Couple motor questions............

The Satch · 03-26-2009, 04:13 PM

Please excuse me if i am blatantly ignorant, im a newb at this and this will be my first time building a motor. i have read the piston FAQ and it was very helpful, but i still have a couple questions. I will be doing this myself with assistance from my father, a career mechanic. I am set on doing this myself, i have to learn sometime and i am very excited to do it. I will be doing rods and piston, possibly sleeves as well. I am 90% set on getting forged CP pistons, 99 or 100mm, and have not yet looked into rods. I talked to a guy at LA Sleeves and am considering getting a set of cast iron sleeves that will essentially close the deck. I plan on going rotated on this motor eventually, looking upwards of 500 horse, that is my reason for building the motor. now for the questions:

1. What are the best coatings to get on the pistons?

2. Please reccomend a good set of rods, im kinda lost here.

3. Is sleeving the motor going overboard? do i need to spend the 600 on the closed deck sleeves?

4. Anything else you guys want to throw in?

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stay_cold · 03-26-2009, 04:45 PM

1. I don't really have an answer for that but DSport had a really good article on this like 2 or 3 issues ago (I'll try to find a link for you)

2. Carillo rods, if you're doing the work yourself spend more $ on parts since you'll be saving on labor

3. better safe than sorry I'd sleeve it if I were you

The Satch · 03-28-2009, 09:00 AM

bump. please chime in guys, theres a first time for everyone and it would be nice to have some friendly advice.

hustleshark206 · 03-28-2009, 04:17 PM

We need more info from you. Is this a daily driver? Are you going to track it? What about built/ ported heads? What boost pressure will you be runnning? Is your target 500chp or 500whp? 500whp you will probably want to sleeve the block but there are plenty of people runnign 400+ whp without sleeved blocks. You will need to double that price (about $1200 is what I was quoted) for sleeves if you include the machine work

Carillo rods are very nice but more expensive. Look into Eagle or K1 rods they are a little cheaper. 500whp is pushin it for eagle rods though. Or Cosworth...................mmmmmmm Cosworth.

Man, have fun with the build! It is really a great project. Take lots of pictures and keep us posted.

The Satch · 03-28-2009, 04:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hustleshark206

We need more info from you. Is this a daily driver? Are you going to track it? What about built/ ported heads? What boost pressure will you be runnning? Is your target 500chp or 500whp? 500whp you will probably want to sleeve the block but there are plenty of people runnign 400+ whp without sleeved blocks. You will need to double that price (about $1200 is what I was quoted) for sleeves if you include the machine work

Carillo rods are very nice but more expensive. Look into Eagle or K1 rods they are a little cheaper. 500whp is pushin it for eagle rods though. Or Cosworth...................mmmmmmm Cosworth.

Man, have fun with the build! It is really a great project. Take lots of pictures and keep us posted.

i will doing the build in may, and will be taking it slow so i will take a ton of pictures. eventually (not right away, i will be upgrading the turbo later) i would like to see over 500 whp. i plan on daily driving it, with the occasional track day when i can fit it into my schedule. i dont know what boost pressure i will be running yet, as i havent decided on the turbo i want to put on, that may be a year away. my plan so far is to use the stock heads and port them myself, along with the TGV's. i have had suggestions of using ej207 heads, but given my limited experience i would prefer to stick with the stock ones for now.

The Satch · 03-30-2009, 12:35 PM

see post #3.

forgot to add i will be running the HFS-6 meth injection kit as well.

[email protected] Auto · 03-30-2009, 01:37 PM

If you are trying to make 500whp with meth, I do a skirt coating to reduce the friction, and I will do an aftermarket rods, like a carrilo or plauter. You do not need sleeves, if everything done correctly you will never break your stock sleeves, plus since this is your first time build try to keep it simple.

Homemade WRX · 03-30-2009, 02:16 PM

I agree with what Artie said...I've used the JE coatings with my pistons and they are, nice...for a little more money (abot $40 and shipping too and from PA) is Swaintech PC-9 and Gold top coating.

I'm a fan of Pauter since their machining is always spot on, like Carillo but for the extra $600 over Pauter, Carillo's are lighter.

Sleeves won't be needed for 500whp unless you have a tuner who likes really agressive timing. I only recommend sleeves to customers who are familiar with builds, don't have this as their only DD and do tend to race it quite often.

