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Old 05-19-2017, 01:01 PM   #26
nealric
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Originally Posted by Jack View Post
Have you driven an STi? The feel is much different from any German car. I would strongly recommend getting a limited over a base so you don't completely hate the car within a week of buying it. Limiteds have consistently had better interior fit and finish with less of the "built with tie wraps holding everything on to a Bud beer can" feel that Subaru is famous for. You'll likely upgrade the audio regardless as even a Mazda 3 base setup is about 10 levels better than the best Subaru offers. This is pretty much tradition with Subaru, you give up these things for performance per dollar.
I couldn't tell the difference between the STI base and Limited other than the seats- and I prefer the base seats. I suppose OP can look at both and decide for themselves. The VA generation STIs are miles better in terms of interior quality than Subarus of the past. Won't be as nice as BMW, but IMO BMW interiors have been going downhill quality wise over the last few years.

I also think the limited stereo is nothing special. Better to go aftermarket if you really care about sound.

By the way, I bought an STI as a "family" car (upgrade from a Miata). I haven't felt the need for more space. Don't know why everyone thinks they need to run out and buy an SUV just because they have a kid.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:23 PM   #27
heavyD
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I looked at the Golf R and the insurance rate - my premium will basically double - F that!
Change insurance companies. No reason a Golf R should cost double to insure.
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Old 05-19-2017, 01:32 PM   #28
lqaddict
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Change insurance companies. No reason a Golf R should cost double to insure.
I am afraid I will have to change the zip code to get a better insurance rate
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Old 05-19-2017, 02:36 PM   #29
MaddMax
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Why exactly are you looking at an STI?


I owned a 2012 WRX Limited for 3.5 years and bought a 2016 M235 6MT back in Feb 2016. The WRX had an expensive Bilstein/RCE yellow suspension, some other mild suspension enhancements, and a Stage 1 tune. That WRX can't hold a candle to anything the M235 is capable of except maybe an all out 0-40mph time. Performance, feel, and quality are apples to oranges.

The WRX was incredibly easy to work on, but put both these cars on a lift and you'll see the MASSIVE differences in engineering and robustness. Interior wise, my WRX is an absolute joke comparable to the M235. The current gen WRX/STI interior is a huge improvement. However, I also own a 2015 Outback 3.6R which has the same interior build quality and overall design as the current gen WRX and it pales in comparison to my M235. Sure, the leather in the M235 isn't super supple, but it's still WAY better than the leather offered in the Subaru cars and I guarantee you the seat comfort, support, and adjustablilty will be in the STI is mediocre to the M235's. Most everything on the STI will feel cheaper and less robust. You think the M235 has a lot of plastic? Look again at the STI interior and do the tap test. Everything is cheaper and you're getting what you pay for. Consider that M steering wheel in the M235. It's hard to find something remotely as good as that one at any price.

Then there's the engine. The STI is running the "old" EJ25 motor. This motor is FAR from reliable once modified and even in stock form, way too many 2015+ STI have spun rod bearings. The N55 in your M235 is way more robust and your chances of a catastrophic failure are about nill unless you go really crazy with the N55 mods. Sure, the N55 can have it's issues with sensors and maybe the cooling system, but the motor itself and turbo are quite robust, comparatively speaking.

Out of the box, your M235 (depending on tranny) will do upper 12s to lower 13s at 107-109mph stock. A stock STI will see lower 13s at 102-104mph. Add a typical $200-600 piggyback and maybe a $500-1,000 downpipe to the M235 and you're deep into the mid/lower 12s at 112+mph with no worries about wrecking the motor. Add a $600 tuner and $500-1,000 downpipe to the STI and you're looking at upper 12s at 106-108mph and in constant fear of a rod bearing spinning.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:03 PM   #30
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Why exactly are you looking at an STI?


