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Old 02-21-2021, 12:07 AM   #26
Blitzkrieg
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It sounds like a small percentage of homeowners are going to get a massive bill because of this too.
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reap what you sow... How's that deregulation working?
The only downside to deregulation is the so called cheap option of selecting a variable rate. Those that chose that stupid option are getting bit in the behind. If your locked in a low rate, your safe but those precious souls who chose otherwise are crashing hard core. Sadly some of their bills are astronomical.

I don't blame the green energy but I'm angry with the miss management of the grid. Without real data of what went wrong. I can't really take a stance on who screwed up, or bashing Texas for an independent grid. Maybe that's the new American way of crapping on people with no real data to backup your opinion. The news is just so hungry for blood lately its pathetic and its toxic for our nation as a whole.

Anyways... My family survived just fine even with the cold weather and no electricity. Granted I have a gas fireplace/water heater and a foot and half blown insulation in the attic. The blackouts where just odd as some cities survived with no loss and a neighboring city just fell flat on their face.
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Old 02-21-2021, 01:00 AM   #27
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I can't really take a stance on who screwed up, or bashing Texas for an independent grid. Maybe that's the new American way of crapping on people with no real data to backup your opinion. The news is just so hungry for blood lately its pathetic and its toxic for our nation as a whole.
That would be a valid argument if this was the first time this has happened, but it's not. This is the 3rd time in roughly 30 years. This time was excacerbated by the duration of situation. The last time it happened in 2011, ERCOT was supposed to get its act together. Unfortunately, everything agreed upon has gone unenforced in the name of the Almighty Dollar.
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Old 02-21-2021, 05:46 PM   #28
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Default Texas Freeze Raises Cost Of Charging A Tesla To $900

Texas Freeze Raises Cost Of Charging A Tesla To $900


The electricity shortage in Texas amid the cold snap has sent spot electricity prices soaring so much that the surge in power prices equals a cost of $900 for charging a Tesla.

The typical full charge of a Tesla costs around $18 using a Level 1 or Level 2 charger at home, according to estimates from The Drive. This estimate is based on an average price of $0.14 per kWh of power.

However, the extreme winter weather this week has sent Texas spot electricity prices soaring, as the wind turbines froze in the ice storms and reduced the wind power generating capacity in the Lone Star State by half.

Spot electricity prices at the West hub have soared above the grid’s $9,000 per megawatt-hour cap, compared to a ‘normal’ price of $25 per megawatt-hour, FOX Business notes.

The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) called early on Monday for rotating outages across the state as extreme winter weather forced wind power generating units offline, while electricity demand set a new winter peak record.

At the same time, freezing cold and ice storms cut offline almost half of the wind power capacity in Texas.

“We are dealing with higher-than-normal generation outages due to frozen wind turbines and limited natural gas supplies available to generating units,” ERCOT said.

In Texas, wind power generation overtook coal-fired generation in 2020 for the first time ever, with wind power now accounting for 25 percent of the Texas electricity generation. Natural gas-fired power generation is the leading source of electricity in Texas, with more than 45 percent share.

While oil-and-gas rich Texas is the leading U.S. state for wind power installations, the frozen turbines in the Arctic weather have strained the grid so much that rolling outages in Texas continue for a second consecutive day.

“The wind-dependent Texas grid is experiencing rolling blackouts, prices the equivalent of $900 per Tesla charge, and an expected supply shortage of 10 GW--the amount of electricity needed to power 5 million homes,” Alex Epstein, Founder of Center for Industrial Progress, tweeted today.

Meanwhile, ERCOT’s Senior Director of System Operations, Dan Woodfin, said on Tuesday morning that “The number of controlled outages we have to do remains high. We are optimistic that we will be able to reduce the number throughout the day.”
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Old 02-21-2021, 07:01 PM   #29
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Texas Freeze Raises Cost Of Charging A Tesla To $900


The electricity shortage in Texas amid the cold snap has sent spot electricity prices soaring so much that the surge in power prices equals a cost of $900 for charging a Tesla.

The typical full charge of a Tesla costs around $18 using a Level 1 or Level 2 charger at home, according to estimates from The Drive. This estimate is based on an average price of $0.14 per kWh of power.

