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Old 02-22-2021, 11:46 PM   #26
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The fact that it still has an NA V8 is enough to distinguish it from the competition and make it desirable to a specific kind of buyer. Off the top of my head I can only think of the Charger and Genesis G90 as far as four doors and a V8 go, and both of those are way larger and a completely different type of car altogether.

If I was leasing a car I'd probably take the M340i, if I were buying and keeping it for awhile I'd probably take this. Lexus' reliability, cost of ownership, and resale value are hard to beat in the luxury segment.
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Old 02-23-2021, 12:13 AM   #27
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M340i starts at 55k, I think they are going to be at similar price points, with the Lexus being cheaper since it's mostly a parts-bin send off model.

Lexus NA V8 with 472/396 @ ~3,900lbs vs. BMW Turbo I6 with 382/369 @ ~4,000lbs; I hate paper racing, but I disagree with your assessment based on the information we have right now (mainly, spec sheets).

That argument aside, I think the Lexus will be the more engaging car to drive and have an infinitely better soundtrack.
M340 has run 12.1 stock. My assumption is that that this will run similar to the RC-F at 12.7. Even if this IS500 is 100lbs less than the RC-F, it's not making up a half a second.
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Old 02-23-2021, 04:26 AM   #28
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M340 has run 12.1 stock. My assumption is that that this will run similar to the RC-F at 12.7. Even if this IS500 is 100lbs less than the RC-F, it's not making up a half a second.
I think it's more about the nearly 100hp difference...
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Old 02-23-2021, 07:57 AM   #29
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The fact that it still has an NA V8 is enough to distinguish it from the competition and make it desirable to a specific kind of buyer. Off the top of my head I can only think of the Charger and Genesis G90 as far as four doors and a V8 go, and both of those are way larger and a completely different type of car altogether.

If I was leasing a car I'd probably take the M340i, if I were buying and keeping it for awhile I'd probably take this. Lexus' reliability, cost of ownership, and resale value are hard to beat in the luxury segment.
CT5-V is the only other one I can think of. And itís much bigger and $30k more starting. If we ignore the V8 4 door thing itís competition at around $55k is what?

M340i/M2 comp
Alfa Guilia QF ($15k more but maybe a used one)
Charger/Challenger
Mustang Mach 1
CT4-V
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Old 02-24-2021, 03:08 PM   #30
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CT5-V is the only other one I can think of. And itís much bigger and $30k more starting. If we ignore the V8 4 door thing itís competition at around $55k is what?

M340i/M2 comp
Alfa Guilia QF ($15k more but maybe a used one)
Charger/Challenger
Mustang Mach 1
CT4-V
Good luck actually get an M2C for $55k. You're more in the $60k-$70k range for one of those. The m340i is one hell of a deal though and can find damn good lease or year end deals. Basic tune puts you over 400whp/tq.
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:30 AM   #31
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Good luck actually get an M2C for $55k. You're more in the $60k-$70k range for one of those. The m340i is one hell of a deal though and can find damn good lease or year end deals. Basic tune puts you over 400whp/tq.
The M2C I'd want would have no options so stickers at $60k. Not interested in an M340i especially auto-only. I've sort of lost interest in BMWs in general, the only one I'd still like to have is the M2C (or CS if someone else is paying).

I think I got excited thinking the IS500 was an ISF or RC-F Track Edition in sedan form. But it seems like it's an IS350 F Sport w/ V8 and not much else. Still very nice and I guess if you got bored with it there'd be great resale.
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Old 02-25-2021, 03:18 AM   #32
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Been itching for cars like this for a long time. Guess my prayers for a fun, fast car that is truly RELIABLE have finally been answered. haven't seen a car matching that description in a long while. Guess we'll see how it turns out, but Toyota usually doesn't mess around. My guess is reliability is their top priority and power came second.


I love our Subies and often tout that they can be reliable if given proper care, but Toyotas are historically indestructible, despite owner error. I have my fingers crossed.
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:44 AM   #33
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It'll be auto only like everything else they make so no interest. A manual in that f'er, oh boy that would be awesome!
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Old 02-25-2021, 09:13 AM   #34
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It'll be auto only like everything else they make so no interest. A manual in that f'er, oh boy that would be awesome!
Having been driving an IS350 for a year, it's a really good auto, but it's still no manual. The IS500 would be more fun (because more cylinders and better noises) but I still want a manual, there are just zero options on the market for a RWD performance four door with a manual; CT4-V blackwing is coming, that's about it, I'd still rather it with an NA V8 though.
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Old 02-25-2021, 12:51 PM   #35
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Having been driving an IS350 for a year, it's a really good auto, but it's still no manual. The IS500 would be more fun (because more cylinders and better noises) but I still want a manual, there are just zero options on the market for a RWD performance four door with a manual; CT4-V blackwing is coming, that's about it, I'd still rather it with an NA V8 though.
Isnít there an M3 manual? But yeah, Iím in the same boat. Caddy would be perfect if it just had an LS1 V8, canít get excited about the pickup truck V6. Iíd give up speed for more exciting sounding engine.

