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Old 09-10-2019, 04:23 PM   #1
PyroguyFTW
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Default How to hit 12s?

I just got a new-to-me '16 WRX, and it already has a Cobb Stage 2+ with the Big SF intake on it. It pulls well enough, but as one does, I want more. Taking the driver mod out of the equation, what recipe should make this car capable of running 12's?

My only stipulation is that I don't want TGV or EGR deletes, as I drive a long distance every day to work and don't want to sacrifice the 29 mpg that I've been averaging.

My current plan, in order, is to upgrade the intercooler to a Verticooler or Garrett TMIC, then get Cobb's flex fuel sensor, and a Brentune so that I can add some e85 for when I'm feeling frisky on the weekends.

If anyone here has hit 12's and is willing to share a mod list, I would greatly appreciate it! Thank you!
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:09 PM   #2
noobultimatum
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12s? Protune your already stage 2 set up + driver mod (you already knew that...)

I have tgv and egr delete and regularly see 30+ mpg on hi-way when using cruise control. 5th gear @ 70 mph.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:19 PM   #3
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You'll maybe notice 1-2 MPG from what I've read from TGV EGR deletes, and likely with that, TMIC, e85 and tune you'll hit your goal.

If you're trying to get your 29mpg commuter to the drag strip then I probably would suggest some other mods. You'll likely get transmission shock without them, and of course poor shifting. Pitch stop mount, Tran mount, and probably shifting upgrades.

Keep in mind, depending on the mileage of your car, I would do some preventive measures to ensure your car doesn't blow up on the first run. Walnut blasting if the car is over 40-50k, as well as changing trans fluid.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:34 PM   #4
Straight6
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AP and OTS E30 stage 1 tune will get you into 12's with a good launch. DP/exhaust E30 stage 2 you are in low to mid 12's depending on your skill and launch.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:38 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
I just got a new-to-me '16 WRX, and it already has a Cobb Stage 2+ with the Big SF intake on it. It pulls well enough, but as one does, I want more. Taking the driver mod out of the equation, what recipe should make this car capable of running 12's?

My only stipulation is that I don't want TGV or EGR deletes, as I drive a long distance every day to work and don't want to sacrifice the 29 mpg that I've been averaging.

My current plan, in order, is to upgrade the intercooler to a Verticooler or Garrett TMIC, then get Cobb's flex fuel sensor, and a Brentune so that I can add some e85 for when I'm feeling frisky on the weekends.

If anyone here has hit 12's and is willing to share a mod list, I would greatly appreciate it! Thank you!

There are a LOT of ways to make a 12 sec pass happen, but in reference to gas mileage and the removal of parts such as the EGR and TGV's or even larger injectors ITS ALL IN THE TUNE!!! My car runs id1300's has EVERYTHING deleted that I could think to remove and if I want it will still get me 25-30mpg all day everyday.

Have you made any passes on the car how it is?
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:50 PM   #6
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Cobb AccessPort, Flex Fuel kit & tune should get you there. The TGV/EGR deletes & TMIC aren't a bad idea for other reasons, but they aren't necessary.

FWIW, I got over 30 mpg on the highway on 91 with my flex fuel tune (had EGR & TGV deletes). I managed to average of ~23-24 mpg on E50, getting up to 26-27 mpg on the highway depending on the driving conditions. These are calculated numbers as the mpg display will no longer be accurate. It was over 30% off and reading ~35 mpg on E50
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
There are a LOT of ways to make a 12 sec pass happen, but in reference to gas mileage and the removal of parts such as the EGR and TGV's or even larger injectors ITS ALL IN THE TUNE!!! My car runs id1300's has EVERYTHING deleted that I could think to remove and if I want it will still get me 25-30mpg all day everyday.

Have you made any passes on the car how it is?
I haven't made any passes yet. I've had it for about a week and there is a test-n-tune day coming up this weekend that I plan on going to.
As for tuning, I've been looking for a good tuner, and I can't decide between Brentune or a local dyno.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Cobb AccessPort, Flex Fuel kit & tune should get you there. The TGV/EGR deletes & TMIC aren't a bad idea for other reasons, but they aren't necessary.

FWIW, I got over 30 mpg on the highway on 91 with my flex fuel tune (had EGR & TGV deletes). I managed to average of ~23-24 mpg on E50, getting up to 26-27 mpg on the highway depending on the driving conditions. These are calculated numbers as the mpg display will no longer be accurate. It was over 30% off and reading ~35 mpg on E50
I have a catch can setup so I'm not super worried about buildup, and there's a TMIC on the way. I never realized that flex fuel would throw off the reading, I always thought it calculated based on fuel flow rates and travelled distance.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
I haven't made any passes yet. I've had it for about a week and there is a test-n-tune day coming up this weekend that I plan on going to.
As for tuning, I've been looking for a good tuner, and I can't decide between Brentune or a local dyno.