However, the extreme winter weather this week has sent Texas spot electricity prices soaring, as the wind turbines froze in the ice storms and reduced the wind power generating capacity in the Lone Star State by half.

Spot electricity prices at the West hub have soared above the grid’s $9,000 per megawatt-hour cap, compared to a ‘normal’ price of $25 per megawatt-hour, FOX Business notes.

The Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) called early on Monday for rotating outages across the state as extreme winter weather forced wind power generating units offline, while electricity demand set a new winter peak record.

At the same time, freezing cold and ice storms cut offline almost half of the wind power capacity in Texas.

“We are dealing with higher-than-normal generation outages due to frozen wind turbines and limited natural gas supplies available to generating units,” ERCOT said.

In Texas, wind power generation overtook coal-fired generation in 2020 for the first time ever, with wind power now accounting for 25 percent of the Texas electricity generation. Natural gas-fired power generation is the leading source of electricity in Texas, with more than 45 percent share.

While oil-and-gas rich Texas is the leading U.S. state for wind power installations, the frozen turbines in the Arctic weather have strained the grid so much that rolling outages in Texas continue for a second consecutive day.

“The wind-dependent Texas grid is experiencing rolling blackouts, prices the equivalent of $900 per Tesla charge, and an expected supply shortage of 10 GW--the amount of electricity needed to power 5 million homes,” Alex Epstein, Founder of Center for Industrial Progress, tweeted today.

Meanwhile, ERCOT’s Senior Director of System Operations, Dan Woodfin, said on Tuesday morning that “The number of controlled outages we have to do remains high. We are optimistic that we will be able to reduce the number throughout the day.”
Why not post the clickbait source? Gobble up that propaganda.

Oil Price Dot Com...
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...la-To-900.html


ERCOT's PR machine is working overtime to pin the issue on windmills. The grid's failure issues were there before Texas proliferated wind power. The dang windmills over performed their expectation during the freeze compared to the coal/gas/nuclear sourced power...but it doesn't matter what the source was. Every single one of them failed. Why? Because money went into pockets instead of making sure the grid could handle the weather Texas anticipates having periodically. Privatizing is supposed to cut the red tape and supply better or equitable services faster and for less $ than regulated ones. Instead, the rich got richer at the extreme detriment of the people they should have been serving.
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Old 02-22-2021, 07:52 AM   #30
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Default What The Media Isn’t Telling You About Texas Blackouts

Unprecedented winter storms hit Texas. The electricity grid cannot deal with excess of demand over supply. Prices soar. Rolling blackouts. Expect more says the grid operator. What the stories do not say is that Texas, long ago, cut itself off from the interties to the rest of the country that might have provided some aid in a time of extreme distress. Texas might as well, electrically speaking, be an island in the middle of the Pacific.

So, let's skip the discussion about the arctic temperatures affecting the US as far south as Texas. Let's focus instead on the fact that Texas, unlike every other state in the lower forty eight, comprises its own power grid called, ERCOT, the Electric Reliability Council of Texas. And the ERCOT grid is managed by a state agency of the same name. But why?

Trying to condense 140 years of electric utility history is daunting but we believe the key here is state's rights. This relies on the key distinction between intra-state and inter-state activities. Federal jurisdiction over commercial activities are generally limited to interstate commerce or "commerce among the several states" in the original language of the Constitution. The Federal Power Act, granting federal authority to build, own and operate electric infrastructure, was passed by Congress in 1934. At the same time a new federal administrative body was created, predecessor of our current FERC, to regulate interstate (or today we would say wholesale) electricity transactions.

The ERCOT electric system is designed, apart from its other myriad functions, to evade federal jurisdiction. Period, full stop. One relatively recent irony here is that the FERC has been extremely generous in awarding above market authorized returns on equity for its utilities as well as in other policy areas. From an investor owned utility executive's perspective, this is like chaining yourself to the couch while the free money truck rolls past your house distributing largesse. In all fairness there was no way to know a Rooseveltian "tiger" would become a policy "pussycat" although it didn't actually begin to happen until Eisenhower's first administration almost twenty years to the day later.

