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Old 01-22-2020, 01:00 AM   #2051
mhoward1
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if they could compete on price, it certainly would be... although I'd wait to see what VW puts out in terms of an actual gti version of the ID.3... they've already said that the ID.3 is faster than the GTI, but that GTI and R editions are likely coming in the future. Current GTI is faster than the base Model 3, for almost half the price.


The Base 2020 GTI is $29,000 and has a 0-60 listed at 5.9

The Tesla Model 3 Standard Range is $35,00 and a 0-60 listed at 5.6
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:10 AM   #2052
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The Base 2020 GTI is $29,000 and has a 0-60 listed at 5.9

The Tesla Model 3 Standard Range is $35,00 and a 0-60 listed at 5.6
TM3 is an msrp of 40k. Gti's are regularly down in the 25k range. C&D put down 5.7. But it's an ice, so put a piggy back on for a few hundred and that'll put the GTI in the high 4's.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how Tesla tries to get into a cheaper car market.
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Old 01-22-2020, 08:51 AM   #2053
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Model 3 still has the Standard range model at MSRP just under $36k. They really don't want you to buy it, just like the stripped out base models on other cars, but as far as I know you can still get it. You just have to go to a Tesla Store or call them up, you can't order on the website. The main difference between it and the $40k model is a software locked range (which in theory means you can charge to 100% no issue, offsetting the range loss) and no autopilot at all.

You still have access to supercharger network (much faster charging than say a Bolt which is stuck at 50kw), you still get over the air software updates and optional premium connectivity, and you still have plenty of acceleration.
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Old 01-22-2020, 09:32 AM   #2054
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TM3 is an msrp of 40k. Gti's are regularly down in the 25k range. C&D put down 5.7. But it's an ice, so put a piggy back on for a few hundred and that'll put the GTI in the high 4's.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see how Tesla tries to get into a cheaper car market.
Let's put some slicks on the GTI, strip out the interior and bring it to a prepped drag strip and toss a pro driver in it to go with that piggy back you're suggesting, you know to make the comparison as apples to coconuts as possible.

Back to reality: An ID.3 is going to cost more than a GTI; Tesla has to make a car that competes on a performance and price level with the ID.3 (which the base model 3 likely already does), not at the price level of the GTI.

I'm no Juan, but I'm not the other end of the spectrum either.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:37 PM   #2055
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Let's put some slicks on the GTI, strip out the interior and bring it to a prepped drag strip and toss a pro driver in it to go with that piggy back you're suggesting, you know to make the comparison as apples to coconuts as possible.

Back to reality: An ID.3 is going to cost more than a GTI; Tesla has to make a car that competes on a performance and price level with the ID.3 (which the base model 3 likely already does), not at the price level of the GTI.

I'm no Juan, but I'm not the other end of the spectrum either.
Yeah, I get that discussing a piggy back puts us in another realm... or does it? This is an enthusiast forum, no? Many cars on here are modified, yes? One cannot increase the power output of an EV without Tesla providing it, correct? So while comparing the times for modified cars to a stock car is sorta apples to oranges, it's reality for those who otherwise might look at a pretty mundane mod like a piggyback which enables one to access the factor of safety that manufacturers build into their cars... Tesla keeps that locked down, so what you see is what you get.

Base ID.3 is about the price of a mid/high range GTI, from the European pricing. I guess we'll see what happens and what Tesla can do with a cheaper model.
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Old 01-22-2020, 12:51 PM   #2056
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So while comparing the times for modified cars to a stock car is sorta apples to oranges, it's reality for those who otherwise might look at a pretty mundane mod like a piggyback which enables one to access the factor of safety that manufacturers build into their cars... Tesla keeps that locked down, so what you see is what you get.
They've already increased peak power twice in the past year for free (widening the torque curve) and sold an over the air update for the non performance AWD models. And you get to keep the factory warranty. For all we know there will be more power bumps in the future.

1/4 mile trap speeds have increased several mph for the Model 3, especially AWD/Performance trim levels, since it came out.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:01 PM   #2057
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TSLA $590
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:35 PM   #2058
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They've already increased peak power twice in the past year for free (widening the torque curve) and sold an over the air update for the non performance AWD models. And you get to keep the factory warranty. For all we know there will be more power bumps in the future.