I have a catch can setup so I'm not super worried about buildup, and there's a TMIC on the way. I never realized that flex fuel would throw off the reading, I always thought it calculated based on fuel flow rates and travelled distance.
already proven that catch can does next to nothing to prevent carbon build up on the back of our valves.

You need to blast them or run some form of port injected set up. WMI spraying water/meth, water, or straight meth will keep em clean.
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Old 09-11-2019, 09:51 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by noobultimatum View Post
already proven that catch can does next to nothing to prevent carbon build up on the back of our valves.

You need to blast them or run some form of port injected set up. WMI spraying water/meth, water, or straight meth will keep em clean.
Is there any history of straight water injection cleaning the valves? Or would I need to blast them then run water?
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Old 09-11-2019, 02:40 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
Is there any history of straight water injection cleaning the valves? Or would I need to blast them then run water?
Yea, a lot of builds spray just water. The idea is that if its getting wet, the build up wont stick.

In all seriousness, our valves get build up because of the direct injection. So, if something were spraying on the back, then they would be clean/cleaner than if nothing was being sprayed.

Tons of WMI builds on direct injection cars attest to the very nice side effect of cleaner valves.

If you do not have a WMI kit, then yes... you would need to walnut blast every so often. Some do it at 50k. some wait longer than that.

I did mine closer to 60k if I recall correctly. Build up was bad. Black thick coating then turned clean silver after the walnut blast.

My build is going to have direct port injection meth so that will keep the valves and intake tract clean.
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:25 AM   #11
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Well, I got it to the track tonight. I was only able to pull a 13.8 @ 98 out of it, which has me thinking that there's something going on with the car. I was lining up with a downpipe and tune STI who was doing 13.7s and trapping 100-101, which could mean conditions were bad tonight. I have no idea where I messed up my runs, so now I need to figure out where to improve.

LC set at 5000
FFS at 5700
Shifting at 6500-6700
One run with everything but shift rpm bumped up 400 rpm with the same results.

Any advice on what can be improved?
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Old 09-14-2019, 11:05 AM   #12
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If this was your first time at the dragstrip, thatís pretty solid. Most internet warriors have no idea what it takes to get a solid ET on a prepped surface. I used to work at a dragstrip and when I took my stage one wrx I was getting low 14s, so your 13.8 on a stage 2 car on your first outing is pretty solid.

Tips: our cars heatsoak like a motherflapper in the staging lanes. If youíre idling, waiting your turn, IATs will climb above 100f and then your car is down on power for the entire 1/4. A FMIC really shines on the dragstrip and would be a wise investment if youíre serious about hitting 12s. The other option is waiting until temps really cool off into the low 60s.

Next I would work on your launch. StockBlackWRX on YouTube has some tutorials. Heís pretty much mastered launching our car. Every 1/10 you save in your 60ft can be 2/10s on your ET.

Good luck! Fast Subaruís in the 1/4 takes practice and $$$

Last edited by dusty_sombero; 09-14-2019 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 09-14-2019, 12:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
Well, I got it to the track tonight. I was only able to pull a 13.8 @ 98 out of it, which has me thinking that there's something going on with the car. I was lining up with a downpipe and tune STI who was doing 13.7s and trapping 100-101, which could mean conditions were bad tonight. I have no idea where I messed up my runs, so now I need to figure out where to improve.

LC set at 5000
FFS at 5700
Shifting at 6500-6700
One run with everything but shift rpm bumped up 400 rpm with the same results.

Any advice on what can be improved?
StockBlackWrx mentioned above, said to have FlatFootShifting set around 6600-6700RPM. No idea why but I would trust him. Also, if you have a good tmic don't worry about upgrading unless it is really underperforming. Manifold temps get higher while idling with a fmic because of the chargepipe location.
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Old 09-14-2019, 12:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
Well, I got it to the track tonight. I was only able to pull a 13.8 @ 98 out of it, which has me thinking that there's something going on with the car. I was lining up with a downpipe and tune STI who was doing 13.7s and trapping 100-101, which could mean conditions were bad tonight. I have no idea where I messed up my runs, so now I need to figure out where to improve.
Post your slip with the breakdown of the run.
Also what tires are you on and what pressure?
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Old 09-14-2019, 01:38 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by dusty_sombero View Post
If this was your first time at the dragstrip, thatís pretty solid. Most internet warriors have no idea what it takes to get a solid ET on a prepped surface. I used to work at a dragstrip and when I took my stage one wrx I was getting low 14s, so your 13.8 on a stage 2 car on your first outing is pretty solid.