Manual IS500 would be perfect.
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Old 02-25-2021, 03:21 PM   #36
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Isnít there an M3 manual? But yeah, Iím in the same boat. Caddy would be perfect if it just had an LS1 V8, canít get excited about the pickup truck V6. Iíd give up speed for more exciting sounding engine.

Manual IS500 would be perfect.
Manual IS500 would check enough boxes to warrant a purchase.

M3 Manual exists, but starts at 70k and quickly jumps to crazy levels upon checking any boxes, not looking to spend that kind of money for something I won't keep outside of warranty; and it's a turbo 6, I wasn't a huge fan of it in the 340i, granted the wick is turned up a bit in the M3.

Even though I'll always want more power eventually, an NA V8 6mt combo is more than enough; I'd honestly take almost any NA winder (I4, I5, I6, V6, V8) in a "light" RWD chassis if it's got a manual and a mechanical diff.
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Old 02-25-2021, 03:36 PM   #37
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^Where were you when the SS sedan came out?
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Old 02-25-2021, 03:54 PM   #38
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Having been driving an IS350 for a year, it's a really good auto, but it's still no manual. The IS500 would be more fun (because more cylinders and better noises) but I still want a manual, there are just zero options on the market for a RWD performance four door with a manual; CT4-V blackwing is coming, that's about it, I'd still rather it with an NA V8 though.

GM made one, or Holden did, and it didn't sell. It was not marketed though either. A simple Corvette commercial showing the Vette underpinnings migrating into the thing would have done wonders for sales but it's come and gone. Anything cool is getting eaten alive by the crackers. Mainstream or death I guess.
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:03 PM   #39
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^Where were you when the SS sedan came out?
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GM made one, or Holden did, and it didn't sell. It was not marketed though either. A simple Corvette commercial showing the Vette underpinnings migrating into the thing would have done wonders for sales but it's come and gone. Anything cool is getting eaten alive by the crackers. Mainstream or death I guess.
I test drove one, at the time it felt too big and too heavy (I still think it is both of those things), it was 4k pounds of full size sedan. It was on my short list, but it honestly wasn't a very usable car considering it's size; the trunk was tiny, and only had a pass-through.

At the time I was comparing it to my 2006 WRX wagon, so I had relatively small size, light weight, and massive utility; the SS felt like several steps in the wrong direction. Fast forward a few years and I still wouldn't go for a Scat Pack Charger because it was too big & heavy of a car (although with only an Auto offered in that one).
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Old 02-25-2021, 04:05 PM   #40
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GM made one, or Holden did, and it didn't sell. It was not marketed though either. A simple Corvette commercial showing the Vette underpinnings migrating into the thing would have done wonders for sales but it's come and gone. Anything cool is getting eaten alive by the crackers. Mainstream or death I guess.
GM was probably thinking of shutting down Holden by the time the SS made it here. If not, they were ready to destroy the brand by replacing Holden with Opel products. Once they sold Opel, the brand was useless to them.

GM didn't need to market the SS because they already decided what to allocate for Chevrolet. It was an enthusiasts olive branch but after that it was all over. GM made the decision to shut down manufacturing in Aussie land, regardless of the SS success or not.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:06 PM   #41
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Even though I'll always want more power eventually, an NA V8 6mt combo is more than enough; I'd honestly take almost any NA winder (I4, I5, I6, V6, V8) in a "light" RWD chassis if it's got a manual and a mechanical diff.
Used 320i sport 6mT?

I'm a little pickier, want a V8, or at least a sweet sounding turbo six.

I need 4 seats but don't really need 4 doors, so that opens it up to Mustangs and Challengers.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:07 PM   #42
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^Where were you when the SS sedan came out?
I remember - I was like "sweet mechanicals but $50k for a rental car interior and exterior?"

