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Old 09-15-2020, 09:46 PM   #276
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Did I misread one of the articles or is this new style supposed to be larger in size closer to a legacy?
Its a good bet it will be larger than the current Gen. From the GR's on up they lacked the Influence and Impact that the GD's had on the performance market, the GD's will go down as the most influential of all the STI's. The Next Gen will probably be similar in size to a Camry, but its going to have 415-420 horsepower from the factory.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:55 PM   #277
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More wisdom from the sentient toilet.
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Old 09-15-2020, 09:57 PM   #278
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Its a good bet it will be larger than the current Gen. . . . The Next Gen will probably be similar in size to a Camry, but its going to have 415-420 horsepower from the factory.
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Old 09-15-2020, 10:14 PM   #279
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I can't wait until 2022 to come back and read this comment
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
Its a good bet it will be larger than the current Gen. From the GR's on up they lacked the Influence and Impact that the GD's had on the performance market, the GD's will go down as the most influential of all the STI's. The Next Gen will probably be similar in size to a Camry, but its going to have 415-420 horsepower from the factory.
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Old 09-15-2020, 11:09 PM   #280
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I just hope it still retains the raw and visceral feeling of an sti/wrx
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Old 09-16-2020, 03:39 AM   #281
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Bubbles if you need a monitor or older flat panel for the shack hit me up. Big fans of you, Ricky, and Julian. Iíll score some weed for Ricky and a bottle for Julian. Bring back success auto body man.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:06 AM   #282
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I just hope it still retains the raw and visceral feeling of an sti/wrx
Eh, probably not. Every new gen STI since the GD era had been measured by the excitng raw high strung feel of the 2004-2007 GD, and all produced after have been described as softer and not quite the same connected feeling that one gets driving a GD. Sure the subsequent gens had great steering and rgidity, but by then lots of cars did. There's just something special about the GD that they can never duplicate again; and that is, they drove and accelerated and handled levels above anything in their price rang and well beyond in some.cases. so even with 415-420 horse power(which will be a welcome upgrade), the new STI will be more catching up than leading as it did in 2004-2007.
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Old 09-16-2020, 11:09 AM   #283
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Look at that spelling. The source code is corrupted!
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:39 PM   #284
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Unless of course they pull off a surprise and we get the AMG topping 415-420 horsepower 2.4 and they supplement THAT with another 50-100 horsepower in added electric power...so possibly 465-520 total output in horsepower. That would put the STI in a position of leading rather than catching up. One can hope that the STI can make a splash like it did with the GD's in 2004-2007, and do it again in 2022 with something that knocks the industries socks off with an insane hybrid!
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Old 09-16-2020, 04:44 PM   #285
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Old 09-16-2020, 06:53 PM   #286
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Unless of course they pull off a surprise and we get the AMG topping 415-420 horsepower 2.4 and they supplement THAT with another 50-100 horsepower in added electric power...so possibly 465-520 total output in horsepower. That would put the STI in a position of leading rather than catching up. One can hope that the STI can make a splash like it did with the GD's in 2004-2007, and do it again in 2022 with something that knocks the industries socks off with an insane hybrid!
For some reason I don't see it breaching 400hp for the USDM. it still has to pass US emissions requirements. just the fact that it must retain its AWD, and still has to be very fuel efficient hampers how high it can go. they would still have to tune it down to pass emissions before it can be sold in the states. even though initially when they build it, the STI may have over 400hp at the time of it being built, it may be detuned to match emissions. It would then be up to tuners to tune them back to their real horsepower figures. Don't forget the S209 possibly made much more power when they built it, but they had no choice but to detune it to pass emissions and keep the price down
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Old 09-16-2020, 10:46 PM   #287
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I just posted in an ATI forum - their fans are much like STI fans. Every model year / release, they are 100% convinced, *THIS* is the release that Subaru / ATI brings out the killer upgrade that totally beats <competitor> / NVIDIA in terms of power, price, reliability, etc. Because they totally did it that one time, 15+ years ago, so it's GOTTA be THIS year they do it again.
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:36 AM   #288
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In my opinion, the bumper needs to be reduced, this is too long a meter overhang. This spoils the geometry.
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:39 AM   #289
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I just posted in an ATI forum - their fans are much like STI fans. Every model year / release, they are 100% convinced, *THIS* is the release that Subaru / ATI brings out the killer upgrade that totally beats <competitor> / NVIDIA in terms of power, price, reliability, etc. Because they totally did it that one time, 15+ years ago, so it's GOTTA be THIS year they do it again.
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Old 09-17-2020, 09:38 AM   #290
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Originally Posted by hadvw View Post
I just posted in an ATI forum - their fans are much like STI fans. Every model year / release, they are 100% convinced, *THIS* is the release that Subaru / ATI brings out the killer upgrade that totally beats <competitor> / NVIDIA in terms of power, price, reliability, etc. Because they totally did it that one time, 15+ years ago, so it's GOTTA be THIS year they do it again.
Except in this case, Subaru is doing just fine where it counts (sales) and sadly only needs to keep on pumping out the same old affordable meh stuff and the money will continue flooding in. Very little spice will go a long way in this situation.

