New Subaru Levorg revealed as 'grand touring' estate

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by D-Rodman

Do you eat lunch at midnight and dinner at noon ?
Thanks.

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[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

I certainly won't argue "utility" differences and I also don't see much, if any. However, it's not just "utility". It is sometimes simply the height. Many folks don't want to be sitting soo low they can't see as well passed the larger vehicles(and that also includes pickups. Not just more SUVs) and relative ease of getting in and out of versus a wagon. Happened more times than I can count when I showed people Legacy wagons and then Outbacks. They chose the Outback for ease of entry and viewing position. Plane and simple.

I'm dealing with this at home. My 72yo stepfather lives with us now. He's basically taken over my Ridgeline because it's the only car he'll drive. He used to own wagons (he's the one that started our family on Subaru wagons back in 1987), but he hates the low hip line getting in and out. The thing is, he's in better shape than most 50yos. I've owned my Clarity for 27 months now, but he's yet to drive it because of the seat height. It's not even that low. the seats are on top of battery packs. I'm probably going to trade it in on a Pacifica Hybrid just to keep with the PHEV thing, so that he'll be able to drive both vehicles in the household.

Anyway, that's all beside the point. The point is, that auto manufacturers seem to think that wagon shoppers are all old men that want automatic transmissions, 100lb 18-way power seats, chrome, and brown paint. In reality, it's the hot hatch/sportscar enthusiast with a family and hobbies that wants wagons for their better agility.. and we want them with manual transmissions, no chrome, and something mid-level with options. I was really hoping that Subaru, after selling a tremendous number of wagons with SCCA memberships 20 years ago, would realize this and bring the Levorg as the sporty wagon for the down market to appeal to those of us that want to have our sporty cake and haul stuff too.

Okay, well..., I want brown paint.

[4S-TURBO]

My dad is 67 and he’s a mixed bag. Primarily drives trucks and Jeep’s as a daily since the 70s, but lusts after the lowest riding cars ever sold. His 67 Mustang by today’s standards is ridiculously low. Almost easier to sit on the ground and climb up into than going in normal. It’s made for little people with basketball player limbs. But he complains about getting in and out of my mom’s 328xi wagon. Just whatever is considered acceptable and justified for feels.

[WRX4US]

I’m not sure broad generalizations apply. I’ve heard complaints from older folks with knee replacements complain about having to climb up(in) and down(out) from SUVs too.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by WRX4US

I'm not sure broad generalizations apply. I've heard complaints from older folks with knee replacements complain about having to climb up(in) and down(out) from SUVs too.

sure.. big truck-based SUVs are still inconvenient. Most crossovers have a neutral hip height that granny can slide into from her walker. Once even a fit Zoomer gets used to sliding in and out of a car effortlessly, climbing down into a low car is going to be an unnecessary inconvenience every trip. Those of us that grew up in the 70s and 80s where every car was either too high or too low, well, it's just normal.

[subyski]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

sure.. big truck-based SUVs are still inconvenient. Most crossovers have a neutral hip height that granny can slide into from her walker. Once even a fit Zoomer gets used to sliding in and out of a car effortlessly, climbing down into a low car is going to be an unnecessary inconvenience every trip. Those of us that grew up in the 70s and 80s where every car was either too high or too low, well, it's just normal.

I always found that most cars from pre 80's to have a more CUV entry height level. The old station wagons of that era are equivalent to todays CUV's. My 68 Impala feels more like getting into my Santa Fe than my Impreza (except for the super springy bench seat). My 79 yr old Dad prefers getting into the Impala than plopping down into the Impreza seats.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Calamity Jesus

I'm dealing with this at home. My 72yo stepfather lives with us now. He's basically taken over my Ridgeline because it's the only car he'll drive. He used to own wagons (he's the one that started our family on Subaru wagons back in 1987), but he hates the low hip line getting in and out. The thing is, he's in better shape than most 50yos. I've owned my Clarity for 27 months now, but he's yet to drive it because of the seat height. It's not even that low. the seats are on top of battery packs. I'm probably going to trade it in on a Pacifica Hybrid just to keep with the PHEV thing, so that he'll be able to drive both vehicles in the household.