The Satch · 03-30-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by [email protected] Auto

If you are trying to make 500whp with meth, I do a skirt coating to reduce the friction, and I will do an aftermarket rods, like a carrilo or plauter. You do not need sleeves, if everything done correctly you will never break your stock sleeves, plus since this is your first time build try to keep it simple.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Homemade WRX

I agree with what Artie said...I've used the JE coatings with my pistons and they are, nice...for a little more money (abot $40 and shipping too and from PA) is Swaintech PC-9 and Gold top coating.

I'm a fan of Pauter since their machining is always spot on, like Carillo but for the extra $600 over Pauter, Carillo's are lighter.

Sleeves won't be needed for 500whp unless you have a tuner who likes really agressive timing. I only recommend sleeves to customers who are familiar with builds, don't have this as their only DD and do tend to race it quite often.

i understand they arent necessary, but is there any reason i shouldnt do them? i know im unfamiliar with builds, but i have a mechanic at my disposal who is extremely familiar with all parts of the car, thats one reason i am taking this project on myself. sleeving the block intrigues me, and i would really like to do it as long as there are no adverse effects.

are you reccommending the carillos or the pauters? hard to tell from your post.

also, what oil pump would you guys reccomend and should i replace the water pump?

Homemade WRX · 03-30-2009, 03:20 PM

I'd run Pauters and they are what I sell with my kits and motors. They are your best quality and strength bang for the buck IMO.

I love sleeves too and have never had an issue with them dropping on any builds...however there still is a chance of them dropping. This would require pulling the motor down, decking and putting on a thicker HG...then tossing it back together. Its down time and why I say not for people who this is their only DD.

I use an 11mm pump but deburr it. Yes, new waterpump.

The Satch · 03-30-2009, 03:29 PM

I have a second dd for the summer, if the sleeves drop will they do it in the first two months?

Homemade WRX · 03-30-2009, 08:16 PM

maybe, maybe not...usually dropping comes from overheating however and/or poor machining and non clean surfaces prior to dropping the sleeves.

The Satch · 03-30-2009, 08:25 PM

i think im going to go ahead and do sleeves and what will be will be. any reccomendations on pump manufacturers(yes, cosworth, i know)? and why a 11mm pump and not a 12?

Homemade WRX · 03-30-2009, 10:28 PM

you can run the 12mm if you'd like. I'd read some of the threads on the 12mm first and also note the added cost too...does cosworth actually modify the 12mm pump at all? do they do like cobb and just debur the edges?

I LOVE sleeves and wish you the best of luck with yours...now back to working on the sleeved EG on the engine stand.

03-26-2009, 04:13 PM	#1
The Satch Scooby Specialist Member#: 149174 Join Date: May 2007 Location: oh, you have a bf? Vehicle: that 's cool. i have a goldfish.	Couple motor questions............ Please excuse me if i am blatantly ignorant, im a newb at this and this will be my first time building a motor. i have read the piston FAQ and it was very helpful, but i still have a couple questions. I will be doing this myself with assistance from my father, a career mechanic. I am set on doing this myself, i have to learn sometime and i am very excited to do it. I will be doing rods and piston, possibly sleeves as well. I am 90% set on getting forged CP pistons, 99 or 100mm, and have not yet looked into rods. I talked to a guy at LA Sleeves and am considering getting a set of cast iron sleeves that will essentially close the deck. I plan on going rotated on this motor eventually, looking upwards of 500 horse, that is my reason for building the motor. now for the questions: 1. What are the best coatings to get on the pistons? 2. Please reccomend a good set of rods, im kinda lost here. 3. Is sleeving the motor going overboard? do i need to spend the 600 on the closed deck sleeves? 4. Anything else you guys want to throw in? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

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03-26-2009, 04:45 PM	#2
stay_cold Scooby Newbie Member#: 187425 Join Date: Aug 2008 Chapter/Region: MAIC Vehicle: 2007 VF39'd EWG'd DPS tuned street machine	1. I don't really have an answer for that but DSport had a really good article on this like 2 or 3 issues ago (I'll try to find a link for you) 2. Carillo rods, if you're doing the work yourself spend more $ on parts since you'll be saving on labor 3. better safe than sorry I'd sleeve it if I were you

03-28-2009, 09:00 AM	#3
The Satch Scooby Specialist Member#: 149174 Join Date: May 2007 Location: oh, you have a bf? Vehicle: that 's cool. i have a goldfish.	bump. please chime in guys, theres a first time for everyone and it would be nice to have some friendly advice.