Tips: our cars heatsoak like a motherflapper in the staging lanes. If youíre idling, waiting your turn, IATs will climb above 100f and then your car is down on power for the entire 1/4. A FMIC really shines on the dragstrip and would be a wise investment if youíre serious about hitting 12s. The other option is waiting until temps really cool off into the low 60s.

Next I would work on your launch. StockBlackWRX on YouTube has some tutorials. Heís pretty much mastered launching our car. Every 1/10 you save in your 60ft can be 2/10s on your ET.


Good luck! Fast Subaruís in the 1/4 takes practice and $$$
This.
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Old 09-14-2019, 02:41 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty_sombero View Post
Tips: our cars heatsoak like a motherflapper in the staging lanes. If youíre idling, waiting your turn, IATs will climb above 100f and then your car is down on power for the entire 1/4. A FMIC really shines on the dragstrip and would be a wise investment if youíre serious about hitting 12s. The other option is waiting until temps really cool off into the low 60s.
Great advice. A FMIC is ideal for drag racing as the TMIC will heatsoak as you're idling, waiting your turn and in the staging lanes. An upgraded TMIC won't provide much help here. They have a larger thermal mass which means they'll heat up slower, but also means they won't recover as quickly as the OEM tube & fin core. You could always add an intercooler sprayer or WMI to combat the higher IATs. Some people will also just put ice on their intercooler between runs. If you go the FMIC route, then I'd highly recommend looking into the IBR BRZ manifold kit (which includes TGV deletes).

Flex fuel will not only give you more power, but will cope with the higher IATs better. Between its higher effective octane (~105) and cooling properties (high latent heat of evaporation), it will help absorb heat from the intake charge making it cooler, denser, and less prone to detonation (knock) while improving power output.
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Old 09-14-2019, 06:25 PM   #17
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I'll try to answer all of these as best as I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty_sombero View Post
If this was your first time at the dragstrip, that’s pretty solid. Most internet warriors have no idea what it takes to get a solid ET on a prepped surface. I used to work at a dragstrip and when I took my stage one wrx I was getting low 14s, so your 13.8 on a stage 2 car on your first outing is pretty solid.

Tips: our cars heatsoak like a motherflapper in the staging lanes. If you’re idling, waiting your turn, IATs will climb above 100f and then your car is down on power for the entire 1/4. A FMIC really shines on the dragstrip and would be a wise investment if you’re serious about hitting 12s. The other option is waiting until temps really cool off into the low 60s.

Next I would work on your launch. StockBlackWRX on YouTube has some tutorials. He’s pretty much mastered launching our car. Every 1/10 you save in your 60ft can be 2/10s on your ET.

Good luck! Fast Subaru’s in the 1/4 takes practice and $$$
Thank you! It's not my first time ever, but it is my first time in an AWD car. I have run RWD in the past, and learned a lot with that. As far as heatsoak, it's a stock intercooler, and we have a while to shut the cars down and cool off between runs. I did start it up to get the oil to about 170-180 before runs, but the manifold temp was about 15-20 above ambient before hitting boost. I won't be doing a FMIC because it's a daily and I don't want to risk anything with insurance should something happen. I am well aware of the 60' rule. The first time I learned to launch my old car, I shaved .3 off the front and .5 off the back end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by adam99 View Post
StockBlackWrx mentioned above, said to have FlatFootShifting set around 6600-6700RPM. No idea why but I would trust him. Also, if you have a good tmic don't worry about upgrading unless it is really underperforming. Manifold temps get higher while idling with a fmic because of the chargepipe location.
Stock TMIC. I've heard horror stories about FFS, but for a "what'll she do" run I would try it one time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpetro1 View Post
Post your slip with the breakdown of the run.
Also what tires are you on and what pressure?
Hankook Ventus 245 series 18s, street pressure because I'm not super worried about the extra .05-1 at this low power level, and best run of the night(by a few hundreths and .1-.2 mph):

60': 1.96
330': 5.69
1/8et: 8.83
1/8mph: 79.3
1000'et: 11.54
1000mph: 89.6
1/4et: 13.84
1/4mph: 98.3

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Great advice. A FMIC is ideal for drag racing as the TMIC will heatsoak as you're idling, waiting your turn and in the staging lanes. An upgraded TMIC won't provide much help here. They have a larger thermal mass which means they'll heat up slower, but also means they won't recover as quickly as the OEM tube & fin core. You could always add an intercooler sprayer or WMI to combat the higher IATs. Some people will also just put ice on their intercooler between runs. If you go the FMIC route, then I'd highly recommend looking into the IBR BRZ manifold kit (which includes TGV deletes).