Anyway, that's all beside the point. The point is, that auto manufacturers seem to think that wagon shoppers are all old men that want automatic transmissions, 100lb 18-way power seats, chrome, and brown paint. In reality, it's the hot hatch/sportscar enthusiast with a family and hobbies that wants wagons for their better agility.. and we want them with manual transmissions, no chrome, and something mid-level with options. I was really hoping that Subaru, after selling a tremendous number of wagons with SCCA memberships 20 years ago, would realize this and bring the Levorg as the sporty wagon for the down market to appeal to those of us that want to have our sporty cake and haul stuff too.

Okay, well..., I want brown paint.

Our 3rd Subaru was an '85 GL 4WD wagon in Crest Brown Metallic with white mag wheels. I miss that car.

Originally Posted by WRX4US

I’m not sure broad generalizations apply. I’ve heard complaints from older folks with knee replacements complain about having to climb up(in) and down(out) from SUVs too.

Absolutely. I've heard it more times that I can count and a reason MANY of those folks chose the Subaru. Because of the ease of entry.

[4S-TURBO]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Our 3rd Subaru was an '85 GL 4WD wagon in Crest Brown Metallic with white mag wheels. I miss that car.

Mine was an '86 Turbo burgundy with the polished MAG WHEELS. Stay classy.

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Absolutely. I've heard it more times that I can count and a reason MANY of those folks chose the Subaru. Because of the ease of entry.

Yeah people may only be at your dealer shopping a Subaru in the first place because they are part of the ingress egress and visibility crowd that Subaru has conquested over the years. The standard AWD for the same as the competitors FWD version clinches it.

Finding a happy medium of all things for a good value is not a generalization. It's how Subaru is successful in the US. If the meat of Subaru's customers start complaining the Outback or Forester is too hard to get in and out of or load stuff because too high, you know, DEMAND, Subaru might consider redesigning stuff or offering an alternative. But how responsive they are to a small group...well, we know the answer to that.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by subyski

I always found that most cars from pre 80's to have a more CUV entry height level. The old station wagons of that era are equivalent to todays CUV's. My 68 Impala feels more like getting into my Santa Fe than my Impreza (except for the super springy bench seat). My 79 yr old Dad prefers getting into the Impala than plopping down into the Impreza seats.

That's why I specified 70s & 80s.. when nearly everything was either a tiny low fuel sipper, big low 'Murican sedan, or a body-on-frame SUV that needed running boards to access.

[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by WRX4US

I’m not sure broad generalizations apply. I’ve heard complaints from older folks with knee replacements complain about having to climb up(in) and down(out) from SUVs too.

I've taken care of older people who LOVED the lower ride height of my Impreza. Just depends on the situation.

[Kostamojen]

The Forester and the X3 were the best two vehicles my 82 year old dad found for vehicle entry. He can't bend his neck much when he gets in so low cars are impossible. He is also 6' tall so he isn't small.

The outback sits a little lower and its noticeable. The Ascent is good but the Forester is actually a little better. A 4runner is difficult to get in as is any truck. The Gladiator we tried was almost impossible for him. The Macan has just barely enough room for him to get in without ducking, but the seats move so far back its quite comfy for him and fit him the best/most comfortably out of everything we tried.

[WRX4US]

Perhaps, with the rumored coming adjustable suspension; a program can be installed to bring the car to a user adjustable height that best serves the users ingress/egress when coming to a stop, and then return to, an again user adjustable preferred driving height, or optionally return to the last height setting when put in drive?

[4S-TURBO]

FIXEDDXED

[Pre]

Badges and a "matte" black vinyl stripe! Where do I sign Tommy Balls?

[subyski]

Originally Posted by WRX4US

Perhaps, with the rumored coming adjustable suspension; a program can be installed to bring the car to a user adjustable height that best serves the users ingress/egress when coming to a stop, and then return to, an again user adjustable preferred driving height, or optionally return to the last height setting when put in drive?

The rumored adjustable suspension is adjusting firmness for comfort and sport driving. Height adjustment requires air or hydraulics, usually found on much pricier luxury vehicles. Subaru will not do anything like this.

[WRX4US]

Originally Posted by subyski

The rumored adjustable suspension is adjusting firmness for comfort and sport driving. Height adjustment requires air or hydraulics, usually found on much pricier luxury vehicles. Subaru will not do anything like this.

Seemed like a “rally” appropriate application?

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by subyski

The rumored adjustable suspension is adjusting firmness for comfort and sport driving. Height adjustment requires air or hydraulics, usually found on much pricier luxury vehicles. Subaru will not do anything like this.