I'd consider a used one if they weren't $40k.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:09 PM   #43
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GM made one, or Holden did, and it didn't sell. It was not marketed though either. A simple Corvette commercial showing the Vette underpinnings migrating into the thing would have done wonders for sales but it's come and gone. Anything cool is getting eaten alive by the crackers. Mainstream or death I guess.
Yeah, we can't blame carmakers when the public doesn't buy the cool cars. Nobody bought the ISF either - so can't blame Lexus for making this IS500 cheaper and less 'track'. I think it will outsell the ISF.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:11 PM   #44
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I test drove one, at the time it felt too big and too heavy (I still think it is both of those things), it was 4k pounds of full size sedan. It was on my short list, but it honestly wasn't a very usable car considering it's size; the trunk was tiny, and only had a pass-through.

At the time I was comparing it to my 2006 WRX wagon, so I had relatively small size, light weight, and massive utility; the SS felt like several steps in the wrong direction. Fast forward a few years and I still wouldn't go for a Scat Pack Charger because it was too big & heavy of a car (although with only an Auto offered in that one).
SS was a cruiser like the Challenger - I kind of want that now at this stage of my life, more than I want something like an STI or a Type R. There's nowhere suitable to drive those cars for me. Track days are not an option.
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Old 02-25-2021, 05:45 PM   #45
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Yeah, we can't blame carmakers when the public doesn't buy the cool cars. Nobody bought the ISF either - so can't blame Lexus for making this IS500 cheaper and less 'track'. I think it will outsell the ISF.
IS-F was heavy and had an engine that needed to rev out mated to a transmission that wasn't as sharp as a dual clutch with nannies that didn't want to go away in a package that made people look at something else instead...

Oh wait that's the RC-F.
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Old 02-25-2021, 07:43 PM   #46
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IS-F was heavy and had an engine that needed to rev out mated to a transmission that wasn't as sharp as a dual clutch with nannies that didn't want to go away in a package that made people look at something else instead...

Oh wait that's the RC-F.
The RC-F Track Edition seems to get great reviews, but you have to really like the RCF to pay $97k.

They should cut out some of the high cost items like the carbon fiber roof to get that price down.
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Old 02-26-2021, 01:28 AM   #47
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I think it's better that it's a IS500 instead of IS-F. Test drove an IS-F and it was very bipolar which made it kind of pointless to me. Most of the time the drivetrain was trying to be luxury car quiet and refined and you could only enjoy the v8 soundtrack if you were aggressive enough to get it in the upper RPMs.

I have a current gen IS and the biggest problem with Toyota/Lexus is the crap electronics calibration. Because of the "unintended acceleration" lawsuits off the line response is tuned to non existent. My car has 3 drive modes and they are all garbage if you compare to what the Germans offer. I gave up and use ECO since it's always going to try to drop into Atkinson cycle anyway for MPG. Same for traction and stability control; no progressive interference, just straight to a limp mode sensation. The 8 speed is decent, but I'll keep yearning for a DCT from the Golf R I test drove that was super quick, crisp, and had telepathic downshifts.

Build quality is impressive and the hardware is good enough: reliable but definitely not class leading by #s which is why you buy Lexus anyway. My car has the 1st refresh chassis updates which were quite extensive. With all the changes made for the 2nd refresh the platform should definitely still be very relevant. Will be interesting to see what type of suspension calibration they give this car.
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Old 02-26-2021, 08:43 AM   #48
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Used 320i sport 6mT?

I'm a little pickier, want a V8, or at least a sweet sounding turbo six.

I need 4 seats but don't really need 4 doors, so that opens it up to Mustangs and Challengers.
320i 6mt would work, if they made a newer one in 6mt, and if it had twice the horsepower, or it was half the weight.

When I bought the IS350 I was comparing it to a 6mt RWD 340i (among other things) it felt heavier because it was heavier, so the IS won. IF there had been a 340i 6mt RWD wagon, that would have won out though.

1hp:10lb is my ideal ratio, the IS is something like 1hp:11.5lbs which is "okay" an older 320i is like 1hp:18lbs which is a big ole no thanks.

I want a V8 but I want a lightweight chassis more than I want big power, considering the only way to get a V8 is in a 4,000lb+ chassis, I gave up some cylinders.

If it's an NA 4 it had better be sub 2,500lbs and be a really good NA 4; ND2 Miata is the only example I can think of on the market right now, but that doesn't work for obvious reasons.
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Old 02-26-2021, 10:40 AM   #49
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I think it's better that it's a IS500 instead of IS-F. Test drove an IS-F and it was very bipolar which made it kind of pointless to me. Most of the time the drivetrain was trying to be luxury car quiet and refined and you could only enjoy the v8 soundtrack if you were aggressive enough to get it in the upper RPMs.

