Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Monday March 1, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-22-2021, 08:50 PM   #201
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default

Infinite as in can't be rebuilt or upgraded must be replaced infinite?
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 02-22-2021, 08:56 PM   #202
neg_matnik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132389
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Would you mind giving a little mechanical school on this? Isn't a CVT "infinite" ratios?


I'm not arguing for or against. Just understood that the "benefit" of a CVT WAS because of the "infinite" aspect of it.
Gear spread here means lowest possible (numerically highest) ratio divided by highest possible ratio (numerically lowest).
So, yes, there are an infinite number of ratios; but the tranny is still bound by its highest and lowest ratios.

EDIT: adding some examples
ZF 8HP: lowest 4.714:1, highest 0.666:1, spread 7.14 --> nice
Tremec DCT: lowest 2.91. highest 0.33, spread 8.18 --> better
CVT: I think it's around 6.32, it's OK but not great

Last edited by neg_matnik; 02-22-2021 at 09:06 PM.
neg_matnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 09:18 PM   #203
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Whitinsville, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

But that's where Subaru shines best: Adequate!
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 09:38 PM   #204
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
But that's where Subaru shines best: Adequate!
Adequate, but with AWD should be Subaruís motto.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 09:42 PM   #205
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Whitinsville, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

Subaru: Adequate + AWD. Confidence in Motion. Love.
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 10:02 PM   #206
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
08 Impreza,80Vette
68 Impala, 15 SantaFe

Default

Adequate In Motion.
subyski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 10:03 PM   #207
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Whitinsville, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

Actually lol'd
chanomatik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 10:08 PM   #208
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

What we really need about now is a salesman to pop in here to tell us how much all the old people who buy Subarus love them.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 10:13 PM   #209
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
95 Sambar 06 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Gear spread here means lowest possible (numerically highest) ratio divided by highest possible ratio (numerically lowest).
So, yes, there are an infinite number of ratios; but the tranny is still bound by its highest and lowest ratios.

EDIT: adding some examples
ZF 8HP: lowest 4.714:1, highest 0.666:1, spread 7.14 --> nice
Tremec DCT: lowest 2.91. highest 0.33, spread 8.18 --> better
CVT: I think it's around 6.32, it's OK but not great



Thanks.




Now, could it be possible to increase that spread in a CVT?
JustyWRC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 10:53 PM   #210
neg_matnik
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 132389
Join Date: Nov 2006
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: SF Bay Area
Default

First, I need to correct the numbers for the CVT. Looks like Ascent HTCVT ratio spread is better than I quoted:
- highest is 3.227:1 and lowest is 0.467:1, spread comes out to 6.91. Not bad, IMO.
So, to Subaru's credit, their engineers have been increasing gear ratio spread over time.
But, overall, the planetary geared auto still have a better ratio spread and a larger torque capacity as well *while* minimizing steps between gears (we're up to 10-speed autos now).
Just looked at Honda's 10-speed auto ratios and it's nuts:
1st is 5.246:1 and 2nd is 3.271, 9th is 0.581, 10th is 0.517, the spread is whopping 10.14 !
The HTCVT lowest ratio is Honda's 10-speed 2nd ratio. From a standstill that makes a huge difference.
neg_matnik is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 11:27 PM   #211
subyski
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 202642
Join Date: Nov 2007
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Vehicle:
08 Impreza,80Vette
68 Impala, 15 SantaFe

Default

What if Subaru implements a first gear or launch gear like Toyota uses in their Direct Shift CVT? Granted, Toyota only uses this in lower torque applications, but they claim a 15% increase in ratio spread over a conventional CVT.
subyski is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2021, 11:30 PM   #212
dwf137
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 161333
Join Date: Oct 2007
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Seattle
Vehicle:
18 Highlander
Yami XSR

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
Subaru: Adequate + AWD. Confidence in Motion. Love.
and dogs. don't forget the dogs. because millennials think dogs are kids.
dwf137 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 08:43 AM   #213
Sid03SVT
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:
RWD Camry
Pull me over red

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwf137 View Post
and dogs. don't forget the dogs. because millennials think dogs are kids.
As someone with two kids, that comparison always pisses me off. Mind you, I wouldn't wish kids on anyone; that's not a financial decision someone should be allowed to make for you.

