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Old 11-29-2006, 04:31 PM   #1
Scuba Steve
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04 GT35R STi+E85
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Thumbs up 04 STi, GT35R, 91 octane + H20/Meth

I gotta give a big thanks to Adam (Drac9) of Revolutions Tuning for makin this happen! When it comes to a Protune, he's got it DOWN! On W/G (12psi) it did 268whp, 22psi, 388whp, 29psi + H20/Meth, 452whp . All on 91 OCTANE! I couldn't of done it without the H20/Meth injection from Snow Performance, Boost Coolers ROCK! This thing is NO joke, I love it. We are at 6100ft elevation so all psi numbers are gauge pressure, subtract about 3.6 for absolute psi.

29psi +H20/Meth


Boost and AFR


Here's the spool of the 35R/stock manifold vs the 20G and my leaky header




Here's a vid of the car after it was tuned

POWER
Axis Stage II block w/ CP 8.5:1 pistons
Garrett GT35R
Ultimate Racing Up-Pipe
Ultimate Racing Down-Pipe
Ultimate Racing CAI
Revolutions Tuning custom I/C Piping
Invidia Ti cat-back
Tial 44mm W/G
HKS SSQ BOV
Perrin Pulley
Perrin modified STi injectors
APS DR725 FMIC
Walbro fuel pump
AccessPORT EM tuned by Adam at Revolutions Tuning
JDM STi 6-speed
Braille 11.5lb battery
NGK Iridium LFR7AIX plugs
Static X grounding kit
Greddy oil catch can
Snow Performance water/methanol injection

SUSPENSION
JDM STi Spec C springs (Pinks)
Whiteline Anti-Lift Kit
Whiteline Diff-Lock Kit
H&R rear camber bolts
Front and rear STi replica strut tower bars

EXTERIOR
JDM STi headlights
Custom front grille
STi replica S203 carbon fiber front lip
Seibon reverse carbon fiber hood scoop with custom paint
VIS carbon fiber trunk with custom paint
OEM 06 STi rear diffuser
Custom painted OEM BBS wheels with Yokohama Advan 235/45/17
20% tint

INTERIOR AND DRESS-UP
Custom painted stock steering wheel
Defi boost gauge
Defi EGT gauge
Defi oil pressure gauge
Carbon fiber gauge pod
PLX M300 wideband
OEM Forester din pocket
JDM STi hazard button
APEX-i AVCR boost controller
Kenwood CD player
Focal front and rear speakers
Alpine amp w/ 10" sub
Kartboy short shifter
Kartboy shifter bushings
OEM STi floor mats from Canada
Red HVAC mod
Passport 8500 X50
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Last edited by Scuba Steve; 11-29-2006 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:50 PM   #2
V6TurboTA
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Damn... Congrats
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Old 11-29-2006, 04:54 PM   #3
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how about some pics of the car itself
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:07 PM   #4
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Congratulations!

Thank God we have 94 up here

Darryl
www.ultimate-racing.com
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:25 PM   #5
Scuba Steve
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Talking







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Old 11-29-2006, 05:28 PM   #6
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Nice car and I am glad you are happy with your tune. I am suprised the Fuel curve was not cleaned up down low. You can rally see a hit in power as the engine struggles to pull through that rich spot. That sounds like a hell of alot of boost for 450whp. Most GT35R setups will do 430-440whp on 20-22 psi on 91 with no water or meth. None the less have fun with it!

Clark
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:36 PM   #7
Scuba Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Most GT35R setups will do 430-440whp on 20-22 psi on 91 with no water or meth.

Clark

Not in Colorado .
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:42 PM   #8
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Not a valid excuse! You sound like Dave! Good luck with Steve!

Clark
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Old 11-29-2006, 05:50 PM   #9
Scuba Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Not a valid excuse! You sound like Dave! Good luck with Steve!

Clark
LOL, I know Dave! Maybe you should come out to Colorado for a little tuning trip . I think you may be surprised by the effects of altitude .
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Old 11-29-2006, 06:07 PM   #10
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Yeah. Dave is a cool guy! I met him a few times. Every post he makes he uses the Altitude as an excuse! LOL.. Where are ya Dave?