1/4 mile trap speeds have increased several mph for the Model 3, especially AWD/Performance trim levels, since it came out.
Bolded text is important. I know exactly what I can do on an ICE. If I want to run 11's with my R, I know what I need to do. Nobody knows what will happen with EV, so it's hard to take it at any more than face value. Yes, you might be able to get more performance, but there's also a chance that they've hit the threshold where they can't do more... that information is not public, and there's no way (right now) with the aftermarket to do it without Tesla providing it.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:44 PM   #2059
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Bolded text is important. I know exactly what I can do on an ICE. If I want to run 11's with my R, I know what I need to do. Nobody knows what will happen with EV, so it's hard to take it at any more than face value. Yes, you might be able to get more performance, but there's also a chance that they've hit the threshold where they can't do more... that information is not public, and there's no way (right now) with the aftermarket to do it without Tesla providing it.
Uhh that's how every new ICE car powertrain technology is too. Nobody knows what the limits of the C8 Corvette are, and the engine is probably the most understood part of that platform out of the box. It hasn't been out very long/not out at all really. Proven enthusiast platforms tend to be built over technology that's been out long enough to get cheap, such as Subarus.1

Nobody knew what the limits of dual clutch transmissions or direct injection were when they came out either. Don't confuse a mature platform with an emerging one. Nobody knew how to mod electronic fuel injection in the early days, and same with direct injection. It's entirely possible that aftermarket mods of Tesla acceleration will eventually become possible/more widespread. It's like the early days of fuel injection when you had to go all out and get a standalone ECU to tune many cars.
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Old 01-22-2020, 01:54 PM   #2060
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:09 PM   #2061
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^ I watched that a few days ago. Did they mention state of charge and software version of the Tesla? There's so much filler in these videos.
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Old 01-22-2020, 02:20 PM   #2062
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^ I watched that a few days ago. Did they mention state of charge and software version of the Tesla? There's so much filler in these videos.
If you take a close look it seems to be at 88% SOC

Some people just don't get it

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Old 01-22-2020, 02:59 PM   #2063
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Uhh that's how every new ICE car powertrain technology is too. Nobody knows what the limits of the C8 Corvette are, and the engine is probably the most understood part of that platform out of the box. It hasn't been out very long/not out at all really. Proven enthusiast platforms tend to be built over technology that's been out long enough to get cheap, such as Subarus.1

Nobody knew what the limits of dual clutch transmissions or direct injection were when they came out either. Don't confuse a mature platform with an emerging one. Nobody knew how to mod electronic fuel injection in the early days, and same with direct injection. It's entirely possible that aftermarket mods of Tesla acceleration will eventually become possible/more widespread. It's like the early days of fuel injection when you had to go all out and get a standalone ECU to tune many cars.
There's no confusion happening here. You're simply discussing something different than I. The limits in an ICE aren't "known", but you can play with them. You can change intake/exhaust and push the limits, with associated risks. With Tesla, you wait for Tesla to decide to increase power. It's just not a tweakable car. You buy it and accept it. If things change, that's great, but not something you can plan on if you want more power. Buy an ICE and you can plan on upgrading if you want more.
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Old 01-22-2020, 03:12 PM   #2064
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There's no confusion happening here. You're simply discussing something different than I. The limits in an ICE aren't "known", but you can play with them. You can change intake/exhaust and push the limits, with associated risks. With Tesla, you wait for Tesla to decide to increase power. It's just not a tweakable car. You buy it and accept it. If things change, that's great, but not something you can plan on if you want more power. Buy an ICE and you can plan on upgrading if you want more.
Thatís not right. There are aftermarket power mods available for Teslas, but like most makers they void the warranty.

There are a few certified non-power mod companies as well that provide noticeable improvements.

You will soon be able to purchase power increases Straight from Tesla much like FMS and AMG.
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:00 PM   #2065
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You could, if you really wanted to, bypass the factory motor and inverter controls on a Tesla, just like you can put an AEM EMS in your Subaru.