If I didn't have kids, I certainly wouldn't have dogs, I would have more cars, and too many motorcycles, which is the right amount of motorcycles.
Sid03SVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 09:37 AM   #214
b4wantab
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21293
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Oak Park, IL
Vehicle:
05 OB Black Bean
1969 W-30

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Gear spread here means lowest possible (numerically highest) ratio divided by highest possible ratio (numerically lowest).
So, yes, there are an infinite number of ratios; but the tranny is still bound by its highest and lowest ratios.

EDIT: adding some examples
ZF 8HP: lowest 4.714:1, highest 0.666:1, spread 7.14 --> nice
Tremec DCT: lowest 2.91. highest 0.33, spread 8.18 --> better
CVT: I think it's around 6.32, it's OK but not great
Correct. However I donít remember FHI getting the spread above 6. With Subaruís drivetrain layout the pulley can only be so big. Subaru has increased the spread over time. I remember the first gen being in the 5:1 range. Subaru brought the manufacturing and design in-house probably because LUX didnít agree on some of the design compromises FHI were making. Who really knows.

Regardless, when the engine is at a constant speed and the speed of the vehicle is changing the trans is slipping. It is a controlled slip but is still wasting energy and power. Audi abandoned the same trans design from the same manufacturer after a year or two. A DCT was much more efficient. Subaru mpg has gone up because they have tunes the engines to run lean. That is why every Subaru has a guzzler tax in Europe. Donít confuse mpg with clean environmentally sound engineering.

Peace,

Greg
b4wantab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 10:13 AM   #215
pronkie1
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 451734
Join Date: Jul 2016
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: Camarillo CA
Vehicle:
2016 Legacy 2.5
Lapis Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformatt View Post
How do you tell whether the car has a CVT or an automatic by looking at a picture of the interior?



Look at the the pedal setup and shifter...Only two pedals and a foot rest pedal...Shifter is not manual..No shifter boot like on a manual....
pronkie1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 10:29 AM   #216
cbk57
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 438759
Join Date: Jan 2016
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Altoona, Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza WRX
Charcoal Grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
What we really need about now is a salesman to pop in here to tell us how much all the old people who buy Subarus love them.
Don:t even need a salesperson, my wife swears Subarus are the greatest cars ever made. It surprises me how many people on this forum seem to not like Subarus, and being a Subaru forum I find it really amusing. I like them, I am a bit more objective, best probably goes to Honda or Toyota take your pick. I like Subarus though, I think they are good for purpose with a reasonable price.

My guess is people get a bit jaded anymore, and expect a Lexus for 20,000.00 when they buy a Subaru. Ours have been reliable, and for what they cost, we have been happy with them. Others experiences may differ. My expectations from our cars would be a lot different if we were spending twice as much money on them, or even a third more money.

If I expected complete perfection I would probably buy Honda or Toyota, we have had both at one time or the other, they are great cars. However, I like other attributes of Subaru and so we have gravitated there in recent years. I like the all wheel drive, for a commuter car, I like the CVT. I don:t have a long commute anymore so I went with an older WRX, however I liked my Impreza. My Impreza faithfully did its job every day for 5 years which meets my typical expectation for my car Ownership. I really like my WRX, it is older, simpler than the current cars, that appeals to me now.

Last edited by cbk57; 02-23-2021 at 10:39 AM.
cbk57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 11:51 AM   #217
Pre
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbk57 View Post
Don:t even need a salesperson, my wife swears Subarus are the greatest cars ever made. It surprises me how many people on this forum seem to not like Subarus, and being a Subaru forum I find it really amusing. I like them, I am a bit more objective, best probably goes to Honda or Toyota take your pick. I like Subarus though, I think they are good for purpose with a reasonable price.

My guess is people get a bit jaded anymore, and expect a Lexus for 20,000.00 when they buy a Subaru. Ours have been reliable, and for what they cost, we have been happy with them. Others experiences may differ. My expectations from our cars would be a lot different if we were spending twice as much money on them, or even a third more money.