Flex fuel will not only give you more power, but will cope with the higher IATs better. Between its higher effective octane (~105) and cooling properties (high latent heat of evaporation), it will help absorb heat from the intake charge making it cooler, denser, and less prone to detonation (knock) while improving power output.
If I didn't have to daily, I would go with the IBR manifold kit. Same kind of spool speed, better cooling, less heatsoak, not to mention a better intake runner. But to go into more detail than I mentioned earlier, I've heard some nasty cases of insurance companies denying claims for at fault/not at fault accidents with injuries due to 'compromised oem safety features.' I don't wan't to take that risk for an extra tenth or two.

There aren't many places around me with flex fuel, but I was thinking about a meth kit just for some added cooling and timing at WOT. Maybe down the road a flex fuel sensor and a tune, but not for a few years.
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Old 09-14-2019, 06:31 PM   #18
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Corn will certainly help. This is a stage 1 car, E30 OTS:





https://www.maperformance.com/produc...-wrx-ots-s1e30
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Old 09-14-2019, 06:33 PM   #19
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E30 OTS with simple bolt-ons:

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Old 09-14-2019, 07:46 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Straight6 View Post
Corn will certainly help. This is a stage 1 car, E30 OTS:
....
E30 OTS with simple bolt-ons:
....
Impressive. Working your way to the 11s!

I sure do miss flex fuel. I stopped at the gas station last night in the STI and my wife asked "you don't pump E85 anymore?" and I had to respond.. nope, that was only in the WRX

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-14-2019 at 07:52 PM.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:19 PM   #21
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I know that ethanol is the magic juice, but I don't really want to go that route right now. I am trying to figure out what I can do to get the best out of the car as it sits right now.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:30 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by WRXnick16 View Post
Impressive. Working your way to the 11s!

I sure do miss flex fuel. I stopped at the gas station last night in the STI and my wife asked "you don't pump E85 anymore?" and I had to respond.. nope, that was only in the WRX
While I spent many weekends at the drag strip and I do have that exact same tune, those aren't mine slips. I am not that good. I also saw a video of a 2015 WRX with a MAP 93 OTS stage 1 and Remark deletes hit a 13.1. There is another one that got 12.9 on 93 MAP OTS but the time slip doesn't come up anymore. The post can be found in the MAP 93 development thread.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:35 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
I know that ethanol is the magic juice, but I don't really want to go that route right now. I am trying to figure out what I can do to get the best out of the car as it sits right now.
There are so many variables when it comes to this. Don't focus on the time so much as long as you are having fun. I have seen APR tuned GTI's barely break into 14's and trapping in the 90's and those cars supposed to make over 300 whp @ 3,100 lbs.
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:39 PM   #24
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Old 09-14-2019, 08:40 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by PyroguyFTW View Post
I know that ethanol is the magic juice, but I don't really want to go that route right now. I am trying to figure out what I can do to get the best out of the car as it sits right now.
In that case, your best bet is probably more seat time and WMI kit. You could get an upgraded TMIC, but you're not going to see much bang for the buck there.

I know that you don't want to go the ethanol route, but it's the cheapest and easiest path to reaching your goal whether you go with an E30 tune or flex fuel kit. Even the flex fuel kit will cost less than a TMIC & WMI and result in a faster ET. E30 will probably give you a ~40 whp bump in power. You're not going to find that HP/$ ratio with any other mod.

I guess what I'm trying to say is just go practice more and have fun with your existing setup

Edit:
FWIW, my '16 WRX was my daily driver with a 50+ mile commute. We would also take it on the occasional road trip. The extra cost for the flex fuel kit & tune was definitely worth it just for the peace of mind. I never had to worry about finding an E85 pumpcal, culating the ethanol ratio, or flashing to another tune. I still managed to average 23-24 mpg on ~E50 with up to 27 mpg on the highway. The decreased fuel economy (compared to 91) was offset by the fact that E85 is ~$1 cheaper per gallon than E85 making it more cost effective for my commute.

Last edited by WRXnick16; 09-14-2019 at 09:12 PM.
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