So in order to circumvent federal jurisdiction, in favor of presumably more favorable state utility regulation, the state intentionally became an "island" with respect to electrical connectivity with the rest of the country. At the time this made sense. Texas had all the scale and commodity infrastructure suitable for making electricity: oil, coal, lignite as then later natural gas.

Related Video: Texas Freeze Takes 1.2 Million Bpd Of Oil Offline

We have no desire to engage in debate about the wisdom of this interconnection "islanding" policy. It reflects a policy choice.

Going forward the interesting question is not what to do but what will the climate look like? The present dilemma this week is a potential shortage of electrical power due to extreme cold weather. But from a perspective of extreme weather events, we see a growing prevalence of heat extremes versus cold weather extremes. In other words, building up capacity reserves for summer air conditioning loads (Austin for example was routinely over 100 degrees last summer) has been more vital than wintertime heating demand-until now. Other electric systems can access reserves from places with different demand patterns (and climate). That allows them to keep lower reserves locally. Not so with Texas.

We will conclude with the idea of insurance. An electrical system conceptually resembles an insurance policy. Both ask the same basic question: "how much are policyholders or electricity users willing to pay against the chance of some adverse outcome?" How much extra are they willing to pay for political independence? There are differing, valid answers to these questions. Our point here today is simply that Texas from a wholesale electricity perspective is truly the "lone star state".

By Leonard Hyman and William Tilles for Oilprice.com

https://oilprice.com/Alternative-Ene...Investors.html

Last edited by AVANTI R5; 02-22-2021 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 02-22-2021, 08:53 AM   #31
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Texas + Deregulated Utility = Enron&ERCOT
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:56 AM   #32
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Why not post the clickbait source? Gobble up that propaganda.

Oil Price Dot Com...
https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-G...la-To-900.html


ERCOT's PR machine is working overtime to pin the issue on windmills. The grid's failure issues were there before Texas proliferated wind power. The dang windmills over performed their expectation during the freeze compared to the coal/gas/nuclear sourced power...but it doesn't matter what the source was. Every single one of them failed. Why? Because money went into pockets instead of making sure the grid could handle the weather Texas anticipates having periodically. Privatizing is supposed to cut the red tape and supply better or equitable services faster and for less $ than regulated ones. Instead, the rich got richer at the extreme detriment of the people they should have been serving.
And the green propaganda machine and people like you are trying to pin it on Natural Gas. Which is hilarious because NG is the only thing that kept kept the lights on. Had this been snow, versus ice, it would not have been so bad. Icy roads really hurt us. We are in no way able to handle that here in Texas, full stop. It really slowed down all the repair equipment and brave linemen who wanted to go out and help fix issues but could not. We have had 19 degree weather and colder in Texas but I do not recall ever getting freezing Ice in such quantities. Must be all that global warming.

Fact is it is mostly over. And this will fade away. Will people get fired? Not sure. There is already a class action lawsuit started against those extravagant bills, and I am sure they will win. But that will take a LONG time unfortunately.

I appreciate your concern. But like always Texas will be fine, politics be darned. Perhaps if all the people fleeing California would stop buying McMansions when they come here we would not need so much extra energy...
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Old 02-22-2021, 12:45 PM   #33
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And the green propaganda machine and people like you are trying to pin it on Natural Gas.
The numbers point to NG being a big issue. NG was producing 24 billion ft2 before the storm, and that dropped to 12 billion ft2 because lines and pumps froze. Can you explain how that's not a huge contributor to the issues?

Last edited by dwf137; 02-22-2021 at 12:57 PM. Reason: less argumentative.
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:01 PM   #34
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expect EVs to jump in price too, Copper has gone from $1.60 to now over $4.10 last I checked, Lumber and wood tippled since Dec. I guess they are getting that inflation Fed Res trying for
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Old 02-22-2021, 01:09 PM   #35
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And the green propaganda machine and people like you are trying to pin it on Natural Gas. Which is hilarious because NG is the only thing that kept kept the lights on. Had this been snow, versus ice, it would not have been so bad. Icy roads really hurt us. We are in no way able to handle that here in Texas, full stop. It really slowed down all the repair equipment and brave linemen who wanted to go out and help fix issues but could not. We have had 19 degree weather and colder in Texas but I do not recall ever getting freezing Ice in such quantities. Must be all that global warming.

