Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Wednesday August 12, 2020
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Water/Methanol Injection, Nitrous & Intercooler Cooling

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-28-2020, 09:14 AM   #301
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Delphi View Post
Has anyone here gone direct port? I've been thinking about going to an Aquamist setup for safety and the fact its the best Methanol Kit on the market without standalone controllers and what not.
I know a Aquamist had their PDM controlled kit (model number escapes me) but running it port style was common from what I recall. If I recall they had the check valves to keep vacuum from sucking fluid into the port as well.

My goofy engineer ass whats to run a tiny nozzle pre compressor (I'm aware of the risks), then another small one post compressor (not enough for it to condense in the intercooler) and then post intercooler.

Get all that heat out. Then again, if you can shoot directly over the valve, and keep your air mass fraction up by not vaporizing the water/meth charge....

Would be an interesting test. I've seen how this principle works with high secondary injectors and the addition time for latent heat of vaporization won out over shooting past the valve.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 05-28-2020, 10:20 PM   #302
Delphi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239335
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Homemade WRX View Post
I know a Aquamist had their PDM controlled kit (model number escapes me) but running it port style was common from what I recall. If I recall they had the check valves to keep vacuum from sucking fluid into the port as well.

My goofy engineer ass whats to run a tiny nozzle pre compressor (I'm aware of the risks), then another small one post compressor (not enough for it to condense in the intercooler) and then post intercooler.

Get all that heat out. Then again, if you can shoot directly over the valve, and keep your air mass fraction up by not vaporizing the water/meth charge....

Would be an interesting test. I've seen how this principle works with high secondary injectors and the addition time for latent heat of vaporization won out over shooting past the valve.


I wish I was more capable with tuning because I would love to try that.

With the Aquamist setup from what I understand is that you run the port injectors along with a pre throttle body injector that is 2x the size of the port injectors. I've been talking with my tuner to see what the best avenue is for me, he has a lot of experience with the Aquamist stuff so who knows I may stay single injector. I plan on adding some BC 272 cams as well and I am looking at a bigger hotside for the turbo to carry out the power. The T3 0.63 on my SX257 is awesome on the street but adding an extra 500-600rpm might make it a restriction. A T3 0.82 without e85 here in Canada should be the sweet spot with Cams and a good meth system.
Delphi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-30-2020, 12:59 PM   #303
Grantmac
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 498493
Join Date: Mar 2019
Default

I'm running a single nozzle in the upstream end tank of my TMIC right now with success. I wasn't convinced that I'd get even fluid distribution with the nozzle close to the TB.

I may eventually go for a dual nozzle system with each positioned adjacent to the inlet pipes but for now the nozzle is simply positioned between them.

I do get a little excess fueling on shifts which is likely residual fluid in the IC but not enough to cause an issue. My system allows me to prime from the driver's seat so I can also use it to combat heat soak in theory although the car obviously doesn't idle that well ingesting fluid so I need to pulse it for a second or two at a time.
Grantmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2020, 07:43 AM   #304
pcampbell
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 437670
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: VT
Vehicle:
2005 2.5 SC OB

Default

Just curious, why not after the intercooler?
pcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2020, 02:57 AM   #305
Grantmac
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 498493
Join Date: Mar 2019
Default

I wanted to give the fluid longer to phase change, help improve IC efficiency and also possibly distribute the fluid more evenly.

In theory it should do all that. In practice I don't have any way to confirm that it's better than just before the throttle plate.
Grantmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2020, 07:49 PM   #306
blurred
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 47143
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grantmac View Post
I wanted to give the fluid longer to phase change, help improve IC efficiency and also possibly distribute the fluid more evenly.

In theory it should do all that. In practice I don't have any way to confirm that it's better than just before the throttle plate.

No, its actually not good before the intercooler, you need it to be mist when in the intake manifold in order to take some heat away from combustion and allow the meth to act as a fuel. You are doing more harm than good.
blurred is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2020, 09:07 PM   #307
Delphi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 239335
Join Date: Feb 2010
Chapter/Region: W. Canada
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Vehicle:
2011 WRX
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blurred View Post
No, its actually not good before the intercooler, you need it to be mist when in the intake manifold in order to take some heat away from combustion and allow the meth to act as a fuel. You are doing more harm than good.
A small nozzle pre intercooler does help cool the charge a lot. But you still require a big nozzle in a standard place.
Delphi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2020, 09:51 PM   #308
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

And a small nozzle pre-compressor can actually increase mass flow rate but if done incorrectly, it can etch/damage the compressor wheel.
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2020, 07:25 AM   #309
pcampbell
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 437670
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: VT
Vehicle:
2005 2.5 SC OB

Default

Any guideline for what is too big of a single nozzle? I know devils own makes bigger single nozzles than snow. Iím on a DO5 now and itís great but with more boost would like to move up to the next size which is a DO7.
pcampbell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2020, 07:32 AM   #310
murrdogg24
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 50586
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Colorado Springs
Vehicle:
2020 STI
Crystal White Pearl

Default

back when i had my smc kit, i had the nozzle underneath the tmic outlet directly in front of the throttle body. it seemed to work well for added boost in the higher rpm's, this was on the stock v8 ej207 with the vf37, hitting 25psi.
murrdogg24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2020, 10:52 AM   #311
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcampbell View Post
Any guideline for what is too big of a single nozzle? I know devils own makes bigger single nozzles than snow. Iím on a DO5 now and itís great but with more boost would like to move up to the next size which is a DO7.
I simply made my own sizing calculator for nozzle selection as there are so many nozzles and pressures on the market. So first calculate what your nozzle is really putting out.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Water injection nozzle calculator.jpg (25.4 KB, 25 views)
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2020, 04:58 PM   #312
Grantmac
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 498493
Join Date: Mar 2019
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blurred View Post
No, its actually not good before the intercooler, you need it to be mist when in the intake manifold in order to take some heat away from combustion and allow the meth to act as a fuel. You are doing more harm than good.
I disagree. The methanol will still burn as a vapor and I'm nowhere near the temperature required to vaporize water. The fluid remains as a mist while it travels through the intercooler where it helps pull heat. Also allows better distribution compared to aiming it at just one spot near the throttle body.

Running 20psi with a k04 on crappy Canadian fuel (91 equivalent) and 13 degrees of timing at peak torque.
Grantmac is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2020, 06:08 AM   #313
RakumiAzuri
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 472102
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: NOVA
Vehicle:
2018 WRX
Gunmetal

Default

Has anyone added one of these kits to the 2015-2020 WRX? E85 isn't a, reasonable, option where I live for a few reasons. Were there any issues or unforeseen draw backs?
RakumiAzuri is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2020, 09:18 AM   #314
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Mooresville, NC
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RakumiAzuri View Post
Has anyone added one of these kits to the 2015-2020 WRX? E85 isn't a, reasonable, option where I live for a few reasons. Were there any issues or unforeseen draw backs?
Yes, lots of people have added meth injection to the FA20DIT engines.
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
water / methanol injection kit -new or used blazin sti Private 'Wanted' Classifieds 3 05-27-2006 08:01 PM
Water/Methanol Injection or Race Fuel or Both ejh25 Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 7 03-28-2005 06:35 PM
Derek Devises Water/Methanol Injection mistaboosta Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 2 11-01-2004 05:52 PM
Derek Devises Water/Methanol Injection mistaboosta Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 0 11-01-2004 04:51 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2020 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.