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Old 08-22-2016, 10:57 AM   #1
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New Honda Civic Type-R to target Focus RS






Honda is set to reveal its highly-touted new Civic Type-R at the Paris motor show next month, and the Japanese manufacturer has one culprit in its sights: Ford’s giant-killing Focus RS.

The Blue Oval hyper-hatch has been revealed as the major benchmark for Honda in developing its newest Type-R.

Speaking with journalists today, Honda Australia director Stephen Collins confirmed the next-generation model would be a rapid departure from the Type-R currently not offered in Australia.

“It will be quite a substantial change [from the current model],” he said. “We’re not in a position to go into details but performance-wise it will be outstanding.

“Last time we sold about 2000 Civic Type-Rs. We will bring the best Type-R to the market.

“We really think it will deliver on all the sporty attributes that Type-R is known for.”

Asked whether Honda had honed in on the Volkswagen Golf GTI as a performance benchmark, Honda Australia customer and communications general manager Scott McGregor said: “It’s more playing with Focus RS, that’s the area it plays in”.

With all the speculation pointing to a potent 220kW 2.0-litre turbocharged petrol engines powering the new Civic Type-R, the key question is what transmission options it will be mated with.

Like the model it replaces, it is understood the new Type-R will retain front-drive underpinnings instead of a clever all-wheel drive set-up like the 257kW Focus RS.

“Our enthusiast base is crying out for a manual performance car and in that particular segment we believe that’s the configuration that’s going to work for us,” McGregor said.

“If you look and see what’s happening with Focus RS now, if we only brought an automatic in there could [be potential issues].

“We haven’t confirmed any specs or anything like that but that’s the discussion that’s going on.

Honda’s outgoing Civic Type-R is fitted with a 228kW/400Nm 2.0-litre turbo-petrol four that powers it via a six-speed manual transmission to 100km/h in 5.7 seconds and a 270km/h top speed.

It claimed a series of front-drive production car lap records at Silverstone, Spa-Francorchamps, Hungaroring, Estoril and Monza, but its Renault Megane RS 275-beating Nurburgring record was beaten by Volkswagen’s Golf GTI 40 Years edition.

Honda will no doubt be keen to rectify that with the new Type-R, which will be based on the latest Civic hatch revealed just last week and previously previewed by the Civic hatch concept (pictured).



Honda remains coy on exactly when the new Civic hatch and Type-R will join the latest Civic sedan Down Under, but expect mainstream models to arrive in the first quarter of next year and the hot hatch to follow in the second half of 2017.

“What we can say is that we’re trying to get it as soon as we can,” said McGregor.
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Old 08-22-2016, 11:11 AM   #2
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Like the model it replaces, it is understood the new Type-R will retain front-drive underpinnings instead of a clever all-wheel drive set-up like the 257kW Focus RS
Then you've already lost and your car isn't even out of the mfr bay yet.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:42 PM   #3
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Maybe. However, driving dynamics and fun are not exclusive to AWD. If the car is light, and nimble and has a really good LSD or dare I say it electronic diff, it could pull off some Type R magic again. This is Honda we are talking about. They CAN do it. Whether or not they WILL remains to be seen. I am as skeptical as you are Pre. But it could happen.
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Old 08-22-2016, 12:58 PM   #4
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did they manage to install a corvette exhaust?
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:04 PM   #5
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Plus I hear the FoRS is FWD on the track

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Old 08-22-2016, 01:15 PM   #6
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Maybe. However, driving dynamics and fun are not exclusive to AWD. If the car is light, and nimble and has a really good LSD or dare I say it electronic diff, it could pull off some Type R magic again. This is Honda we are talking about. They CAN do it. Whether or not they WILL remains to be seen. I am as skeptical as you are Pre. But it could happen.
It would be the perfect time to throw on SH-AWD. FWD will not compete with AWD, sorry. RWD or AWD for performance. They are just too stuck in the past. Their solution is Turbo, and it's not enough.
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Old 08-22-2016, 01:56 PM   #7
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Really concerns me if they are insisting that its "playing in the area of the FoRS" and cant match the performance. then its just over priced AF and i cant see it being successful. If they can bring it in at sub $30k then maybe...in championship white....maybe
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Old 08-22-2016, 02:47 PM   #8
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i'm sure that whatever they make will have good numbers on a track. Sticking with fwd is unfortunate though... okay numbers on a track, but poor in day-to-day driving. A high hp fwd car does not appeal to me given that I live in a place with wet roads for a good portion of the year, and mountain passes that require me to put chains on my car unless I have awd... I'd welcome a good performance awd Honda to my driveway. (throw this engine, with awd and a manual into the hrv and maybe you've got a winner?)
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:12 PM   #9
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FWD at these power levels -> no care. At a minimum they could use the SHAWD.
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Old 08-22-2016, 03:46 PM   #10
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FWD at these power levels -> no care. At a minimum they could use the SHAWD.