I owned a 2012 WRX Limited for 3.5 years and bought a 2016 M235 6MT back in Feb 2016. The WRX had an expensive Bilstein/RCE yellow suspension, some other mild suspension enhancements, and a Stage 1 tune. That WRX can't hold a candle to anything the M235 is capable of except maybe an all out 0-40mph time. Performance, feel, and quality are apples to oranges.

The WRX was incredibly easy to work on, but put both these cars on a lift and you'll see the MASSIVE differences in engineering and robustness. Interior wise, my WRX is an absolute joke comparable to the M235. The current gen WRX/STI interior is a huge improvement. However, I also own a 2015 Outback 3.6R which has the same interior build quality and overall design as the current gen WRX and it pales in comparison to my M235. Sure, the leather in the M235 isn't super supple, but it's still WAY better than the leather offered in the Subaru cars and I guarantee you the seat comfort, support, and adjustablilty will be in the STI is mediocre to the M235's. Most everything on the STI will feel cheaper and less robust. You think the M235 has a lot of plastic? Look again at the STI interior and do the tap test. Everything is cheaper and you're getting what you pay for. Consider that M steering wheel in the M235. It's hard to find something remotely as good as that one at any price.

Then there's the engine. The STI is running the "old" EJ25 motor. This motor is FAR from reliable once modified and even in stock form, way too many 2015+ STI have spun rod bearings. The N55 in your M235 is way more robust and your chances of a catastrophic failure are about nill unless you go really crazy with the N55 mods. Sure, the N55 can have it's issues with sensors and maybe the cooling system, but the motor itself and turbo are quite robust, comparatively speaking.

Out of the box, your M235 (depending on tranny) will do upper 12s to lower 13s at 107-109mph stock. A stock STI will see lower 13s at 102-104mph. Add a typical $200-600 piggyback and maybe a $500-1,000 downpipe to the M235 and you're deep into the mid/lower 12s at 112+mph with no worries about wrecking the motor. Add a $600 tuner and $500-1,000 downpipe to the STI and you're looking at upper 12s at 106-108mph and in constant fear of a rod bearing spinning.
Thanks!
I will test/tap drive the STI before I decide to dump my M235i for it.
I guess it's the 3-year itch for the new car that makes me look at what's available and get something different.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:24 PM   #31
MaddMax
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I think you'll be sorely disappointed coming from a M235 to an STI. Like others pointed out, perhaps consider a Golf R or even a newer GTI.

As for depreciation, yes, BMWs shed a lot of value, especially in the first 1-3 years, but the flip side is you bought one of the most desirable BMWs sold in the past 10 years and resale should hold fairly steady now. The M235 is lightyears ahead of a 3 or 4 series in terms of feel and dynamics. For reference, my cherry 2012 WRX lost 25% of it's value after 3.5 years of ownership. Resale for WRXs used to be quite high until Subaru started making a ton of them with the new gen cars. Now the used market is saturated and resale isn't what it was.
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Old 05-19-2017, 03:33 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post
Hey everyone!
Currently driving a 2014 M235i 6-speed and pretty loaded - don't have a blind spot detection, etc.
I am thinking of changing up a bit and getting into 2017 or 2018 STI.
I understand I will miss the oversteer and winter driving won't be as edgy as my current car with the winter tires on
So I am basically turned b/w a base STI and Limited. I don't care about the NAV but would love to get H/K audio - is it worth it? Or should I just upgrade the base audio with an amp and good headunit w/ speakers?
Edit: also I don't want the park bench at the back, can I order a base with no spoiler?
Any deals on the cars in NY tri-state area?
Got a call from a dealer in Staten Island - if I order it right now I might get it in the end of June.
Thanks!
Go with sti you won't regret it!
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:41 PM   #33
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I would add that trunk swaps for the STI are highly desirable for many WRX owners. You would probably have your swap and cash in hand minutes after posting.
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:57 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post
Thanks!
I will test/tap drive the STI before I decide to dump my M235i for it.
I guess it's the 3-year itch for the new car that makes me look at what's available and get something different.
It's a downgrade. The quality feels cheap on STI vs your BMW. And one big thing... noise noise noise noise noise. You'll hear much of those.
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Old 05-19-2017, 06:02 PM   #35
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If you're in Upstate NY, your best bet is to go through Ramsey Subaru...head over to clubwrx.net. Clayton is the guy you need to order through to get the $500 below invoice on any ordered WRX/STI.