If I expected complete perfection I would probably buy Honda or Toyota, we have had both at one time or the other, they are great cars. However, I like other attributes of Subaru and so we have gravitated there in recent years. I like the all wheel drive, for a commuter car, I like the CVT. I don:t have a long commute anymore so I went with an older WRX, however I liked my Impreza. My Impreza faithfully did its job every day for 5 years which meets my typical expectation for my car Ownership. I really like my WRX, it is older, simpler than the current cars, that appeals to me now.
Are you done crying yet because others don't share your opinion? These folks you are ragging on, ARE objective, which is why they have gone to other manus with their dollars and purchases. Not everyone is a minion or sycophant.

The CVT is a crap transmission, period. Subaru has enough recalls and repairs to fill a damn book at this point on them. For me it's a transmission that is just a deal breaker, period.

Subaru has also gone very vanilla in their product offerings. Many previous owners are still here, for N&R, primarily. It's a good car news section for any enthusiast forum out there. But Subaru has axed many models that had cult like followings. Legacy GT. Legacy Wagon. 5 door WRX. 5 door STi. Turbo Forester. If they still had a FI'd Forester, you'd have more enthusiastic owners here. Same for a 5 door WRX. What they are offering across the lineup is anemic N/A vanilla machines instead. This is an enthusiast forum more geared towards performance machines not vanilla toasters.

In the meantime, other manus have progressed with power levels for enthusiast vehicles and made advancements that Subaru has not. Subaru to this day is using a 30 year old engine in the STi. Other manus have also started to offer AWD, then offer even better AWD systems. I mean it's bad enough that my AWD Honda truck has a better AWD system than anything Subaru makes, sans the STi, and it's a damn truck. Subaru is no longer the only AWD manu out there. If Subaru offered a non-CVT transmission in the 2.4L DIT Outback, I may very well have that in my driveway instead of the truck. Oh wait, scratch that, I loathe the iPad too.

If Subaru pulls their head out of their asses, they'd realize they have dropped a lot of long time customers in favor of the new vanilla crackers out there. If they would migrate from CVT to ZF or another automatic transmission, maybe some will come back for pedestrian vehicles. I have talked to many people who have left for AWD Honda Passports, Ridgelines and many others for FoRS, Golf R's. Some of us are waiting for the new BRZ, new WRX, STI, and this rumored hot hatch collaboration between Toyota and Subaru. We want to love Subaru again but Subaru has continually pushed us away.

I, like others, have no allegiance to any corporation. Corporations don't pay my bills. And I'm not giving anyone tens of thousands of dollars unless they make exactly what I want, make it reliable, etc.
Pre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 11:57 AM   #218
bugatti0628
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 447323
Join Date: May 2016
Default

https://bestcarweb.jp/news/scoop/250579
we have a little more information and some additional pictures at this link for the new wrx
bugatti0628 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 12:04 PM   #219
Reformatt
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 376284
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: Cincinnati
Vehicle:
2004 Rx-8 Grey Sold
'15 CWP Limited

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pronkie1 View Post
Look at the the pedal setup and shifter...Only two pedals and a foot rest pedal...Shifter is not manual..No shifter boot like on a manual....
Read what i said again, auto vs CVT... of course it has 2 pedals, both of those have 2 pedals. a manual has 3 pedals...
Reformatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 12:05 PM   #220
car_freak85
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 13530
Join Date: Dec 2001
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Cascadia
Vehicle:
EA63 , EA81T, EJ20G,
EJ205

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Are you done crying yet because others don't share your opinion? These folks you are ragging on, ARE objective, which is why they have gone to other manus with their dollars and purchases. Not everyone is a minion or sycophant.

The CVT is a crap transmission, period. Subaru has enough recalls and repairs to fill a damn book at this point on them. For me it's a transmission that is just a deal breaker, period.

Subaru has also gone very vanilla in their product offerings. Many previous owners are still here, for N&R, primarily. It's a good car news section for any enthusiast forum out there. But Subaru has axed many models that had cult like followings. Legacy GT. Legacy Wagon. 5 door WRX. 5 door STi. Turbo Forester. If they still had a FI'd Forester, you'd have more enthusiastic owners here. Same for a 5 door WRX. What they are offering across the lineup is anemic N/A vanilla machines instead. This is an enthusiast forum more geared towards performance machines not vanilla toasters.