i mean i get the want for AWD. especially considering they want to compete with the FoRS. But if the chassis/platform isnt set up for it do we want them trying to shoehorn SHAWD into it? would likely make it waaaayy too expensive for the segment. Like the FoRS already is.
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Old 08-22-2016, 08:42 PM   #11
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Like the model it replaces, it is understood the new Type-R will retain front-drive underpinnings instead of a clever all-wheel drive set-up like the 257kW Focus RS.
I have read this "clever" descriptor over and over to almost wonder if it is from a manufacturer press release.

Is it really clever or is there a reason other companies aren't doing it that way... .

I am not too enthused about a powerful FWD car. But hey, it doesn't have huge hype to live up to and may actually impress.
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Old 08-22-2016, 09:44 PM   #12
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The clever part is that it only operates when needed and can remain in fwd mode for improved mpg. This means they can claim awd, but the reality is it
is only awd when the computers say it is needed.


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Old 08-22-2016, 10:02 PM   #13
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The limiting factor of the ITR we got was tires. You couldn't put a tire wider than 225 on it without cutting fenders. Once people figured out the WRX, it was faster than the ITR, given almost the same HP. But the ITR did beat up on the WRX for a bit until wider tires became available for the WRX. But the ITR was still rather fast on the track regardless - tight autox? WRX was better after a year or two of figuring things out (The ITR had a few year head start).

If they can bring in a lightweight challenger that can put wider tires (245 at least, 275 would be awesome) without hitting fender or suspension, it can be REALLY quick.

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Old 08-23-2016, 11:49 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by daveyboy View Post
I have read this "clever" descriptor over and over to almost wonder if it is from a manufacturer press release.

Is it really clever or is there a reason other companies aren't doing it that way... .

I am not too enthused about a powerful FWD car. But hey, it doesn't have huge hype to live up to and may actually impress.
The clever part is that the FoRS's AWD is basically a copy of the SH-AWD that Honda had on the market 11 years ago, but with the added benefit of agressive brake-based yaw control. So, now it's Ford being clever and Honda being a stick in the mud.. that's powerful marketing.


As for a FWD Civic not competing.. here's the euro Type-R civic (based on the Fit platform.. which has been traditionally slower than the JDM Type-R based on larger the Civic platform) compared to the FoRS and Golf R:

tl;dw: The Civic is the preferred dry track day car... it's lighter, has a more frenetic engine, better steering, and puts more power to the wheels with a proper LSD.

Last edited by Calamity Jesus; 08-23-2016 at 11:59 AM.
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:44 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The clever part is that the FoRS's AWD is basically a copy of the SH-AWD that Honda had on the market 11 years ago, but with the added benefit of agressive brake-based yaw control. So, now it's Ford being clever and Honda being a stick in the mud.. that's powerful marketing.


As for a FWD Civic not competing.. here's the euro Type-R civic (based on the Fit platform.. which has been traditionally slower than the JDM Type-R based on larger the Civic platform) compared to the FoRS and Golf R:

tl;dw: The Civic is the preferred dry track day car... it's lighter, has a more frenetic engine, better steering, and puts more power to the wheels with a proper LSD.

Im all for this. I dont need a damn race car and ill most likely never track it. Autox possibly. But ill take a fun, lighter, better handling FWD car for DD over AWD any time. People hate on FWD but then insist the GTI is amazing (which it is).
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Old 08-23-2016, 05:54 PM   #16
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^^^^^ THIS, exactly this ^^^^^
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:16 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus View Post
The clever part is that the FoRS's AWD is basically a copy of the SH-AWD that Honda had on the market 11 years ago, but with the added benefit of agressive brake-based yaw control. So, now it's Ford being clever and Honda being a stick in the mud.. that's powerful marketing.


