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Old 10-20-2019, 12:07 AM   #201
KC
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I HATE the nav. It is still TomTom; but, they took a step back in voice functionality and 2 steps back in map functionality. Or I haven't figured it out yet. I just know I don't like it right now
I really have a hard time understanding why nav is even an option anymore. That tech has come and gone and been surpassed wither better features on our phones and AA/ACP.

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Old 10-21-2019, 04:45 PM   #202
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Sadly, Toyota is behind Subaru in Head/Tech area. I've been looking to see if I want a 4runner but only the 2020 has Android Auto/Car Play. Heck, the 2020 Lexus GX 460 has a ****ty head unit.
You really can't expect anything great out of the 4Runner though, it's a refreshed version of a truck that came out in 2010 which then itself was a marginal redesign on the truck that came out in 2003. Also, they sell them to people who DON'T want tech in their cars. It's kind of the point, living in a bygone era in 2020. The GX and LX which are similarly old vehicles are also pretty outdated compared to modern trucks, but you don't buy them for the technology either.

Look at their "mainstream" products though. The RAV4, Camry, Corolla, etc all have very competitive headunits and technology.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:31 PM   #203
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You really can't expect anything great out of the 4Runner though, it's a refreshed version of a truck that came out in 2010 which then itself was a marginal redesign on the truck that came out in 2003. Also, they sell them to people who DON'T want tech in their cars. It's kind of the point, living in a bygone era in 2020. The GX and LX which are similarly old vehicles are also pretty outdated compared to modern trucks, but you don't buy them for the technology either.

Look at their "mainstream" products though. The RAV4, Camry, Corolla, etc all have very competitive headunits and technology.
You're correct. The only reason I noticed is that I started looking in to 4Runners, since I'm starting to get in to a bit of overlanding and car camping (mainly to go bouldering). And 4Runners/Jeep has the most drawer system available. But I still want the creature comfort of Android Auto, adapted cruise control, etc...

Although, I get it. They still sell a ton of 4runners whether I'm part of it or not.
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Old 10-21-2019, 06:02 PM   #204
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And 4Runners/Jeep has the most drawer system available. But I still want the creature comfort of Android Auto, adapted cruise control, etc...
2020 4 Runners just got Adaptive Cruise and Apple Carplay/Android auto.
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Old 10-22-2019, 01:47 PM   #205
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2020 4 Runners just got Adaptive Cruise and Apple Carplay/Android auto.
Yes they did. I'll see what they have next year for it. Because I'm torn between the Taco and the 4Runner. The Taco has the side/front cameras to help you navigate terrain better. If they put that same thing on the 4Runner next year, I might jump ship.
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Old 10-22-2019, 10:43 PM   #206
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Yes they did. I'll see what they have next year for it. Because I'm torn between the Taco and the 4Runner. The Taco has the side/front cameras to help you navigate terrain better. If they put that same thing on the 4Runner next year, I might jump ship.
Cameras only on the TRD Pro Taco and has Electronic Transfer case.
4Runner has Manual Tranfer case on the TRD Off-Road and PRO

After, owning a '17 TRD Off-road Taco, I'd rather have the 4.0L in the 4Runner over the 3.5L in the Taco again.

The taco you really gotta rev it crawling, and it just doesn't sound great, with or without exhaust.
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Old 10-23-2019, 01:31 PM   #207
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Cameras only on the TRD Pro Taco and has Electronic Transfer case.
4Runner has Manual Tranfer case on the TRD Off-Road and PRO

After, owning a '17 TRD Off-road Taco, I'd rather have the 4.0L in the 4Runner over the 3.5L in the Taco again.

The taco you really gotta rev it crawling, and it just doesn't sound great, with or without exhaust.
Good to know! Thanks!
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Old 11-24-2019, 01:25 PM   #208
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Thumbs down 2020 Subaru Outback loses TOP SAFETY PICK+ rating


The redesigned 2020 Subaru Legacy and Outback each earn safety awards from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety.

The Outback earns a TOP SAFETY PICK award. The award applies to all Outbacks built after October, as well as earlier models equipped with the base headlights instead of curve-adaptive ones.

The Legacy earns a TOP SAFETY PICK+ award when equipped with curve-adaptive headlights.

To qualify for a 2019 TOP SAFETY PICK award, a vehicle must earn good ratings in the driver-side small overlap front, moderate overlap front, side, roof strength and head restraint tests, as well as a good or acceptable rating in the passenger-side small overlap front test. It also needs an advanced or superior rating for front crash prevention and a good or acceptable headlight rating. The TOP SAFETY PICK+ award requires a good passenger-side small overlap rating and a good headlight rating.

