Subaru To Replace STI With STe For High-Performance Electric Cars

[hi5.0]

Originally Posted by dwf137

This is an odd departure from the STI E-RA that has already been shown.




Sadly, I haven't seen anything about the E-RA concept actually hitting a track. All talk, no action.

This is like a mashup of the CLK GTR and a BRZ. Probably needs more testing before its first flight out on track.


And yes, the STe logo is rather boring and kind of dumb.

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[chanomatik]

Originally Posted by rmbrady

Of course they could learn things and it could trickle down, but wouldn't it be better to just put those things straight into the EV Forester? Is there anything that trickled down from the STi in the last 15 years. Motor, gearbox, differentials, brakes, suspension, all mothballed. None of which ever found their way to another car in the US (maybe you could say brakes on previous WRX PP, but that's currently dead as well).

I'll be thrilled to be proven wrong as a long time Subaru fan and past owner, but it feels like a mistep to me.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Subaru learned a lot from their development of the BRZ that almost immediately trickled down to the Outback, Legacy, WRX, Impreza and Forester. I'm almost positive that MY2013/MY2014 press releases for all of their vehicles noted improved stiffness and rigidity, always giving a percentage number. It was interesting to witness. They did so well with their SGP that the 2024 Impreza is only "10%" stiffer, which I think is one of the smallest improvements since the BRZ's release, which isn't a bad thing.

We don't know what will trickle down from STe. Even Toyota learned a lot from the LFA, which was a very expensive endeavor that eventually paid off. Maybe not financially, but it improved their brand image quite a bit once they trickled down design cues (F Sport and such).

I was hoping for a hybrid performance STI as I don't know how Subaru can pull off full EV performance in an affordable package. Since the STI has never been about range, an EV STI might be a perfect experiment for Subaru. 100 miles of adrenaline!

Sent from my SM-F926U using Tapatalk

[quentinberg007]

Can we stop with all the "-e-" nonsense. If it is an STI built by STI, call it an STI. We don't need cute names for everything.

[Snow Drift]

STe is just branding. It won't have anything to do with an Outback. Some day (10 years from now) there will be a performance Subaru EV with STe branding. That's all.

It will be the last EV model they develop, most likely.

[mcarb002]

And by the time Subaru actually releases it, every minivan in the market would already be EV with better performance lol

[19std]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

And by the time Subaru actually releases it, every minivan in the market would already be EV with better performance lol

We already have this right? Like cant a Tesla minivan, what is it a model x y z, smoke pretty much anything south of a TT awd v10?

I think they are claiming it's a 9 second car.

[Calamity Jesus]

Originally Posted by quentinberg007

Can we stop with all the "-e-" nonsense. If it is an STI built by STI, call it an STI. We don't need cute names for everything.

They can't. STI stands for Subaru Petroleum Tecnica Gasoline International /s

[rallly 4]

Originally Posted by carsebuco

Let's play Spot the Boomer

Let’s spot the guy who isn’t buying one either way

DING DING DING


You actually think anyone wants to drive this crap? Myself and another auto industry friend genuinely believe the gov is doing this to kill the American brands. Dodge goes EV what do they have? NOTHING. Nobody wants the 4xe wranglers and they only sell because they get heavily discounted. This EV stuff needs to stop

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by rmbrady

Of course they could learn things and it could trickle down, but wouldn't it be better to just put those things straight into the EV Forester? Is there anything that trickled down from the STi in the last 15 years. Motor, gearbox, differentials, brakes, suspension, all mothballed. None of which ever found their way to another car in the US (maybe you could say brakes on previous WRX PP, but that's currently dead as well).

I'll be thrilled to be proven wrong as a long time Subaru fan and past owner, but it feels like a mistep to me.

Sent from my SM-S906U using Tapatalk

Perhaps I should have added "racing" to endeavors when I said that. THAT is where their learnt knowledge I was referring to trickles down to their lineup. Not "from the STI" to another model.



Now, HOW they learn and use that knowledge I'd love to know. Seems Subaru takes a while longer than others. Subaru had a DI engine in the 90s matted to a (non-lineartronic) CVT concept engine. They have had, at least, 3 Hybrid conecpts and a couple/few EV cars that never went to production(one had limited run not for consumers); yet, they still went with a Toyota design. Even after they brought their own design first(and actually still use that one). Lots of stuff I'd love to see/learn about them.