As for a FWD Civic not competing.. here's the euro Type-R civic (based on the Fit platform.. which has been traditionally slower than the JDM Type-R based on larger the Civic platform) compared to the FoRS and Golf R:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D82QJlj-ruo

tl;dw: The Civic is the preferred dry track day car... it's lighter, has a more frenetic engine, better steering, and puts more power to the wheels with a proper LSD.
Keep in mind that's a hell of an expensive FWD car costing as much or more fully loaded than the Golf R or RS.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:57 PM   #18
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If the Type R looks like the red sedan pictured then I will likely trade my 16 wrx in for one. Esspacially if its priced around 30K. I dont care if its FWD or AWD. Honda has made some of the best FWD cars ever. I willing the bet the interior will be way nicer as well. I enjoy my WRX but im a honda boy at heart.
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Old 08-23-2016, 06:59 PM   #19
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FWD cars aren't great in inclement weather. They're better than RWD, but still trail AWD. I understand that for some climates maybe it's acceptable, but there's a reason that the pacific northwest is subaru country. Since it's wet for 6 months of the year, I want something that can put some power to the ground when it's wet, rather than just lighting up the tires. Poor inclement weather driving is not a track issue, it's a daily driver issue.

A few months back, I was driving in downtown Seattle. On a rainy day, I got stopped at a stop light on one of the very steep streets we have downtown (everyone thinks of SF as being hilly, but Seattle has some seriously steep streets) behind a brand new Civic. The Civic couldn't get moving, he just kept spinning his wheels, starting to slide backwards down the hill. I simply went around him, as did all of the other Subaru's on the road. By the time I got past the next block, he was still in the same spot.

Plus, there's the whole tire chain issue here in the mountains, which makes awd a no-brainer for anyone who enjoys recreating in the mountains in the winter time.

FWD has it's place, but it's not in my driveway.
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Old 08-23-2016, 07:29 PM   #20
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@dwf137,

In those types of environments I totally understand where your coming from. I live in the Northeast. Buffalo to be exact. We have some brutal winters, that was part of the reason I was interested in the WRX. However, I find that snow tires really solve any snow related issue to come up.

That situation you discussed makes me laugh though... I bet that was the day the civic driver decided to get a subaru lol.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:09 PM   #21
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If the Type R looks like the red sedan pictured then I will likely trade my 16 wrx in for one. Esspacially if its priced around 30K. I dont care if its FWD or AWD. Honda has made some of the best FWD cars ever. I willing the bet the interior will be way nicer as well. I enjoy my WRX but im a honda boy at heart.
Better hope it ain't built in that Alabama plant. Big time QC issues and using Us parts suppliers.
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Old 08-23-2016, 09:53 PM   #22
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The Civic R from 2 generations ago was unanimously praised - it's really a Touring Car, so obviously not really a street car or winter car.

It's not what I need in my life, and probably too harsh for US crappy roads. I'd love to own one in Switzerland.
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Old 08-24-2016, 12:02 PM   #23
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Better hope it ain't built in that Alabama plant. Big time QC issues and using Us parts suppliers.
It'll be built in England, from what I've read.

Furthermore, aren't the Civics built in Indiana now?
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:34 PM   #24
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However, I find that snow tires really solve any snow related issue to come up.
Agreed. Snow tires plus FWD is definitely acceptable. I had an MCS for a year and had a set of snow tires on it. I had no issues getting up to the mountains, but when the sign says "chains required except awd" and there's a cop sitting at the chain up location... I had to stop, get out in the rain (changed to snow about 1/8 mile up the road), and install chains... never again.
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Old 08-24-2016, 01:54 PM   #25
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Agreed. Snow tires plus FWD is definitely acceptable. I had an MCS for a year and had a set of snow tires on it. I had no issues getting up to the mountains, but when the sign says "chains required except awd" and there's a cop sitting at the chain up location... I had to stop, get out in the rain (changed to snow about 1/8 mile up the road), and install chains... never again.
My understanding was that WA law is you just need chains present in the trunk, not that you actually need to install chains.
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