In the meantime, other manus have progressed with power levels for enthusiast vehicles and made advancements that Subaru has not. Subaru to this day is using a 30 year old engine in the STi. Other manus have also started to offer AWD, then offer even better AWD systems. I mean it's bad enough that my AWD Honda truck has a better AWD system than anything Subaru makes, sans the STi, and it's a damn truck. Subaru is no longer the only AWD manu out there. If Subaru offered a non-CVT transmission in the 2.4L DIT Outback, I may very well have that in my driveway instead of the truck. Oh wait, scratch that, I loathe the iPad too.

If Subaru pulls their head out of their asses, they'd realize they have dropped a lot of long time customers in favor of the new vanilla crackers out there. If they would migrate from CVT to ZF or another automatic transmission, maybe some will come back for pedestrian vehicles. I have talked to many people who have left for AWD Honda Passports, Ridgelines and many others for FoRS, Golf R's. Some of us are waiting for the new BRZ, new WRX, STI, and this rumored hot hatch collaboration between Toyota and Subaru. We want to love Subaru again but Subaru has continually pushed us away.

I, like others, have no allegiance to any corporation. Corporations don't pay my bills. And I'm not giving anyone tens of thousands of dollars unless they make exactly what I want, make it reliable, etc.
Hit the nail on the head.
car_freak85 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 12:10 PM   #221
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: por\\and
Vehicle:
V^V justrememberall
capswhenuspellyomansname

Default







Quote:
Since the WRX is a 4-door sedan, I'm concerned about the rear section, but the shape of the C-pillar and the line leading to the boot lid can be said to be the VIZIV performance concept itself. Also, sharp and sharp lines. Of course, unlike the concept model, there is no large rear spoiler or diffuser, but the shape that efficiently sucks out the air flowing under the floor under the bumper is the concept model. Based on the diffuser, I felt that it was arranged in a shape suitable for a commercial model, "continues the testimony.

It is information that the body size is about 4650 in length x 1805 in width x 1450 mm in height. Since the total width of the new Levorg is 1795mm, the WRX will be about 10mm wider, which depends on the shape of the fender flare. The overall height is about 50mm lower, which is probably due to the difference in suspension. The wheelbase is 2670mm, which is the same as the Levorg. Compared to the current WRX S4, the overall length is increased by 55 mm, but this is also due to the influence of the wheelbase extended by 20 mm.

More powerful and better quality! 2.4L direct injection turbo demonstrates 290ps

And the engine information was also grasped by this magazine scoop team.
According to the information so far, there is no doubt that the Ascent for North America and the horizontally opposed 4-cylinder 2.4L engine to be installed in the next BRZ will be installed as a direct injection turbo engine.
This FA24 turbo will be installed not only in the S4 but also in the new WRX STI, which is scheduled to appear in 2022 later.
4S-TURBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 12:27 PM   #222
cbk57
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 438759
Join Date: Jan 2016
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Altoona, Pennsylvania
Vehicle:
2013 Impreza WRX
Charcoal Grey

Default

My input has been misunderstood, I will defer to those above who have more experience than I with this forum. I am very interested in where the next WRX goes.

Last edited by cbk57; 02-23-2021 at 12:35 PM.
cbk57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 12:52 PM   #223
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Those rear haunches look pretty good and muscular, but the front fenders are pretty anemic. Hopefully the STI doesn't look like that with a big wing and a different front bumper.

Also, this is disappointing: "the overall length is increased by 55 mm, but this is also due to the influence of the wheelbase extended by 20 mm."

It was already long nosed. No need to make it even longer on the new one.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 12:55 PM   #224
heavyD
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 194216
Join Date: Nov 2008
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Vehicle:
2020 X3M Competition

Default

IMO the car above looks very good outside of the wheel arches.
heavyD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2021, 01:03 PM   #225
JP Chestnut
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 504432
Join Date: Jul 2019
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavyD View Post
IMO the car above looks very good outside of the wheel arches.
I think everything aft of the front doors looks really nice. I hope it looks like that.
JP Chestnut is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:54 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.