Both the Legacy and the Outback earn good ratings in all six of the Institute's crashworthiness evaluations and come standard with Subaru's EyeSight crash avoidance system. Each model earns a superior rating for vehicle-to-vehicle front crash prevention, avoiding collisions in 12 and 25 mph track tests. They have also been evaluated for pedestrian crash prevention, earning a superior rating, though that test isn't part of the 2019 awards criteria.

The 2020 Legacy earns a TOP SAFETY PICK+ award when equipped with curve-adaptive headlights. Its base headlights earn an acceptable rating. That would be sufficient to qualify for an award without the "plus," though only one of the awards is given per model.

While the 2019 Outback earned the higher-tier "plus" award, the 2020 model is limited to a TOP SAFETY PICK due to an acceptable headlight rating. That rating applies to its base headlights as well as its available curve-adaptive LEDs on models built after October 2019. The curve-adaptive lights on earlier models rate marginal.

Additionally, the 2020 Subaru Impreza sedan and wagon were not redesigned for 2020 but have updated headlights. The new headlights earn identical ratings to the 2019 models, meaning the vehicles' 2019 TOP SAFETY PICK+ awards now extend to 2019-20 models equipped with optional front crash prevention and specific headlights.

https://www.iihs.org/news/detail/red...-safety-awards
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Old 11-25-2019, 03:04 PM   #209
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Any thoughts on how the Legacy's headlights are better than the Outback's?
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Old 11-25-2019, 06:01 PM   #210
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Any thoughts on how the Legacy's headlights are better than the Outback's?
Base to base both donít have adaptive headlights you have to get uptrim levels. Same light assembly for both so possibly the ride height , thus the angle Down changes to meet fed requirements.
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:40 PM   #211
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1) Not the first time there's been a difference in rating for Outback and Legacy headlights from IIHS. It's probably a height thing.

2) Not the first time Subaru has missed the + designation out of the gate. 2019 Forester didn't originally get it either. They made some sort of running change to rectify whatever the problem was.
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Old 11-25-2019, 07:59 PM   #212
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Base to base both don’t have adaptive headlights you have to get uptrim levels. Same light assembly for both so possibly the ride height , thus the angle Down changes to meet fed requirements.
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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
1) Not the first time there's been a difference in rating for Outback and Legacy headlights from IIHS. It's probably a height thing.

2) Not the first time Subaru has missed the + designation out of the gate. 2019 Forester didn't originally get it either. They made some sort of running change to rectify whatever the problem was.
Would be interesting to see how the difference is. I would figure the higher car being better. Unless Subaru screwed the pooch and aligned the Outback too low.

I would hope it was that. Seems an easy fix like the Forester.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:01 PM   #213
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Would be interesting to see how the difference is. I would figure the higher car being better. Unless Subaru screwed the pooch and aligned the Outback too low.

I would hope it was that. Seems an easy fix like the Forester.
Only models equipped with SRH (atleast in case of Subaru) get "Good" rating which affects the overall plus rating. For 2020 Outback, glare and curve illumination are the two issues. For 2019 Forester, curve illumination was the issue and it was fixed in Limited and Touring trims.
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Old 11-25-2019, 10:05 PM   #214
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Only models equipped with SRH get "Good" rating which affects the overall plus rating. For 2020 Outback, glare and curve illumination are the two issues. For 2019 Forester, curve illumination was the issue and it was fixed in Limited and Touring trims.
Legacy and Outback get the same headlights on the same trims. I agree it must be the height. Hopefully it's a quick fix like the Forester was. I am sure Subaru has been all over it since they were informed.
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Old 01-20-2020, 04:25 PM   #215
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Old 01-20-2020, 11:59 PM   #216
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His description of how wonky the fake shifts and unpredictable operation of the CVT is exactly what I was apprehensive about when considering trading our '08 STI for the '14 FXT. Luckily, Subaru didn't implement their dumbass fake-shifts until later; I was thrilled to find the HTCVT in our '14 FXT to be smooth and consistent. How he describes the CVT behavior in the OBXT while driving aggressively is exactly why we likely won't be upgrading from our '14 FXT to an OBXT or any other turbo Subie with a CVT.


Serious, if you haven't driven a turbo Subie with a smooth HTCVT, you simply can't know what I'm talking about.