Fact is it is mostly over. And this will fade away. Will people get fired? Not sure. There is already a class action lawsuit started against those extravagant bills, and I am sure they will win. But that will take a LONG time unfortunately.

I appreciate your concern. But like always Texas will be fine, politics be darned. Perhaps if all the people fleeing California would stop buying McMansions when they come here we would not need so much extra energy...

The reality is like SoDealer stated......the deregulation failed in TX, period. The state agency did not push these "independent" power suppliers to winterize. The Feds warned them the last time, with what a 200 page study to winterize their s**t. They chose not to do it, and line their pockets instead. 10 years later, bam. The weather was not the cause of this, it was a bunch of cheap ass companies who refused to invest properly, in weatherization of their equipment. They have windmills and solar up north where these cold temps are regular and they have no such issues there. So this blame game that Ercot is doing is State regulation failed, these companies failed, it certainly wasn't the weather. They had 10 full years to get this done and they did exactly zero.



Like many things in TX, it will be up to the citizens to sort this out themselves. I will have to spend many thousands of dollars before next winter to install whole home backup power via battery, generator, or both because I can no longer count on my state regulatory agencies nor the grip/power suppliers. I feel bad for the citizens who have thousands of dollars of repair bills. And I feel bad for all of us homeowners, who will have to foot the bill via homeowner insurance premium increases upon next renewal. The citizens will file homeowner claims, then the insurance companies will tax us all due to this fact. So the citizens have to foot the bill, yet again, due to the powers that be. It sucks.
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Old 02-22-2021, 02:31 PM   #36
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The numbers point to NG being a big issue. NG was producing 24 billion ft2 before the storm, and that dropped to 12 billion ft2 because lines and pumps froze. Can you explain how that's not a huge contributor to the issues?
Actually, production always drops in winter dramatically. We close down like 25% of the NG plants for maintenance every single year, every year. Normal Electricity draw is far less in winter than September AC draw. Not a single black out all year for as long as I have lived here. This storm just caught us with our pants down.I am sure some water lines froze going to some of the plants. I would wager that some of that is being fixed now.

NO worries. I will take deregulation any day. Seems the people who complain about it most do not even live here.

Things are fine. If it gets bad enough, the market will fix it. Or people will plan accordingly.
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Old 02-22-2021, 03:41 PM   #37
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Actually, production always drops in winter dramatically. We close down like 25% of the NG plants for maintenance every single year, every year. Normal Electricity draw is far less in winter than September AC draw. Not a single black out all year for as long as I have lived here. This storm just caught us with our pants down.I am sure some water lines froze going to some of the plants. I would wager that some of that is being fixed now.

NO worries. I will take deregulation any day. Seems the people who complain about it most do not even live here.

Things are fine. If it gets bad enough, the market will fix it. Or people will plan accordingly.
The numbers I posted are wintertime production numbers. Literally from early in February 2021, before the storm hit.

The people complaining about it are paying tax dollars for federal aid to be sent to Texas because of the mismanagement. They're donating millions of dollars to help pay. Because people are unnecessarily dying. I'm sure all the conservatives in Texas are happy to accept AOC's 5 million dollars in aid.

Really hope the family of the 11 year old boy who froze to death wins their lawsuit against the power companies. Clear mismanagement. Negligent homicide. They were informed in 2011 that they needed to winterize their systems, and they didn't because profit was better. This was completely avoidable.
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Old 02-22-2021, 04:02 PM   #38
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The numbers point to NG being a big issue. NG was producing 24 billion ft2 before the storm, and that dropped to 12 billion ft2 because lines and pumps froze. Can you explain how that's not a huge contributor to the issues?
It doesn’t feel right.
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Old 02-22-2021, 09:30 PM   #39
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The numbers I posted are wintertime production numbers. Literally from early in February 2021, before the storm hit.