I simply used TrueCar and located three dealers who were willing to do the same deal...and they were closer to me. I wound up getting my STI at Center Subaru in CT.
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Old 05-19-2017, 09:38 PM   #36
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Gonna go left field here: have you looked at a Ford Fusion Sport?
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Old 05-21-2017, 03:34 PM   #37
vapore0n
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Originally Posted by nexgenmax View Post
It's a downgrade. The quality feels cheap on STI vs your BMW. And one big thing... noise noise noise noise noise. You'll hear much of those.
that could be a positive.
BMWs are so quiet inside that the OEM needs to pump fake engine sounds through the stereo!

If OP is worries about dog crate, he should be looking at a wagon/hatchback type car.
Going to have to vote gti in this case.
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Old 05-21-2017, 08:20 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post

I guess it's the 3-year itch for the new car that makes me look at what's available and get something different.

If you change cars every 3 years does it really matter what you get?
Whatever it is it will be under warranty (as long as you don't over mod it).
If you wind up hating it, it's gone soon enough.

I typically hold on to my cars for 15-20 years. So I better REALLY like what I get.

3 years, that's as often as changing your underwear, in car speak.
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:00 PM   #39
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I've had a 2002 WRX, 2004 STi, a 2008 BMW 135i convert, Mk6 and Mk7 GTI's. So far I have to say the BMW was the nicer one inside, followed by the two GTI's. And that N54 engine was so smooth and mod friendly.... never had a problem with it, but didn't like it when they went single turbo with the N55, so I jumped ship to the GTI. Right now I'm trading in my 2015 GTI for a 18 STI (on order). The GTI has become boring, and I miss the AWD from the older WRX's I had.
Like others have said if you don't mind the cheaper interior (although the 18's are supposed to be nicer and quieter inside), I think you will be happy with it. Maybe I haven' read enough posts about stock engines blowing up, but even if they do, it will be covered under warranty. If you plan on modding the heck out of it, then I guess there are stronger platforms to choose, like the Golf R which is in the same price range.

Just my .02
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Old 05-21-2017, 09:10 PM   #40
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Maybe if people actually drove circuit cars in the capacity they were engineered for they would understand what makes a great car... no nevermind. Most of you are dumba$$es and only care about your quarter mile time. AND most important, the vast majority of u couldnt drive your way out of a wet paper bag. Harsh but true.
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Old 05-21-2017, 11:41 PM   #41
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0/10 troll attempt.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:46 PM   #42
MaddMax
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If I needed to cart my dog around and I was tired of the M235, I'd be getting a VW Golf R.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:58 PM   #43
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The Golf R is a great car. I test drove it a couple of times, but it is a very very small car. The cabin is more cramped in comparison to something like the WRX. If you sit in the back seat you can touch the rear windshield, which is just ****ing weird and not a good feeling if you have an 18 wheeler on your ass. If you have rear passengers the hatch is useless and offers terrible storage. A 3 Series or A4 wagon would be better, and you can make tune them and make them look awesome with some exterior mods.
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Old 05-24-2017, 12:58 PM   #44
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0/10 troll attempt.
Haha. No troll attempt. Just reality. All people talk about is "power" and "quarter mile time." How about "turning the steering wheel" and "braking?!" I know those are foreign concepts but for God sake try to actual drive these cars in their FULL capacity. If the only characteristic that matters is HP when u choose a car then why beat around the bush; just get the biggest V8 u can and be done with it.
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Old 05-24-2017, 02:24 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by lqaddict View Post
Here is why in the nutshell
1. My car depreciated 40% in the first 3 years of the ownership.
2. It comes to the end of the warranty period next year, and we all know the price tag on the BMW upkeep.
3. I have a large dog, and would love to take her on the trips with me in the crate on the backseat, the current setup does not allow me to put a large crate at the backseat, and I know what it's like to have your seatbelts chewed off, and also having your dog on the front seat and getting into a car accident - not fun.
4. At some point in the nearest future the family expansion is inevitable - more use for the back seat.