Clark
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Old 11-29-2006, 09:00 PM   #11
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Keep in mind that these numbers are also from a Dyno Dynamics- which everyone knows reads consistantly lower than a dynojet. We also like to give what we call an "honest correction factor." We enter all of the information from the weather cell and it calculates the CF. Typically it's a 1.30-1.34 at our altitude. Forced induction vehicles do not lose that much at this altitude. What we do is take what it calculates and cut it in half. Steve's car was a 1.34 calculated so half correction is 1.17. From what we've seen this is pretty accurate. We had another customer at our sister shop with a dyno dynamics dyno in boulder test his car with a 1.15 cf. He went and ran on a DD dyno at sea level with no CF and was within 5hp of his numbers from up here. We had another Supra customer test his car on our dyno and made 550whp. The next day he tested on a local dynojet and made 650whp on the same tune. So that's 16% difference. SO add 16% to Steve's number for a number closer to Dynojet numbers- 523.16 HP. Hope that helps.
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Most GT35R setups will do 430-440whp on 20-22 psi on 91 with no water or meth. None the less have fun with it!

Clark
Dyno Jet Yes, all day long. Not on a Dyno Dynamics Dyno. Thats for sure.
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Old 11-29-2006, 10:29 PM   #13
modaddict
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Sweet car! Have fun with it!
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Old 11-30-2006, 11:24 AM   #14
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Naw. DynoDynamics reads the same and has for years now. They only read low when they first came over to the US and then they read real low. This was back in 03. Dont forget I travel the country tuning on all types of dynos. I have a feeling that lets me form an a pretty solid opinion. Just last week. I had a customer run his car on three dynos.

279whp mustang (mine)
293whp Dyno dynamics
313whp Dynojet.

These results are typical. But hey if the guys is happy then so be it.. But at 29 psi that turbo is flowing ALOT of air, Simply look at the comp map. Next you will tell me that this dyno dynamics is the lowest reading in the country and the altitude somehow makes 20lbs of air disapear off the compressor map.. LOL

have fun!

Clark
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Old 11-30-2006, 12:27 PM   #15
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Again, nice work guys!

mike
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:36 PM   #16
davidm_sh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
Yeah. Dave is a cool guy! I met him a few times. Every post he makes he uses the Altitude as an excuse! LOL.. Where are ya Dave?

Clark
What can I say Clark... I am a broken record [heh] .

How about we look at it like this. I have a fairly typcial Green setup running 21-22psi to make about 110hp over what a stock STi makes up here on a given dyno (have proven this delta on a dyno-dynamics and dyno-jet). 100-110hp gain seems to be pretty on par of a gain regardless of altitude from what I have seen. This on 91 octane.

So now Steve on the dyno-dynamics dyno is about 125hp over my Green setup (on pump 91). Granted I am comparing his meth tune to mine. But even comparing is straight 91 octane tune (388whp) to mine (325whp) at the same boost level (~21-22psi) he is making 53whp more than I am.

So my question to you is do the deltas seem reasonable? I know it's hard to compare dyno to dyno and then when you throw in altitude it skews things even more (I KNOW all heresay by me [heh]), but I think it seems about right that Steve is making almost 55whp more than I am at the same boost level with that larger snail [shrug].

I don't know... he should be VERY fast up here coupled with the fact that he is one hell of a driver. As far as bigger turbo numbers I have seen up here (GT35R and Schwitzer turbos) he is definitly on the upper end of the hp scale on pump gas even with the meth injection.

I know on the other large turbo kit cars up here they do run in the 25-30psi range on pump gas.

EDIT: Just for the fun of it here are some rough PR calculations to show how little altitude effects turbos

at sea level running 21-22psi on the GT35R = 2.45 PR (assuming flow of 55lbs/min roughly 72-79% efficiency on the comp map)
at 6000ft asl (Colorado Springs where Steve is) 21-22psi on the GT35R = 2.95 PR (assuming flow of 55lbs/min roughly 65-72% efficiency)
at 6000ft asl (Colorado Springs where Steve is) 29 psi on the GT35R = 3.63 PR (assuming flow of 55lbs/min - off the map - guesstimate of 55-60% efficiency)

Ode to the FMIC =).
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:50 PM   #17
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53whp over a green? I dont get it... Its now routine to make 450-500whp on 91 and methenol at 22-25 psi. Junior just did one that made 509whp at like 27 psi. I have had them to 500 many times. 29 psi seems like an awful lot O boost for only 450whp. This is pump 93 power on 21 psi.... had this post said 20 psi I would have been pleased. Somewhere there is a missing 50-100whp. Dont you agree?

Steve dont take this as a knock. Its a tech forum and I would like to discuss why your car is making the power it is.