The people complaining about it are paying tax dollars for federal aid to be sent to Texas because of the mismanagement. They're donating millions of dollars to help pay. Because people are unnecessarily dying. I'm sure all the conservatives in Texas are happy to accept AOC's 5 million dollars in aid.

Really hope the family of the 11 year old boy who froze to death wins their lawsuit against the power companies. Clear mismanagement. Negligent homicide. They were informed in 2011 that they needed to winterize their systems, and they didn't because profit was better. This was completely avoidable.
The people that profit off of cutting corners will continue to do so because people like Scrappy are willing to take bullets for them to continue exploiting people like Scrappy. It's a sad situation. Stop try to defend the indefensible.
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Old 02-22-2021, 10:33 PM   #40
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NO worries. I will take deregulation any day. Seems the people who complain about it most do not even live here.

Things are fine. If it gets bad enough, the market will fix it. Or people will plan accordingly.
When California deregulated about 20 years ago, it didn't last long.
Regular rolling blackouts in the summertime.

I had to look up the Wiki on it, but prices not withstanding...

Deregulation didn't workout well here.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000**...tricity_crisis


Quote:
The 2000-01 California electricity crisis, also known as the Western U.S. energy crisis of 2000 and 2001, was a situation in which the U.S. state of California had a shortage of electricity supply caused by market manipulations and capped retail electricity prices.[5] The state suffered from multiple large-scale blackouts, one of the state's largest energy companies collapsed, and the economic fall-out greatly harmed Governor Gray Davis's standing.

Drought, delays in approval of new power plants,[5]:109 and market manipulation decreased supply.[6] This caused an 800% increase in wholesale prices from April 2000 to December 2000.[7]:1 In addition, rolling blackouts adversely affected many businesses dependent upon a reliable supply of electricity, and inconvenienced many retail consumers.


Since I don't know the whole story, I am not defending deregulation.
It sounds like it wasn't planned out very well, however.


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Originally Posted by mhoward1
This whole fiasco will most like affect gas prices for the entire country. News is saying expect $2.80-$3 by last March.
Fantastic! I filled up on 87 octane for $3.69/gal last Friday.
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Old 02-22-2021, 10:50 PM   #41
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Let's not forget, ENRON was also an episode in deregulation. It's not even like Texas has super low rates or anything. Based on its rates vs. other states, the savings are clearly going into pockets as opposed to lower rates. It's definitely not going into the infrastructure.

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Things are fine.
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Old 02-22-2021, 11:32 PM   #42
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The people that profit off of cutting corners will continue to do so because people like Scrappy are willing to take bullets for them to continue exploiting people like Scrappy. It's a sad situation. Stop try to defend the indefensible.
truth.
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Old 02-23-2021, 10:16 AM   #43
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power utility co's are pretty much monopolies and while the names have changed those pole still in business. Younger here probably don't remember but evidence of unmaintained power lines in CA causing wold fires and whats happening in minor snow storm TX show nothing being done to make the single energy source up to date or viable as we enter the great EV world.
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Old 02-23-2021, 10:29 AM   #44
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There's a middle ground between very tightly controlling the power companies with Soviet style 5-year plans and having very few consumer protections or long term thinking.

Clearly there needs to be enough regulation to get the system there up to snuff for cold temperatures, maybe through a combination of winterizing, diversifying, and being able to get power from the other grids. That doesn't mean some of the unique features of the Texas power system have to be completely eliminated. There has to be a pragmatic way forward.

As for the locals who tapped into the wholesale markets - let's face it, these people were likely given a huge stack of disclosure documents and warnings that they didn't read or didn't understand. How financially literate is the general population? What % of people who signed up even know what the wholesale market is? How many people understand something as mundane as a mortgage or a car lease?

Sometimes you need to save people from themselves. We already do that in the financial industry. That's why individual investors without high net worths aren't allowed to buy in to private company like SpaceX.
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Old 02-23-2021, 06:07 PM   #45
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it´s a must have for third world countries....

Or for people who use their trucks for work rather than a commuter.


I could write a short novel on ERCOT/power stuff, so won't wade into anything substantive.
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