[mcarb002]

Originally Posted by 19std

We already have this right? Like cant a Tesla minivan, what is it a model x y z, smoke pretty much anything south of a TT awd v10?

I think they are claiming it's a 9 second car.

No sir. x y z aren’t minivans.

[vapore0n]

Originally Posted by quentinberg007

Can we stop with all the "-e-" nonsense. If it is an STI built by STI, call it an STI. We don't need cute names for everything.

Subaru is just using this opportunity to move away from being known as the brand with a sexual transmitted infection.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Perhaps I should have added "racing" to endeavors when I said that. THAT is where their learnt knowledge I was referring to trickles down to their lineup. Not "from the STI" to another model.



Now, HOW they learn and use that knowledge I'd love to know. Seems Subaru takes a while longer than others. Subaru had a DI engine in the 90s matted to a (non-lineartronic) CVT concept engine. They have had, at least, 3 Hybrid conecpts and a couple/few EV cars that never went to production(one had limited run not for consumers); yet, they still went with a Toyota design. Even after they brought their own design first(and actually still use that one). Lots of stuff I'd love to see/learn about them.

One-offs, concepts (that don't drive) and commercial R1e are all easy to make once, or a few times. Volume production, and long-term mechanical reliability are difficult. Subaru needed Toyotas e-TNGA system, since they don't have anything.

Subaru (IIRC) has never even mentioned a contract where they are guaranteed battery minerals/supplies in the future. They have Power Point presentations, not actual physical EV products.

[19std]

Originally Posted by vapore0n

Subaru is just using this opportunity to move away from being known as the brand with a sexual transmitted infection.

Hey i resemble that remark.

[19std]

Originally Posted by mcarb002

No sir. x y z aren’t minivans.

Hey just because you put lambo doors on the minivan, doesn't make it not a minivan.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

One-offs, concepts (that don't drive) and commercial R1e are all easy to make once, or a few times. Volume production, and long-term mechanical reliability are difficult. Subaru needed Toyotas e-TNGA system, since they don't have anything.

Subaru (IIRC) has never even mentioned a contract where they are guaranteed battery minerals/supplies in the future. They have Power Point presentations, not actual physical EV products.

Subaru was responsible for the chassis. They just each call it their respective names. Not saying Toyota didn't have it's own input.



Subaru is also apparently putting a dedicated EV manufacturing building at Gunma. They do have plans for their own EVs. Since that last 5 year plan is over, maybe we'll hear about it more soon.




They needed each other for the siblings. I think Subaru has a plan. It just takes them longer(look at the STI). The next few years will be interesting.



People keep saying Subaru is hurting and Toyota is going to buy out Subaru. Why? Subaru had done nothing but grow for the past decade.The pandemic was the only thing that could slow it down. They still are not back to that level yet; but, the demand is still there. As long as they keep themselves at the top in safety, reliability and versatility, the "AWD" about them won't matter as much. There ARE "better" AWDs out there. They cost a good penny more as well. Shoot, I took one of our Solterras over to a Toyota dealer that had a BZ4X AWD. $2000 higher sticker(with $2000 more ADM. It was their first one) than our Limited I was in and it didn't even have the self parking. Pay MORE for less? That's where Subaru has always been the best. Best OVERALL value for the money.



Sorry. Got long winded. Bored at the station(good thing, eh. Probably just jinxed it).

[SVX WRX]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

As long as they keep themselves at the top in safety, reliability and versatility, the "AWD" about them won't matter as much.

claiming reliability and actually being reliable are two different things.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Subaru was responsible for the chassis. They just each call it their respective names. Not saying Toyota didn't have it's own input.



Subaru is also apparently putting a dedicated EV manufacturing building at Gunma. They do have plans for their own EVs. Since that last 5 year plan is over, maybe we'll hear about it more soon.




They needed each other for the siblings. I think Subaru has a plan. It just takes them longer(look at the STI). The next few years will be interesting.



People keep saying Subaru is hurting and Toyota is going to buy out Subaru. Why? Subaru had done nothing but grow for the past decade.The pandemic was the only thing that could slow it down. They still are not back to that level yet; but, the demand is still there. As long as they keep themselves at the top in safety, reliability and versatility, the "AWD" about them won't matter as much. There ARE "better" AWDs out there. They cost a good penny more as well. Shoot, I took one of our Solterras over to a Toyota dealer that had a BZ4X AWD. $2000 higher sticker(with $2000 more ADM. It was their first one) than our Limited I was in and it didn't even have the self parking. Pay MORE for less? That's where Subaru has always been the best. Best OVERALL value for the money.



