Post
Both M1 ESP and X-clean have a higher HTHS and lower Noack volatility than the Subaru oil. Based on those specs, you should burn less with either of those.

If you’re not doing it, you should check your oil level on a regular basis instead of waiting for an oil change.
I am aware of the volatility that’s why I thought the deletes could be the culprit but can’t understand how, so I asked. I check the oil level every other fuel fill up. It has always been between half and top hole or over the top hole.

Last edited by Straight6; 01-11-2020 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 01-11-2020, 01:22 PM   #7
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Your exhaust system will have zero effect on oil consumption.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:10 PM   #8
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I run about half M1 ESP 5W-30 and half M1 0W-40 and lose less than half a quart in 5k miles. Muffler deletes should make no difference but I've had them on the car for a year now.
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Old 01-16-2020, 12:36 PM   #9
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Everyone knows that muffler deletes will only affect the windshield washer fluid
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:15 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragman View Post
Everyone knows that muffler deletes will only affect the blinker fluid
fixed that for you
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Old 01-16-2020, 05:46 PM   #11
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Thanks for the advice. I checked both the windshield washer fluid and blinker fluid and they both seem to be fine. You guys are much smart, so racecar. Bet you are both stage 3 plus catless spitting flames with mad stance. Which vape pen is best ?
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Old 01-17-2020, 11:17 AM   #12
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I mean my car is bagged and I'm a clout god in training, but changing out mufflers should not increase oil consumption in any vehicle.
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:04 PM   #13
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Iíd wager M1 is more prone to fuel dilution and thatís making it more likely to burn up/evaporate. I know people like to use it, but my old tuner heavily suggested avoiding M1. Itís all about the motul for me 15 years and counting!
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Old 01-17-2020, 02:48 PM   #14
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M1 ESP is fine, been running it for 3 years and my car does not burn oil (yet).

Motul has always been good oil, but lets not turn it into one of those threads.....
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Old 01-17-2020, 03:27 PM   #15
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I attribute it to M1 ESP and the way the car was driven but I did come across a post here of someone else indicating oil burn with muffler deletes (I cannot find it for the life of me), that is why I mentioned it. I know it makes little to no sense but nevertheless doesn't hurt to ask.
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Old 01-17-2020, 03:30 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littledrummerboy View Post
Iíd wager M1 is more prone to fuel dilution and thatís making it more likely to burn up/evaporate. I know people like to use it, but my old tuner heavily suggested avoiding M1. Itís all about the motul for me 15 years and counting!
Which Motul do you use? X-Clean?
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Old 01-17-2020, 03:35 PM   #17
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BrenTuning sells a kit, might be able to get it cheaper, not sure.

https://brentuning.com/product/15-su...il-change-kit/
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Old 01-17-2020, 04:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gn4rwhals View Post
M1 ESP is fine, been running it for 3 years and my car does not burn oil (yet).

Motul has always been good oil, but lets not turn it into one of those threads.....
Its not to turn it into one of those threads, but the guy is losing more oil than what is expected after switching to M1. So, Iím passing on my experience from my tuner and what Iíve used successfully ó thatís all. I mean itís definitely not because of a muffler delete, and otherwise his car is running fine so...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sluflyer06 View Post
Which Motul do you use? X-Clean?
X-Clean EFE 5w30 in winter
X-Cess 5w40 late spring/summer/early fall

I switch to 5w40 since itís generally hotter in those months, and thatís when auto-x and track happen ó the extra protection is warranted. I canít comment on 5w40 in the FA20 though.
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Old 01-17-2020, 04:47 PM   #19
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Quote:
I can’t comment on 5w40 in the FA20 though.
I can. Been running nothing but Mobil 1 European FS 0w40 since first oil change at 1500k when going fbo stg2. Now fbo stg2 on e50 going strong for 18k miles. Oil changes every 5k. No oil consumption on the stick or measured.

Paying those prices for Motul one is doing themselves a disservice and should be using Amsoil SS 5w30. I would but i prefer 40w plus i get what i feel is equivalent oil for less than half the price.

I would not recommend any other Mobil 1 oil for DIT engines but there is a great Quaker one for those into 5w30, way better than the French stuff and 20$/5qts at Walmart.

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Old 01-18-2020, 01:04 AM   #20
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Granted the QS is cheaper but itís not way better than Motul X-Clean EFE. Iíve seen oil analyses of that Motul after 3k miles of use, and fresh QSUD. Motulís viscosity used is virtually the same as QS fresh. QS would definitely have a much lower viscosity after the same use. Anti-wear additive (molybdenum, phosphorus, zinc) levels are higher in Motul as well.