You can already purchase power increases straight from Tesla, yes. Ludicrous mode was the first one for S and X, and now the power boost for the LR AWD Model 3, are available over the mobile app or website. If you want to push it harder there is no equivalent of an easily available Cobb AP or opensource tuning as far as I know. That doesn't mean there won't be in the future. In a few years you'll be able to get a tired out P100D for not much money and people will start messing with them more. The long warranties on the battery and drive units discourage doing that on non-salvage cars.
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Old 01-22-2020, 04:16 PM   #2066
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That’s not right. There are aftermarket power mods available for Teslas, but like most makers they void the warranty.

There are a few certified non-power mod companies as well that provide noticeable improvements.

You will soon be able to purchase power increases Straight from Tesla much like FMS and AMG.
I had asked around earlier, as well as searched, and came up empty.

but just found Jason Huges' piggy back approach. I stand corrected.
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Old 01-28-2020, 01:50 PM   #2067
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Earnings report is tomorrow
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:35 PM   #2068
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Old 01-28-2020, 02:44 PM   #2069
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Sales were up in 4Q 2019, and that's a good thing, but certain tax credits/incentives were expiring or being pared back in 2020, so that may have pulled ahead demand.
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Old 01-28-2020, 06:19 PM   #2070
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Earnings report is tomorrow
Iíd assume they exceed street expectations and post another profit if not record profit.
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Old 01-28-2020, 08:31 PM   #2071
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Iíd assume they exceed street expectations and post another profit if not record profit.
Trade possibility?
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Old 01-29-2020, 06:35 PM   #2072
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Urhh... Yeah. We missed this one. 😳
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Old 01-29-2020, 07:01 PM   #2073
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holy crap. I'll probably stay long. bought more at ~$300 and I'm kind of impressed with the potential here.
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Old 01-29-2020, 08:07 PM   #2074
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holy crap. I'll probably stay long. bought more at ~$300 and I'm kind of impressed with the potential here.
Trade strategy.....stay long for 10 years and keep buying

Last edited by juanmedina; 01-29-2020 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:42 AM   #2075
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How to turn off traction control

https://teslaownersonline.com/threads/dyno-mode.15386/

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I discovered this in one of Tesla's EPA filings. To enable, hold down the Tesla T for a few seconds, then at the access code prompt, enter "dynotest", holding down the left turn signal when you click OK.

To turn it off, you have to choose Power Off from the Safety and Security tab.

Seems similar to what some have discovered by sending CAN bus commands with bogus data to fault the traction control system. I think the main difference is that Dyno Mode keeps regen enabled (and it doesn't require a CAN interface dongle).

Here's the description from the EPA filing:

Tesla, Inc. is currently completing the implementation of user interface (UI) features that enable access to our “Dyno Mode” for all users. This feature is required to be enabled to maintain representative driving controls while testing on a chassis dynamometer. Access to Dyno Mode will be introduced at the start of production on October 7th, 2019, and will be deployed to the entire Tesla fleet in version 2019.40 over the month of October 2019.

In order to preserve the proper driving functionality and behavior, Dyno Mode executes the following features:
‐ Disable Stability Control to ensure no false interaction with the dyno.
‐ Disable Traction Control to ensure no false interaction with the dyno.
‐ Disable Active Drive Line Damping to avoid inducing oscillations in the dyno.
‐ Force the torque split to be as it would be under normal straight‐line driving conditions
‐ Disable Brake Disk Wipe

When the Stability Control and Traction Control systems become faulted, as is the case on a dynamometer where driving is detected but movement is not, regenerative braking is disabled so that unintended braking torque does not lead to loss of traction or control on low friction surfaces. Disabling Stability Control and Traction Control prevents those systems from disrupting regenerative braking behavior, maintaining the most representative driving energy consumption.

Dyno Mode can be activated by the user, according to the following steps:
1. Vehicle must be in Park.
2. While holding down left (turn signal) stalk, press and hold the Tesla “T” logo at the top of the screen.
3. Enter the Dyno Mode activation password, “dynotest”.

Dyno Mode can be deactivated by the user by pressing the “Power Off” button within the Safety & Security tab of the UI.

We are targeting completion of this Dyno Mode feature for installation in all new production vehicles by October 7th, 2019. Over the month of October, we will be rolling out this feature to our US fleet, enabling all Tesla vehicles to enter Dyno Mode.
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