Clark
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Old 11-30-2006, 02:56 PM   #18
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kinda sleeperish, if you could call it that
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Old 11-30-2006, 06:50 PM   #19
davidm_sh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
53whp over a green? I dont get it... Its now routine to make 450-500whp on 91 and methenol at 22-25 psi. Junior just did one that made 509whp at like 27 psi. I have had them to 500 many times. 29 psi seems like an awful lot O boost for only 450whp. This is pump 93 power on 21 psi.... had this post said 20 psi I would have been pleased. Somewhere there is a missing 50-100whp. Dont you agree?

Steve dont take this as a knock. Its a tech forum and I would like to discuss why your car is making the power it is.

Clark
Yah I don't know. From the 3-4 GT35R sized turbo tunes I have seen up here (different tuners for each) they usually range in the 400-425whp on straight 91 octane at around 20-24psi range (at Super Rupair dyno - same dyno as Steve was on - 'sister shop' - referencing Xephyr's and Michael D's schwitzer setups). So I guess maybe Steve's 22psi pump gas numbers are a little off of that 12-20hp or so. But then again that dyno is in Boulder which I believe is not as high as 6000ft asl either.

As far as comparing to what other tuners make at sea level I don't have any experience with that since the old 02 WRX days with the VF22 and 18G and talk about apples to cantelope with the 2.5L and HUGE turbos like the GT35R vs a VF22.

Just curious how much does a typcial GT35R setup make over a Green on pump gas in your experience? Both with external wastegates? From what I remember reading it seems the typical Green setup is 350-400whp range. And like you said the typical GT35R is in the 400-450whp range right? So that is an average difference of ~50whp right? The meth tune and 29psi I can't speak to which is why I am keeping my side of this conversation to the strictly pump gas numbers.
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Old 12-02-2006, 05:33 PM   #20
Scuba Steve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZScoobie View Post
53whp over a green? I dont get it... Its now routine to make 450-500whp on 91 and methenol at 22-25 psi. Junior just did one that made 509whp at like 27 psi. I have had them to 500 many times. 29 psi seems like an awful lot O boost for only 450whp. This is pump 93 power on 21 psi.... had this post said 20 psi I would have been pleased. Somewhere there is a missing 50-100whp. Dont you agree?

Steve dont take this as a knock. Its a tech forum and I would like to discuss why your car is making the power it is.

Clark
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuba Steve View Post
We are at 6100ft elevation so all psi numbers are gauge pressure, subtract about 3.6 for absolute psi.
The ProTuner data logger was showing 25psi (absolute).

So when I take my car to a local AWD Dyno Jet and put down 530whp SAE on the exact same tune and gas what will you say? The Dyno is just a tool.

Based on my 452whp numbers I believe I will trap about 122mph up here at 5800ft elevation. Is that about what a stock weight STi traps at sea level with 452whp?

I'm not taking any of this as a knock, I'm curious too.
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Old 12-02-2006, 09:01 PM   #21
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I also had my car tuned at the same place Steve did. Adam (Drac9) is great tuner and spent most of the day tuning mine which I prefer and not do a rush tune. Thanks Adam! Anyway I think it got 370whp 1.15 corrected, 24psi, with my FP Red using 91/methanol on Adams Dyno Dynamics.

I then went to another local DynoJet and did 422whp 1.24 corrected with the same tune. I think if my vehicle was NA, that may be correct but 1.24 is too much correction for a turbo.

I then went to a local track and trapped 115mph which is roughly 392 hp according to calculator (3300 lbs).

As for my setup, I'm a little disappointed with the 7cm Red HP levels but the car runs great and spools pretty quick. EWG and 8cm would bring out more HP but I've decided to go with the TSR70 in Jan.

I would encourage Clark to come here and tune a similar setup and see if he can put the altitude theories at rest. Good thread!

Last edited by R0DENT; 12-02-2006 at 09:12 PM.
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Old 12-02-2006, 09:56 PM   #22
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What are the specs on the 35r? Looks like T04E compressor housing with .63a/r backside... ? Nice numbers by the way.
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Old 12-03-2006, 02:32 AM   #23
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.82 exhaust
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:37 AM   #24
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David nailed it right on the head with the pressure ratio calculations.

Even with identical absolute pressures generated between sea level and up here, the snail is pushed WAY outside of the efficiency range to generate those same boost levels compared to sea level.

Once again all that pesky math and science nonsense getting in the way of "common knowledge". Those darn celebrity tuners foiled again.
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Old 12-04-2006, 10:42 AM   #25
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