03-28-2009, 04:17 PM	#4
hustleshark206 Scooby Specialist Member#: 182227 Join Date: Jun 2008 Chapter/Region: NWIC Location: seattle, WA/ Jackson WY Vehicle: 2000 MPS Built RS 1991 Leggy Turbo EJ22t	We need more info from you. Is this a daily driver? Are you going to track it? What about built/ ported heads? What boost pressure will you be runnning? Is your target 500chp or 500whp? 500whp you will probably want to sleeve the block but there are plenty of people runnign 400+ whp without sleeved blocks. You will need to double that price (about $1200 is what I was quoted) for sleeves if you include the machine work Carillo rods are very nice but more expensive. Look into Eagle or K1 rods they are a little cheaper. 500whp is pushin it for eagle rods though. Or Cosworth...................mmmmmmm Cosworth. Man, have fun with the build! It is really a great project. Take lots of pictures and keep us posted.

03-30-2009, 12:35 PM	#6
The Satch Scooby Specialist Member#: 149174 Join Date: May 2007 Location: oh, you have a bf? Vehicle: that 's cool. i have a goldfish.	see post #3. forgot to add i will be running the HFS-6 meth injection kit as well.

03-30-2009, 01:37 PM	#7
[email protected] Auto Scooby Newbie Member#: 189490 Join Date: Sep 2008 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Baltimore, MD	If you are trying to make 500whp with meth, I do a skirt coating to reduce the friction, and I will do an aftermarket rods, like a carrilo or plauter. You do not need sleeves, if everything done correctly you will never break your stock sleeves, plus since this is your first time build try to keep it simple.

03-30-2009, 02:16 PM	#8
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Mooresville, NC Vehicle: 96 in the garage search FIRST, then PM!!!	I agree with what Artie said...I've used the JE coatings with my pistons and they are, nice...for a little more money (abot $40 and shipping too and from PA) is Swaintech PC-9 and Gold top coating. I'm a fan of Pauter since their machining is always spot on, like Carillo but for the extra $600 over Pauter, Carillo's are lighter. Sleeves won't be needed for 500whp unless you have a tuner who likes really agressive timing. I only recommend sleeves to customers who are familiar with builds, don't have this as their only DD and do tend to race it quite often.

03-30-2009, 03:20 PM	#10
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Mooresville, NC Vehicle: 96 in the garage search FIRST, then PM!!!	I'd run Pauters and they are what I sell with my kits and motors. They are your best quality and strength bang for the buck IMO. I love sleeves too and have never had an issue with them dropping on any builds...however there still is a chance of them dropping. This would require pulling the motor down, decking and putting on a thicker HG...then tossing it back together. Its down time and why I say not for people who this is their only DD. I use an 11mm pump but deburr it. Yes, new waterpump.

03-30-2009, 03:29 PM	#11
The Satch Scooby Specialist Member#: 149174 Join Date: May 2007 Location: oh, you have a bf? Vehicle: that 's cool. i have a goldfish.	I have a second dd for the summer, if the sleeves drop will they do it in the first two months?

03-30-2009, 08:16 PM	#12
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Mooresville, NC Vehicle: 96 in the garage search FIRST, then PM!!!	maybe, maybe not...usually dropping comes from overheating however and/or poor machining and non clean surfaces prior to dropping the sleeves.

03-30-2009, 08:25 PM	#13
The Satch Scooby Specialist Member#: 149174 Join Date: May 2007 Location: oh, you have a bf? Vehicle: that 's cool. i have a goldfish.	i think im going to go ahead and do sleeves and what will be will be. any reccomendations on pump manufacturers(yes, cosworth, i know)? and why a 11mm pump and not a 12?

03-30-2009, 10:28 PM	#14
Homemade WRX Scooby Guru Member#: 33782 Join Date: Mar 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Mooresville, NC Vehicle: 96 in the garage search FIRST, then PM!!!	you can run the 12mm if you'd like. I'd read some of the threads on the 12mm first and also note the added cost too...does cosworth actually modify the 12mm pump at all? do they do like cobb and just debur the edges? I LOVE sleeves and wish you the best of luck with yours...now back to working on the sleeved EG on the engine stand.