A 400hp STI/ 300hp WRX @ traditional STI/WRX prices - what I expect - would be a pretty face melting move, so long as they don't go too crazy with the ugly stick (has happened before) or make things CVT only.

That's not to say they can't do something totally unexpected. Just seems like those days are behind them.
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:32 PM   #291
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How much reliable power can you really get out of an H4 engine with less than 3 liters? Are people really expecting 400? Maybe a turbo H6 3.0+. Thirsty beast.
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:47 PM   #292
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How much reliable power can you really get out of an H4 engine with less than 3 liters? Are people really expecting 400? Maybe a turbo H6 3.0+. Thirsty beast.
2.7L H6 turbo derived from CB18DIT could do 400-hp on pump gas because long stroker FTW
But, then again, Porsche is making 350-hp on pump gas with their 2.5L H4 and it's pretty much a bored out EJ207 in terms of bore/stroke (massively oversquare).
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Old 09-17-2020, 12:58 PM   #293
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
2.7L H6 turbo derived from CB18DIT could do 400-hp on pump gas because long stroker FTW
But, then again, Porsche is making 350-hp on pump gas with their 2.5L H4 and it's pretty much a bored out EJ207 in terms of bore/stroke (massively oversquare).
yeah yea yeah, then add hybrid power, be a leader with 600 powers and make this the next STI:



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Old 09-17-2020, 01:08 PM   #294
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yeah yea yeah, then add hybrid power, be a leader with 600 powers and make this the next STI:



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Old 09-17-2020, 02:45 PM   #295
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For some reason I don't see it breaching 400hp for the USDM. it still has to pass US emissions requirements. just the fact that it must retain its AWD, and still has to be very fuel efficient hampers how high it can go. they would still have to tune it down to pass emissions before it can be sold in the states. even though initially when they build it, the STI may have over 400hp at the time of it being built, it may be detuned to match emissions. It would then be up to tuners to tune them back to their real horsepower figures. Don't forget the S209 possibly made much more power when they built it, but they had no choice but to detune it to pass emissions and keep the price down

Good points and I agree with most of it. However, 400+ at the crank was easy for the EJ 2.5 and plenty of people passed emmissions tests from the exhaust sniffer testing method that were very modded like that for many years.
I would think a new FA engine should EASILY be able to put 400+ at the crank from the factory with meeting certifications, and then enthusiast tuning after get it to even more and still pass OBD11 emmissions. I could be wrong and maybe I am giving technology improvements too much credit, but subaru has been pretty good at meeting emmissions, never heard of them getting questioned about factory tunes(that had cheater programs built in to fool emmissions tests), relative to V.W for example, and Porsche last month got flagged for having cheater tunes as well to skirt past emmissions tests. I dont think subaru will have to do anything like that and the AMG 2.0 GLA45 horsepower ratings can be duplicated and probably exceeded with the 2.4FA with the time they are putting into it.

f course the real solution to these dilemas for manufacturers of high horsepower small ("fuel conserving"), engines is to supplement with electric motors, they all get that now.

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Old 09-17-2020, 02:50 PM   #296
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Good points and I agree with most of it. However, 400+ at the crank was easy for the EJ 2.5 and plenty of people passed emmissions tests from the exhaust sniffer testing method that were very modded like that for many years.
I would think a new FA engine should EASILY be able to put 400+ at the crank from the factory with meeting certifications.
Lol idk who's more delusional you or poison
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Old 09-17-2020, 02:55 PM   #297
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So long as it's bigger than a Camry and has that easy button power maker with reliability Subaru is famous for, I think our work is done here.
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:00 PM   #298
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Unless Subaru's intent with the next generation is to change the market (moving one performance class up for each of the cars respectively) in which they compete (WRX and STI), we are not going to see a substantial increase in power for either model.
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:29 PM   #299
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[...]However, 400+ at the crank was easy for the EJ 2.5 and plenty of people passed emmissions tests from the exhaust sniffer testing method that were very modded like that for many years.[..]
Passing the sniffer test does not matter if the car fails visual inspection for having an aftermarket downpipe...
Also passing a simple sniffer test at a fixed 2.5K RPM with zero engine load is not the same as passing a full battery of tests on a rolling dyno that can simulate all kinds of engine loads.
You are over simplifying and minimizing what it really takes to build a CARB/EPA compliant vehicle.
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Old 09-17-2020, 03:45 PM   #300
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Subaru Corporation needs to have the lowest total CO2 emissions to meet fuel Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) regulations. It’s the reason Subaru will launch its all-electric SUV being developed with Toyota so they can reduce the fuel consumption of Subaru vehicles as a whole.
Before Subaru releases the STI for sale, the Japanese automaker could also bring out new Outback, Ascent, and Legacy hybrid models in the U.S. and global markets to reduce overall fleet emissions.
Take this info with a grain of salt because the source and repeated source are less than stellar, but absence any other info, it fills in some of the blanks with logic. The making of 400 hp with 2.4 liters on 91 is another story. Porsche didn't even push their 2.5T in the GT4 and went the the 4.0 instead. And the Cayman has less load and drive losses to worry about.
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