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Old 01-21-2020, 09:16 PM   #1
pazzoduc
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Default Yet ANOTHER brake pad thread!

Several questions. Been doing research.

Has pad technology changed in the past few years? Most threads I can find are from at least 2015 or earlier.

Looking at choosing pads that I can safely drive back and forth to HPDE days. Also would be just simply awesome if the same pads worked impossibly good for autocross too. Yeah I know, one can dream right?

General consensus of the threads I can find on the HPDE topic seem to agree on Hawk pads. Generally DTC60's for HPDE track use. Is there something better nowadays? Other brands not so mainstream that offer wider performance range?

Considering options to make the pad temp range more flexible such as cooling ducts from the fog lights for track use with quick attach/release covers to block air flow for street/autocross use?

No, I do not generally daily the car.

Thanks guys.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:50 AM   #2
NSFW
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I'm a big fan of Carbotech's street pads, so I use their track pads in my C5. I'm too lazy to swap pads every track day so I drove to/from the track with their track pads and it was fine. They squeal a lot, and I'm sure they wear rotors faster than street pads, but I barely drove it other than track days so I don't lose sleep over that.

The car had Hawk's street pads when I bought it, and I thought they were way too touchy / grabby, and I read that their track pads are similar. Some people call that "high initial bite" like it's a good thing, but to me it just feels twitchy.

In theory you're supposed to use street and track pads from the same manufacturer so that the transfer layer remains consistent when you switch pads. In practice I don't know how much that matters. I've talked with a couple of people who alternate say it's no big deal.

I put brake ducts in my C5 and then saw some interesting posts from different shops in different Facebook race/lapping groups (Corvette and Mustang) saying that brake ducts are generally less effective than scoops mounted to the suspension arms. Apparently you need 4" ducts to not suck? Not sure what to think but I want to try the scoop approach next summer. All the cool kids are doing it now, and duct/tire interference is annoying in parking lots.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:46 PM   #3
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Brake pad recommendations are like Yelp, just for Pads

What tires are you using?

Which caliper and what rotors?
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:13 PM   #4
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There really isn't a pad out there I'd suggest for both. There are pads that can do both, but tend to be hard on rotors until they're warmed up. The pads that work well at autox (aren't grabby, smooth release, good modulation) generally also don't go much above 900 degrees, and if you're tracking at legit tracks with a good driver you'll exceed that by lap 5-6 on average (assuming some traffic).

That being said, G-LOC is pretty good. I run their R10's on my Miata for track days, then swap in cheap pads for autox/driving around. Honestly, that's what I'd recommend here too, just a cheap set of pads off Rock Auto for autox and a good set of R14/12's for the C5. If you're truly too lazy, then just leave the R pads on and deal with increased rotor wear.

Last edited by subydude; 01-22-2020 at 02:18 PM.
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:23 PM   #5
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Good questions and info so far.

Tire choice affects brake pad choice to some degree, less aggressive pads for less aggressive tires. A good brake pad vendor will ask you what tires, etc. Ken at KNS brakes knows Subaru brake solutions very well, so he would be a great resource.

Scoops and ducts do work when done right, and eventually not a bad idea, but start with good pads and fluid, get to the track, and see what the limiting factors are before throwing money at solutions you may or may not need for years. At some point you will start driving hard enough to max out the performance of whatever particular hardware, which will then be a good time to look at things like duct options. Maybe you will be driving hard enough to need ducts after 2 track days, maybe 2 track seasons, hard to say.

I'm not super familiar with pad options for Subarus, but I've had lot of experience with Carbotech and G-Loc pads over the last 10 years or so in my 'other' track car.
I drive the car all the time on the street as well as to every track day, some hours away. All but the most aggressive pads from either should work well enough on the street "dead cold" panic stopping, or moderate autocross temps as well as be VERY rotor friendly, even when cold. Other brand pads I've heard can be very hard on rotors, especially when operating below their track temp range.
I started with XP8/R8 compounds up front, and eventually got to driving hard enough to get out of their temp range, and worked my way up to G-Loc R16 currently I believe. Still work great on the street.

I know there are some popular Hawk DTC pad compounds, and there is a Raybestos compound that works VERY well for longevity on street tire shod endurance cars, but I think they are a little tougher on rotors, and not available for my platform, so I have no direct experience.