I have a current gen IS and the biggest problem with Toyota/Lexus is the crap electronics calibration. Because of the "unintended acceleration" lawsuits off the line response is tuned to non existent. My car has 3 drive modes and they are all garbage if you compare to what the Germans offer. I gave up and use ECO since it's always going to try to drop into Atkinson cycle anyway for MPG. Same for traction and stability control; no progressive interference, just straight to a limp mode sensation. The 8 speed is decent, but I'll keep yearning for a DCT from the Golf R I test drove that was super quick, crisp, and had telepathic downshifts.

Build quality is impressive and the hardware is good enough: reliable but definitely not class leading by #s which is why you buy Lexus anyway. My car has the 1st refresh chassis updates which were quite extensive. With all the changes made for the 2nd refresh the platform should definitely still be very relevant. Will be interesting to see what type of suspension calibration they give this car.

Good info on the electronics. This is one of the main reasons I ditched my Q50s. The traction control was so intrusive you couldn't have any fun with it. The transmission tuning was the other reason. Same transmission as what they had in the G37 (which I liked) but they tuned it for old timers and smoothness, not to be engaging.
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Old 02-26-2021, 02:40 PM   #50
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I think it's better that it's a IS500 instead of IS-F. Test drove an IS-F and it was very bipolar which made it kind of pointless to me. Most of the time the drivetrain was trying to be luxury car quiet and refined and you could only enjoy the v8 soundtrack if you were aggressive enough to get it in the upper RPMs.

I have a current gen IS and the biggest problem with Toyota/Lexus is the crap electronics calibration. Because of the "unintended acceleration" lawsuits off the line response is tuned to non existent. My car has 3 drive modes and they are all garbage if you compare to what the Germans offer. I gave up and use ECO since it's always going to try to drop into Atkinson cycle anyway for MPG. Same for traction and stability control; no progressive interference, just straight to a limp mode sensation. The 8 speed is decent, but I'll keep yearning for a DCT from the Golf R I test drove that was super quick, crisp, and had telepathic downshifts.

Build quality is impressive and the hardware is good enough: reliable but definitely not class leading by #s which is why you buy Lexus anyway. My car has the 1st refresh chassis updates which were quite extensive. With all the changes made for the 2nd refresh the platform should definitely still be very relevant. Will be interesting to see what type of suspension calibration they give this car.
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Good info on the electronics. This is one of the main reasons I ditched my Q50s. The traction control was so intrusive you couldn't have any fun with it. The transmission tuning was the other reason. Same transmission as what they had in the G37 (which I liked) but they tuned it for old timers and smoothness, not to be engaging.
I own a RWD IS350 F-sport, I turn off the nannies before I drive, otherwise it's aggressively overprotective, I pretty much only turn them on when I want cruise control to work, (because with the nannies off, it doesn't) I'm typically in manual mode & S#, or auto & eco. Even with the nannies "off" they will still intervene to an extent. Hypothetical example: (VSC & TC off, S#, in Manual mode).
If you are, lets say, sideways in 2nd gear on a long corner at about 75%-80% steering angle & WOT, and bounce off the rev limiter too many times, the throttle will pull back to ~50% even though you are still at WOT. The way to combat this is to either release the throttle and go back to WOT, or to initiate the drift in 2nd, shift to 3rd before redline and feather the throttle to keep the engine in the 6,000-6,500 range. A similar situation happens if you are accelerating and kiss the rev limiter too many times (I think it's three bounces), it will cut throttle to ~50% until you reset it by releasing momentarily and resuming WOT.

For S***s & Giggles I went out in a snowstorm last week, left the nannies on and tried to do stupid s***, like mashing the throttle to the floor & holding it, cutting the wheel, hard, while driving, stuff like that; it's amazing how intrusive the nannies are. TC & VSC immediately kick in, but the throttle also gets reduced to almost nothing at full throttle, basically gives you as much throttle as there is available traction, to the point where I'd be impressed if someone managed to crash one of these driving normally (EG not tryin to do a top speed run on the highway or going 80 in a 30 on backroads).

Beyond that, there is a "snow mode" button, which starts the car off in second; guess what, if ABS activates while you are stopping, whether the nannies are on or off, whether you are in manual or auto mode, and regardless of drive mode (eco, normal, S, S#) you do not get first gear, the ECU just flips you the bird via the in dash display and gives you second.

ThInGs YoU fInD oUt AfTeR oWnInG a CaR fOr A yEaR...

**Tests were performed on private property, do not attempt on public roads.**
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