Sorry. Got long winded. Bored at the station(good thing, eh. Probably just jinxed it).

Subaru did not develop e-TNGA. Subaru added their reinforced ring door frame to the existing Toyota TNGA chassis. It has existed for ages. This is why they are built at the Toyota factory, not Gunma. GR86/FR-S were based on Subaru developments.

Subaru-proprietary EVs would be great. That's the only way to innovate and actually buy into EVs. So far it has been surface level.

Toyota and Subaru needed each other because they are both lost at sea, unaware of what to do, or where to go. The rest of the industry has left them to drown. Even Honda had to latch onto GM for the Ultium platform. The Koreans have completely surpassed the Japanese OEMs.

I don't want Toyota to buy SBR, but it's certainly possible.

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by SVX WRX

claiming reliability and actually being reliable are two different things.

Reliable enough. Can any other car company claim that 97% of the cars they sold in the last 10 years are still on the road? If they were such a problem, that wouldn't be case, now would it?

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Subaru did not develop e-TNGA. Subaru added their reinforced ring door frame to the existing Toyota TNGA chassis. It has existed for ages. This is why they are built at the Toyota factory, not Gunma. GR86/FR-S were based on Subaru developments.

Subaru-proprietary EVs would be great. That's the only way to innovate and actually buy into EVs. So far it has been surface level.

Toyota and Subaru needed each other because they are both lost at sea, unaware of what to do, or where to go. The rest of the industry has left them to drown. Even Honda had to latch onto GM for the Ultium platform. The Koreans have completely surpassed the Japanese OEMs.

I don't want Toyota to buy SBR, but it's certainly possible.

Adding the Ring Shaped Reinforcement Frame isn't that simple. What is your source that Subaru didn't develop it? I'm not asking for links since I cannot "link" an engineer on the project. Just curious if you're referencing marketing, which like I said, they'll both claim their names on it.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Reliable enough. Can any other car company claim that 97% of the cars they sold in the last 10 years are still on the road? If they were such a problem, that wouldn't be case, now would it?







Adding the Ring Shaped Reinforcement Frame isn't that simple. What is your source that Subaru didn't develop it? I'm not asking for links since I cannot "link" an engineer on the project. Just curious if you're referencing marketing, which like I said, they'll both claim their names on it.

I have no proof other than the fact that it is on TNGA, and built by Toyota. It is not SGP. Toyota previewed the modular e-TNGA platform in 2019, which would be used with it's partners (ie customers, Suzuki, Daihatsu, Subaru). There are 6 cars previewed, and only 1 is a Subaru. Therefore, e-TNGA is Toyota. Subaru was a development partner.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/co.../28474382.html

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

I have no proof other than the fact that it is on TNGA, and built by Toyota. It is not SGP. Toyota previewed the modular e-TNGA platform in 2019, which would be used with it's partners (ie customers, Suzuki, Daihatsu, Subaru). There are 6 cars previewed, and only 1 is a Subaru. Therefore, e-TNGA is Toyota. Subaru was a development partner.

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/co.../28474382.html

The Solterra rides on neither the TNGA nor the SGP. It's a newer chassis that they now designate both with an "e". The project started around 2017. Just because Toyota was showing it off means little. Toyota also teased and previewed the twins earlier and more than Subaru did.


And Subaru's "respective fields of expertise" are their safety and AWD. Which the chassis is a big factor.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

The Solterra rides on neither the TNGA nor the SGP. It's a newer chassis that they now designate both with an "e". The project started around 2017. Just because Toyota was showing it off means little. Toyota also teased and previewed the twins earlier and more than Subaru did.

The jointly developed SUV between Toyota and Subaru is on e-TNGA, a modular EV platform developed by Toyota. Come on. No one invented a brand new chassis for one car. TNGA has existed at Toyota since 2015. This is the version with a skateboard battery. Subaru bolted on the upper portion by the doors/roof to make it a ring.

Without the TNGA platform, the Solterra would not exist. Subaru added their expertise to it. They are not the foundation of the platform.

[torquemada]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

And Subaru's "respective fields of expertise" are their safety and AWD.

Subaru knows nothing about electical AWD. Even their mechanical AWD systems were old old school....remember Mitsubishis S-AWD, ACD, AYC?


And with storing the batteries flat on the chassis most of the other electric car manufactureres have "more respective fields of expertise" in concerns of safety.