Iím sure people can get by just fine with other oils too as long as it meets the cert reqs subaru outlines. But there are important differences between brands. Personally, Iíd pay more for better protection, and itís not a disservice for a car Iím planning on keeping as long as I can.
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Old 01-18-2020, 08:14 AM   #21
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I get the 5L jug Motul for 40 bucks on Amazon. It seems like tons of Subaru performance/service shops like to use it. IIRC I paid about 100 bucks for a case of M1 ESP. My observation so far is that there is an overall decrease in engine noise at idle and chain noise on deceleration when in gear. When I first got the ESP I noticed that the chain was a bit louder on decel at low speeds (almost like a very faint rattle). This was the case for about 7-8K miles on 2 oil changes with it. I never noticed it before while using OEM oil and it is gone now. I have zero scientific data to back this up and I am not trying to start a oil debate as I have been using M1 in my BMW for a long time with no issues and will continue to use it in my other cars.
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Old 01-18-2020, 09:26 AM   #22
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You believe you’re paying more for better protection. Again, mobil 1 European FS and QSUD Dexos 2 are both designed for DIT engines, they tested bettet from what ive seen and they cost 50% of Motul which is equivalent to a generic Mobil 1 or Quaker synthetic oils, like Mobil 1 ESP mentioned. Basically nothing special, just another synthetic.

Any modern synthetic should work really. But from what ive read/seen as far as wear protection measured in shear psi, Motul x-clean (without efe designation) is far behind. LiquiMoly is slightly better but Amsoil, QSUD and FS are among top performers (within 5% of each other while Motul is 30-35% less).

There is an exceptional biodegradable and vegetable base oil by Renewable Lubricants too. Exceptional because it maintians same protection to 275F while Amsoil/qsud/fs lose about 6/13/13% respectively at 275F. Didnt find any Motul testing data at 275F but other oils provide better protection than it anyway.

If i were to spend my money on something (other than FS) itd be Amsoil SS. I dont like that its 30w only.

Last edited by Rexy18; 01-18-2020 at 10:56 AM.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:44 AM   #23
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I tried m1 for my first oil change (1,500 miles) and she didnít like it at all. It idled like crap and the valve train was a lot more audible. Iíve since tried Pennzoil Platinum 5w30, Rotella t6 5w40, Amsoil 5w30 Signature Series, and Amsoil 5w40 European formula. My car seems to run best on the euro formula.
I didnít burn any oil for the first 7k miles. Iím at 10k now and lose a little less than a half quart every 3-5k miles. Has me slightly worried but I keep reading that itís normal so weíll see.

2019 Wrx 2.0 Fa20Dit
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:41 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IWrxAlot View Post
I tried m1 for my first oil change (1,500 miles) and she didnít like it at all. It idled like crap and the valve train was a lot more audible. Iíve since tried Pennzoil Platinum 5w30, Rotella t6 5w40, Amsoil 5w30 Signature Series, and Amsoil 5w40 European formula. My car seems to run best on the euro formula.
I didnít burn any oil for the first 7k miles. Iím at 10k now and lose a little less than a half quart every 3-5k miles. Has me slightly worried but I keep reading that itís normal so weíll see.

2019 Wrx 2.0 Fa20Dit
Thanks for chiming in. I knew I wasn't losing my mind when I immediately noticed an increased engine noise when I switched to M1 ESP.
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Old 01-24-2020, 11:40 AM   #25
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He said he used M1 without specifying the ESP formulation. Not all M1 oils are same. His car responded “best” to European Amsoil formula. I use M1 European FS and not any other M1 oil. This is as far as oil is concerned.

I suggest you try to use oil that’s specifically formulated for dit engines. Ive already referenced a few. ESP isnt one of them.

Fs: https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-fs
ESP: https://mobiloil.com/en/motor-oils/mobil-1/mobil-1-esp

Compare and see for yourself the differences. Not ALL M1 oil is same.. hence different formulations. You are using “improper” oil and imo inferior oil too. Try Fs or Quaker SUD i linked or try a more expensive Amsoil SS, or Renewable Lubricants Inc turbo formulation would be my choice. But at twice the cost of FS i stick to my FS for now. I am about to do a 20k oil service and will check but so far no oil is lost during previous changes.
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