Also thank you for the pointers on who to contact at Ramsey Subaru!
When people look to buy other cars because of M/T in traffic or space, you can easily just buy a second car that's almost a beater, and let it take care of the small things such as space or commute and keep the car you like to drive/track/autocross etc. If it's an older car that's known to be pretty reliable, the cost shouldn't be too high. Property tax and insurance won't be too noticeable.
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Old 05-29-2017, 11:02 AM   #46
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Drive the STI. The resale is ridiculous on these cars so if you buy it and drive it for a couple years you will lose next to nothing. I don't understand why your insurance is so high on a Golf R. I went from a 15 WRX to a Golf R and I think it went up like $40 a year total.

Focus RS is another option and prices are dropping on this.
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Old 05-29-2017, 11:39 PM   #47
STIGJP
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I've had my m235 for 3 years -
Negatives
The blind spot is about the worst of any car I have driven. My wife hates driving it.The M235 is there most exciting car outside of an M2 and The sweet steering from the hydraulic steering from the e9x series is gone.
New bimmers have become very sterile.

Positives
Linear and instant tourque at 1700 rpm
Very tossable, short wheel base is fun to throw around

I drove the 17 STI briefly and it is light years in quality above the 2007 sti I drove new 10 years ago. I don't think the quality is that much below the m235 and the 18 is going to be better. It's about the most pure sport sedan left.

If I could do 80k I would have the Guilia Quadrifoglio in my garage
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Old 05-30-2017, 12:30 PM   #48
MaddMax
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I've had my m235 for 3 years -
Negatives
The blind spot is about the worst of any car I have driven. My wife hates driving it.
Blind spots in the M235? I find the visibility in all directions to be quite exceptional. Perhaps consider setting your mirrors in the appropriate position to get rid of all blind spots.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...id-blind-spots
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:01 PM   #49
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If you have driven any 911 you know the M235i is not exceptional for having a minimal blind spot area. Maybe our heights make the blind spot different? I thought the STI's position was definitely better though I was only in it for a short time.

I don't see how the side mirrors will help, I have played with them a lot. You can't see anything out of the quarter panel unless you swing your head around, also I have the base rear view mirror and it is so tiny, which doesn't help.
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:24 PM   #50
MaddMax
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If you have driven any 911 you know the M235i is not exceptional for having a minimal blind spot area. Maybe our heights make the blind spot different? I thought the STI's position was definitely better though I was only in it for a short time.

I don't see how the side mirrors will help, I have played with them a lot. You can't see anything out of the quarter panel unless you swing your head around, also I have the base rear view mirror and it is so tiny, which doesn't help.
Yes, a 911 has great visibility and such a great sports car. However, the M235 is far from bad at all Set your mirrors using the link I posted. There ARE NO BLIND SPOTS with this setup. I don't have to look over my shoulder as cars on my side are either 1) In my rear view mirror, 2) in my side view mirror, and/or 3) in the corner of my eye. My 2012 WRX had no blindspots with the mirror setup either. I've set my wife's Outback 3.6r mirrors this way and she loves it. I'm 6' 2" and my wife is 5' 8". I rent many different cars for work and the only one I couldn't get it to work well on are the 5th gen+ Camaros. They're hopeless due to window and mirror size. Lastly, the mirror size between the BMW base mirror and dimming/homelink is the same.

This is honestly the first time I've ever heard or read of anyone saying the 2 series has bad blind spots.

Give it a shot.
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