Subaru is dead last when it comes to EV

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

The jointly developed SUV between Toyota and Subaru is on e-TNGA, a modular EV platform developed by Toyota. Come on. No one invented a brand new chassis for one car. TNGA has existed at Toyota since 2015. This is the version with a skateboard battery. Subaru bolted on the upper portion by the doors/roof to make it a ring.

Without the TNGA platform, the Solterra would not exist. Subaru added their expertise to it. They are not the foundation of the platform.

Then explain "e-SGP" then?

edit: I'm trying too hard here. Lemme try and clarify it. The chassis does incorporate elements of both. You are correct there. Those elements have been seriously modified for both as well to make it a different "new" chassis.....which Subaru was the responsible side of that.

Originally Posted by torquemada

Subaru knows nothing about electical AWD. Even their mechanical AWD systems were old old school....remember Mitsubishis S-AWD, ACD, AYC?


And with storing the batteries flat on the chassis most of the other electric car manufactureres have "more respective fields of expertise" in concerns of safety.


Subaru is dead last when it comes to EV

So you're saying that Subaru wasn't responsible for the AWD characteristics of these cars. Though EVERYTHING talking about it to date credits Subaru?

Tesla, being their own behemoth in EV, is probably the only company that beats Subaru in safety. Which company, between Toyota and Subaru with EVERY model they make getting TSP for years, would you want responsible for making the car safe?

Subaru is well known for their work in metal and structural safety. Look at what their aerospace division was responsible for over the years.

[Snow Drift]

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

Then explain "e-SGP" then?

Marketing.

Haldex is called:
VW 4Motion
Audi Quattro
Audi Quattro w/ Ultra Tech
Ford ControlTrac

Magna ActiMax is called:
Maserati Q4
Alfa Romeo Q4
BWM xDrive

EDIT after yours: Let's compromise like this. The Solterra/bZ4X were developed on the basis of TNGA, with the addition of Subaru's input and those changes made the e-TNGA/e-SGP different from the starting point. It is a jointly developed variant.

Originally Posted by JustyWRC

So you're saying that Subaru wasn't responsible for the AWD characteristics of these cars. Though EVERYTHING talking about it to date credits Subaru?

Tesla, being their own behemoth in EV, is probably the only company that beats Subaru in safety. Which company, between Toyota and Subaru with EVERY model they make getting TSP for years, would you want responsible for making the car safe?

Subaru provided the XMode branding. Perhaps their software engineers were involved with Toyota's electric motor/stability control engineers.

Teslas are the safest cars on the road, but that is also due to their battery pack and inability to roll over in testing. No one is debating Subaru's commitment and success in safety. Toyota has a lot of TSP+ as well.

Subaru is very good, as we saw in the recent mid-size SUV test for rear passengers where only the Ford Explorer, MME, Tesla Model Y and Subaru Ascent passed.

One thing, the Impreza and Crosstrek (ICE) are not TSP+.
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-saf...#award-winners

[JustyWRC]

Originally Posted by Snow Drift

Marketing.

Haldex is called:
VW 4Motion
Audi Quattro
Audi Quattro w/ Ultra Tech
Ford ControlTrac

Magna ActiMax is called:
Maserati Q4
Alfa Romeo Q4
BWM xDrive





Subaru provided the XMode branding. Perhaps their software engineers were involved with Toyota's electric motor/stability control engineers.

Teslas are the safest cars on the road, but that is also due to their battery pack and inability to roll over in testing. No one is debating Subaru's commitment and success in safety. Toyota has a lot of TSP+ as well.

Subaru is very good, as we saw in the recent mid-size SUV test for rear passengers where only the Ford Explorer, MME, Tesla Model Y and Subaru Ascent passed.

One thing, the Impreza and Crosstrek (ICE) are not TSP+.
https://www.iihs.org/ratings/top-saf...#award-winners

So, only Subaru is "marketing" it and not Toyota?


And I didn't say TSP+. Just TSP. And it wasn't long ago that Subaru had more than Toyota and Honda combined! That's not the case now; but, every model of Subaru gets at least TSP, whereas the other two don't. Impreza's position will likely change with the '24



And to correct one of my responses, I was off a percentage point. 96%, not 97% of the cars sold in the last 10 years are still on the road.



Edit. HA. Just saw your edit.

Yes, I can agree to that if you can agree that part of it was handled by the Subaru engineers. It's a bit more into it than that and I can't seem to put it to words what was told to us.