Well, that and the ****ty large touch-screen won't be winning any awards either, apparently.
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:15 AM   #217
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His description of how wonky the fake shifts and unpredictable operation of the CVT is exactly what I was apprehensive about when considering trading our '08 STI for the '14 FXT. Luckily, Subaru didn't implement their dumbass fake-shifts until later; I was thrilled to find the HTCVT in our '14 FXT to be smooth and consistent. How he describes the CVT behavior in the OBXT while driving aggressively is exactly why we likely won't be upgrading from our '14 FXT to an OBXT or any other turbo Subie with a CVT.


Serious, if you haven't driven a turbo Subie with a smooth HTCVT, you simply can't know what I'm talking about.

Well, that and the ****ty large touch-screen won't be winning any awards either, apparently.
My new Ascent has been blessed with the fake shift crap. I grew to really love how smooth my 14 FXT was. The Ascent is different.
It behaves differently depending on how much throttle input you’re giving it.
Low to mid throttle input (80% of driving) the fake shifts don’t really show themselves. Only when you’re mashing the gas hard mid-wot do the fake shifts come out in force and really jerk the car around. It feels like incredibly fast, hard slam-shifts from a DCT or something. It’s not smooth.
Luckily there’s so much freakin torque, so early, with the FA24DIT, that we rarely need to put our foot into the gas.
And, as I’ve said before, there really is a “learning curve” with how the new CVTs/programming behave. To a first-timer, it’s kind of a shocker - it was for me, but I don’t even think about it now - no joke. It feels normal now and 100% predictable.

That said, I cannot wait to feel this same engine mated to a 6MT. It’s a damn beast.

Also, the 2019s recently had a recall to reflash the TCMs with the late-build 2020 tranny map. So, the 19s now behave much smoother, like my late-build 2020 does. If you’ve only driven a 2019 Ascent, it was bad. They got better.

Last edited by Brahmzy; 01-21-2020 at 12:25 AM.
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Old 01-21-2020, 07:15 AM   #218
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He REALLY hates that touchscreen interface. I thought I had accidentally stumbled upon a Pre review.

I feel like the CVT in general has always required a learning curve that most enthusiasts have refused to appreciate. They say it's the worst transmission ever, yet it continues to sell. I never hear complaints from my non-enthusiast friends or family about the CVT in either the 2014 Crosstrek or 2017 Impreza Sport.

I only ever hear complaints about the 2019 6MT Crosstrek that my buddies test drove being way too slow, or, just any Crosstrek being too slow, actually.
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Old 01-21-2020, 08:51 AM   #219
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He REALLY hates that touchscreen interface. I thought I had accidentally stumbled upon a Pre review.

I feel like the CVT in general has always required a learning curve that most enthusiasts have refused to appreciate. They say it's the worst transmission ever, yet it continues to sell. I never hear complaints from my non-enthusiast friends or family about the CVT in either the 2014 Crosstrek or 2017 Impreza Sport.

I only ever hear complaints about the 2019 6MT Crosstrek that my buddies test drove being way too slow, or, just any Crosstrek being too slow, actually.
I was looking into a 2017+ impreza hatch or crosstrek as an "in between" car while I look for something else, but the 9-10 second 0-60 with the 5mt and the fact that you can't get automatic climate control unless you opt for the CVT were deal breakers for me. Also, those buggers are real expensive for what they are on the used market. Clearly there are people that like them. I momentarily considered a 5th gen H6 OB in my desperation, but eventually came to my senses and remembered that I won't touch anything with a CVT; reliability issues and fake shifts are just not where I'm at in my life yet. I also don't want a dog, I'm pretty sure each OB comes with at least one dog, if not two.

I will admit the interiors of the new Outback and Legacy are really nice, and if there was a 6mt option behind the FA24DIT in the Legacy I might be tempted, but thankfully Subaru doesn't do those kinds of quirky things anymore. Now if it had the Aisin unit from the Lexus IS? might be tempted.
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Old 01-21-2020, 11:38 AM   #220
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He REALLY hates that touchscreen interface. I thought I had accidentally stumbled upon a Pre review.
Two posts in just the span of minutes mentioning me. Not a good day with that experiencing death close to home. Most of the time you should leave me out of your bs.
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Old 01-21-2020, 12:19 PM   #221
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Two posts in just the span of minutes mentioning me. Not a good day with that experiencing death close to home. Most of the time you should leave me out of your bs.
Ah. Was wondering why you were quiet. Obviously it was in good fun, as always, plus the points did mirror yours, which I thought you'd appreciate.