They have before....why not again?

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by subyski

The rumored adjustable suspension is adjusting firmness for comfort and sport driving. Height adjustment requires air or hydraulics, usually found on much pricier luxury vehicles. Subaru will not do anything like this.

Correct. The Levorg STI Sport has it, and it is similar to the Golf R DCC. It is not an air suspension like Tesla, etc.

[subyski]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

They have before....why not again?

Back in the early 90's, when the Japanese were much more risky and innovative. But I thought they were for load control and not height control. This is nothing like the full height adjustment found in top end Grand Cherokees.

Sure they could go this route too. But they are too expensive to replace for your average Subaru consumer today.

[mcarb002]

Yeah it makes no sense to add it for Subaru as post above mentioned it would be an expensive endeavor with maintenance and possible loss of clients due to pricing. Specially adding it to the “outdoorsy” cars of the brand. Truth is that an air suspension is a luxury when it comes to outdoors. Very few serious overlanders or off-roaders would ride an air suspension. Just look at the new Defender, that thing is going to sit in city pavements all day, more likely the dealer repair shop but then again that’s a given. These things are controlled by the car’s cpu , one problem with the sensors or something and you’re fkd out in the middle of nowhere with no way of repairing it. Yeah no thanks.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by subyski

Back in the early 90's, when the Japanese were much more risky and innovative. But I thought they were for load control and not height control. This is nothing like the full height adjustment found in top end Grand Cherokees.

Sure they could go this route too. But they are too expensive to replace for your average Subaru consumer today.

Depends on the car and application. I'm a bit unfamiliar with the USDM versions; but, it didn't look much different than the ones I experienced(not owned) while in Japan. A buddy had one and lived near a mountain. I always loved watching the car raise up before he started. He scared the living crap out of me "rallying" up and down them IN THE DARK. No extra lights. Whew!

Originally Posted by mcarb002

Yeah it makes no sense to add it for Subaru as post above mentioned it would be an expensive endeavor with maintenance and possible loss of clients due to pricing. Specially adding it to the "outdoorsy" cars of the brand. Truth is that an air suspension is a luxury when it comes to outdoors. Very few serious overlanders or off-roaders would ride an air suspension. Just look at the new Defender, that thing is going to sit in city pavements all day, more likely the dealer repair shop but then again that's a given. These things are controlled by the car's cpu , one problem with the sensors or something and you're fkd out in the middle of nowhere with no way of repairing it. Yeah no thanks.

I don't disagree with price and possible maintenance.

[brandon]

Originally Posted by subyski

But I thought they were for load control and not height control. This is nothing like the full height adjustment found in top end Grand Cherokees.

Sure they could go this route too. But they are too expensive to replace for your average Subaru consumer today.

The Subaru XT and XT6 had full height adjustable air suspention in the 80s. I believe the RX also had it, but I'm not certain there. I drove a few XTs and an XT6 with the air suspension, and I didn't mind it at all. It was later Outbacks and Foresters which had the load levellng setup.

Subaru in the 80s and early 90s was quite an innovator. CVT transmissions, height adjustable air suspension, true AWD... with dual range transmissions. Cybrid(?) steering. Heck, the XT had one of the lowest cds on the market. Those were the days when Subaru was run by the Engineers though.

[chanomatik]

And, again, Japan was on a high in the 80's and 90's. It's tough to compare then to now.

[subyski]

Originally Posted by brandon

The Subaru XT and XT6 had full height adjustable air suspention in the 80s. I believe the RX also had it, but I'm not certain there. I drove a few XTs and an XT6 with the air suspension, and I didn't mind it at all. It was later Outbacks and Foresters which had the load levellng setup.

Subaru in the 80s and early 90s was quite an innovator. CVT transmissions, height adjustable air suspension, true AWD... with dual range transmissions. Cybrid(?) steering. Heck, the XT had one of the lowest cds on the market. Those were the days when Subaru was run by the Engineers though.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

Originally Posted by chanomatik

And, again, Japan was on a high in the 80's and 90's. It's tough to compare then to now.

This is definitely the truth. It's not just Subaru but the whole Japanese automotive manufacturers. Innovation was high but even style was completely different. There's so much over the top bold styling coming from Japan, except maybe Mazda.

[djramz]

The body shape will have to grow on me.