Hit up Ken at KNS and see what he thinks may be a good pad!
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:10 PM   #6
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KOS:

2006 WRX with 2007 STI full swap
Stock Brembos
Stock rotors or other quality stock style "Better" not cheapo rotors. Not sure on exact yet, but nuttin fancy.
18x8.5 rims
200TW tires. Likely Federal 595RS-RR or some other 200TW.
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Old 01-22-2020, 05:34 PM   #7
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I prefer stock-ish blanks i.e. regular rotors for a cost vs. effectiveness/durability standpoint.
Typically Centric premium or Napa equivalent for my platform. Most rotors will heat check/crack wayyyyy before they start getting much thinner in my experience.
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:09 PM   #8
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Make it simple on yourself, just call/email KNS and ask what they recommend. They'll ask you a few questions then make a recommendation. They were even able to custom order a Carbotech pad that fits the rear calipers on an XT6 (running XT6 5x100 parts on my 80's Subaru).
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Old 01-22-2020, 06:50 PM   #9
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Carbotech and G-Loc will put their friction material on almost any backing plate in existence.
Danny at G-Loc even made me custom backing plates that are both thicker than stock and a better steel alloy to resist warping with my archaic single piston front calipers..... grass not included
[/url]
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Old 01-23-2020, 07:48 PM   #10
pazzoduc
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Haha, so... you wound up outstanding in the field I'm guessing? Haha.

All good. I was really just searching for info to establish a budget. When I'm ready I'll call Ken.
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Old 01-23-2020, 08:05 PM   #11
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It wouldn't be a track day for me unless I was off mowing the infield at least once, haha. G-locs and Carbotechs in a worthwhile compound are gonna be anywhere between $125-$160 a pair I'm thinking depending on compound and application. Pretty sure both their websites have a spot where you can put in your car and it'll give you a chart for compounds/costs.
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Old 01-24-2020, 08:53 AM   #12
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If DBA XP650's are enough for you at the track, you can daily them.

http://www.dbausa.com/dbapads/
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Old 01-24-2020, 01:40 PM   #13
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I've always liked Carbotech XP series pads. The GD is super nose heavy, so you can get away with XP8 on the rear, and depending on your tire, possibly an XP10 on the front. Once you get up to speed and are on a good tire, you'll probably switch up to an XP12 in front.
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Old 01-24-2020, 02:43 PM   #14
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I don't know if they changed the formula, but XP10s have always been super loud for me, with pretty bad cold bite. I'd imagine they'd eat rotors in a hurry too driving around/auto-xing on them.

On a 200 tire, he might be able to get by at a trackday with a more streetable pad, depending on his experience, etc.
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Old 01-27-2020, 02:42 AM   #15
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Yeah, they're not so streetable, but they handle heat very well. I wouldn't use them for auto-x, just track days. But if he's targeting 2x track days a month, I'd say he needs more than a street pad.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:07 PM   #16
pazzoduc
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All good guys. Thanks for the continued responses. Starting out I'm hoping tires will be the limiting factor and I can eventually switch to used race takeoff's. In the mean time saving $$ on tires while learning and not having to worry so much about brakes will be a good thing. Probly will be looking at swapping pads for the occasional autoX day. Maybe keeping a bedded set of pads and rotors for that would be best, plus they would last probly forever.
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Old 01-27-2020, 11:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pazzoduc View Post
...Looking at choosing pads that I can safely drive back and forth to HPDE days. Also would be just simply awesome if the same pads worked impossibly good for autocross too...Generally DTC60's for HPDE track use...Considering options to make the pad temp range more flexible such as cooling ducts...No, I do not generally daily the car.
This chart explains a lot >>> CHART

There is no all-around-pad. DTC's are the latest (track) technology. DTC60s are for club racing/trackdays. I feel your pain, I hate swapping pads too. But street and track are two very different conditions. I'd rather swap pads than have brake fade.
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Old 02-18-2020, 01:17 PM   #18
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I've driven to/from track events with track pads installed on plenty of occasions. Generally it was just a short trip (swap from street pads to track pads at the hotel, drive 20min or so from hotel to track and back), but on occasion I've driven with track pads on the street for a couple/few hours (if I didn't feel like swapping back to street pads before driving home). Even when they were cold (like, 30F cold) I've never felt like the track pads were lacking in grip - the initial stop has always felt grippier than my street pads. They probably felt grippy because they were eating the rotors at such low temps , but I never drove them on the street long enough to see if that's really the case or not.

As for pad suggestions for the track, the past couple years I've been using a very affordable option - Power Stops cleverly-named Track Day pads. PST1001 would be the STI Brembo pad. I've been using them on my 1st gen CTS-V, with 2nd gen V 6-piston Brembos up front. I'm pretty hard on brakes, and the Power Stops have worked great for me. Previously I've used mostly Hawk DTC70s, plus Carbotechs (XP16s I think?), Carbone-Lorraine RC6s (I think), Raybestos ST43s and ST47s. The Power Stops do the job for a 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of any of those other pads.

Last edited by Patrick Olsen; 02-19-2020 at 03:19 PM.
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Old 02-18-2020, 02:40 PM   #19
mav1c
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I'd really like to try those Power Stop Track Day pads....but they don't make them for the Stoptechs. :-(
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Old 02-20-2020, 04:51 PM   #20
pazzoduc
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Hey Patrick, Thanks for the suggestion. Did some checking around. Looks like a set of discs and pads for all four corners is 350ish shipped. Looks like I'll be giving that a try for sure.
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