My mentions are my way of showing honor, because it means I remember you. Most would like to be remembered, especially if it's not negatively, which my intentions were most definitely not negative. I'm sorry for the recent losses in your family. I'll refrain from any friendly jesting until given further notice.
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Old 01-21-2020, 02:34 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Brahmzy View Post
My new Ascent has been blessed with the fake shift crap. I grew to really love how smooth my 14 FXT was. The Ascent is different.
It behaves differently depending on how much throttle input you’re giving it.
Low to mid throttle input (80% of driving) the fake shifts don’t really show themselves. Only when you’re mashing the gas hard mid-wot do the fake shifts come out in force and really jerk the car around. It feels like incredibly fast, hard slam-shifts from a DCT or something. It’s not smooth.
Luckily there’s so much freakin torque, so early, with the FA24DIT, that we rarely need to put our foot into the gas.
And, as I’ve said before, there really is a “learning curve” with how the new CVTs/programming behave. To a first-timer, it’s kind of a shocker - it was for me, but I don’t even think about it now - no joke. It feels normal now and 100% predictable.

That said, I cannot wait to feel this same engine mated to a 6MT. It’s a damn beast.

Also, the 2019s recently had a recall to reflash the TCMs with the late-build 2020 tranny map. So, the 19s now behave much smoother, like my late-build 2020 does. If you’ve only driven a 2019 Ascent, it was bad. They got better.
Thanks for that! Faith fully restored.

I haven't test-driven an Ascent. I'm glad to hear they've smoothed things out. My wife would daily-drive it, if we choose to upgrade to something bigger, but I drive during all family road-trips. It would be nice to have something with some oomph; however, the hard fake-shifts you describe would annoy the hell out of me. Maybe Subaru will eventually compromise and update future TCM's to simulate 12 shift points! I think I can deal with 300 RPM shifts lol. I'm also glad you mention that they still behave like normal CVT's during less aggressive driving. That would be VERY important to me, as there would be nothing worse than a jerky around-town CVT, considering how smooth both my '14 FXT and '15 Legacy's CVT's behave.

Last edited by gathermewool; 01-21-2020 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 01-21-2020, 03:00 PM   #223
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Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
I was looking into a 2017+ impreza hatch or crosstrek as an "in between" car while I look for something else, but the 9-10 second 0-60 with the 5mt and the fact that you can't get automatic climate control unless you opt for the CVT were deal breakers for me. Also, those buggers are real expensive for what they are on the used market. Clearly there are people that like them. I momentarily considered a 5th gen H6 OB in my desperation, but eventually came to my senses and remembered that I won't touch anything with a CVT; reliability issues and fake shifts are just not where I'm at in my life yet. I also don't want a dog, I'm pretty sure each OB comes with at least one dog, if not two.

I will admit the interiors of the new Outback and Legacy are really nice, and if there was a 6mt option behind the FA24DIT in the Legacy I might be tempted, but thankfully Subaru doesn't do those kinds of quirky things anymore. Now if it had the Aisin unit from the Lexus IS? might be tempted.
I felt the same way about the '17 Impreza Sport MT. I got saddled with my wife's Civic LX after my wife took the FXT when we had kids. After a couple of boring years in it, I was excited enough about how improved and sporty everyone was saying the new Impreza was that I was willing to trade the perfectly fine, yet dull, Civic in after the first test drive. NOPE! It handled well, but was even slower than the Civic! What a total disappointment.

If I was going to settle, I told myself, I was going to do so for something with more practicality and for less money. I ended up finding a rust/blemish-free, low-mileage, three year-old Legacy 2.5i Premium for just under $16k that should hold me over nicely until something I actually want to spend money on comes out. Because it's cheap and slow the fake shifts don't bother me as much as they would on a performance-oriented vehicle. I don't even drive it as aggressively as I do the FXT, so most of the time it shifts as a CVT should, without the fake shift points. This fake shifting nonsense is always why I don't drive the FXT in S# mode unless I'm using the paddles. It's not faster than S-mode, either, so I don't see the point.

My next vehicle very likely will NOT be either of the new XT models, because of the CVT. That's me and me would love an MT Legacy or even an MT turbo Crosstrek. My STI days are possibly over; I've grown accustomed to lower levels of NVH and don't think I can go back there.

All bets are off when it comes to my wife's next car, which will also be our main family hauler and longer-trip vehicle. If our FXT dies I'm not sure if either of us will be satisfied with today's dog-slow Forester offerings. I'll be looking at other makes at that point, but my wife may want to stick with Subaru, in which case we'll be looking hard at the OBXT and Ascent. Hopefully Subaru gets rid of (or more likely refines) the fake shifts to the point that it's not a daily annoyance.
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