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Old 01-03-2018, 11:23 AM   #476
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Legal Separation --> Divorce

Does anybody have any experience going from a Legal Separation to a full divorce? My ex and I are legally separated so that she could stay on my health insurance. If you convert within 2 years it should be a relatively simple process. However, it has been 2 1/2 years and we never completed the process. From what I can tell we have to file a new petition (as opposed to just a motion) but I am not really sure what that will mean as far as pain in my ass.

Will be going down to the courthouse tomorrow to ask in person, but thought you guys might have some experience here.

Thanks
Totally depends on the local laws, everywhere seems to be different on this front.
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Old 01-03-2018, 12:03 PM   #477
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Didn't you guys like, just reach your agreement (sorbee)? She's already trying to add/change stuff?

Seems bad to be screwing with things so soon - is there anything wrong with just "call whenever you want, but don't force it"?
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Old 01-03-2018, 03:08 PM   #478
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Didn't you guys like, just reach your agreement (sorbee)? She's already trying to add/change stuff?

Seems bad to be screwing with things so soon - is there anything wrong with just "call whenever you want, but don't force it"?
Yeah, this is actually the first week of our 2-2-3 pattern. Which was another thing I mentioned is that we should give it a couple weeks of this new setup and see where we are at. She tried to play the "some people I've talked to" card which is her way at trying to pressure me into doing what is seen as common wisdom. Except that has been a tactic she used to gaslight me for 20 years and I'm finally onto it and ignore it now.

I'm not really sure what to make of things once again as we'd previously said we wouldn't change stuff around until it got closer to the house sale but then yesterday she pulled herself off my auto insurance policy and got her own. And I had sent an email yesterday talking about needing her tax docs when she gets them and also mentioned the adjustments to the joint account we pay into each month to pay our bills and never heard back. Back to no communication!

On the plus side, with our new 2-2-3 schedule I'll really only see her once a week at gymnastics.
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Old 01-03-2018, 04:20 PM   #479
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Yeah, this is actually the first week of our 2-2-3 pattern. Which was another thing I mentioned is that we should give it a couple weeks of this new setup and see where we are at. She tried to play the "some people I've talked to" card which is her way at trying to pressure me into doing what is seen as common wisdom. Except that has been a tactic she used to gaslight me for 20 years and I'm finally onto it and ignore it now.

I'm not really sure what to make of things once again as we'd previously said we wouldn't change stuff around until it got closer to the house sale but then yesterday she pulled herself off my auto insurance policy and got her own. And I had sent an email yesterday talking about needing her tax docs when she gets them and also mentioned the adjustments to the joint account we pay into each month to pay our bills and never heard back. Back to no communication!

On the plus side, with our new 2-2-3 schedule I'll really only see her once a week at gymnastics.

Yeesh. Sounds like the sooner you can get everything into an agreement registered with the court, the better. That would drive me nuts having her constantly want to change everything. At least now you can say that "some people I've talked to" said the daily calls did more harm than good, and you should just let your daughter call if she wants to.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:10 PM   #480
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Originally Posted by flat_tire View Post
Legal Separation --> Divorce

Does anybody have any experience going from a Legal Separation to a full divorce? My ex and I are legally separated so that she could stay on my health insurance. If you convert within 2 years it should be a relatively simple process. However, it has been 2 1/2 years and we never completed the process. From what I can tell we have to file a new petition (as opposed to just a motion) but I am not really sure what that will mean as far as pain in my ass.

Will be going down to the courthouse tomorrow to ask in person, but thought you guys might have some experience here.

Thanks
I did just that. Filed legal separation to have it all in writing "maintenance and support" - It finalized assets, alimony, child support, and visitation schedule. Both of us had to go to court and agree, etc and it was signed by the judge. At that point we could date, sleep with other people, etc with no ramifications... we only couldn't remarry until the divorce was final. After the year separation was complete we then petitioned/filed for divorce and I didn't even go to court. My attorney showed up on my behalf and that was that. As far as health benefits go... she stayed on mine until the divorce was final.
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Old 01-05-2018, 12:40 PM   #481
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One thing to look into with the health insurance is that some policies allow you to keep on an ex. My dad had to deal with that for quite a few years. Isn't always the case, but if that is a major concern something you could look into.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:08 PM   #482
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You have one of those too, huh?

I'm hoping he ends up more levelheaded, but seems to be going the opposite direction
Oh yeah, I'm still waiting to have this "talk" that he told my wife we were going to have when we started dating. Supposedly when we were done this talk, I was going to go back home and tell her that it was over and she's not to call me anymore.

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Old 01-05-2018, 08:12 PM   #483
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I did just that. Filed legal separation to have it all in writing "maintenance and support" - It finalized assets, alimony, child support, and visitation schedule. Both of us had to go to court and agree, etc and it was signed by the judge. At that point we could date, sleep with other people, etc with no ramifications... we only couldn't remarry until the divorce was final. After the year separation was complete we then petitioned/filed for divorce and I didn't even go to court. My attorney showed up on my behalf and that was that. As far as health benefits go... she stayed on mine until the divorce was final.
This is what we did, but the only difference is that we did not complete the petition within the required time frame which is 2 years. Unfortunately this means we have to complete the entire process all over again. We didn't use lawyers the first time and we won't need to this time either. Not a huge pain but still a hassle.

Oh well.
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Old 04-26-2018, 12:12 PM   #484
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Since I need to vent ...

We are close on the Separation Agreement. There was a minor explosion on my end when she suddenly up and decided on Revision 3 to ask for a large sum of cash because I had a higher retirement account value. I was pretty unhappy that they suddenly put that in without any kind of discussion, but eventually we made them see the light that it wasn't something a judge would order so don't be dumb.

The main sticking point we have now is around some language in 2 sections. We are on revision 4 and each time my attorney and I have tried to craft the language to be more in line with what they want and each time it gets sent back with the exact same language from them. Like, no exaggeration the EXACT same. I mean after we reject it a couple times you probably should realize it won't fly. My attorney asked her attorney what was up and basically his answer was "That is what she wants." Yes, we figured that out, but you need a bit more of a why than that. If she sticks to it has to be that way I have to figure out whether to litigate and go down that hellhole or let it pass and employ plan B which is basically to file as is and then in 6 months litigate on only that issue since it is modifiable due to being about our daughter. Not loving either one and even my attorney can't figure out what her hang up is. Beyond the issue of control it seems remarkably dumb to be fighting and be entirely unwilling to offer any variation, but she is driven by emotion and not logic so it doesn't have to make sense.

I also had to employ the "we aren't going to keep playing ping pong on this stuff" tactic with her side and told them we'd be doing discovery and depositions and this was going to be a long and unpleasant mess if they didn't stop playing games. Luckily they heard the message and came around on most things. I've conceded on a LOT I am not happy about, but I'm trying to keep the ball moving. There are items that really have bothered me to let go, but I've sucked it up. But I did tell my attorney that if we go to trial I'm going full nuclear and fighting for everything I want and that there are things I'll reveal and people I'll depose that directly relate to things we are arguing about that will be super ugly and she will hate but won't be able to stop. I gave my attorney a slight taste so she knew I wasn't bluffing nor being malicious and she saw how the info would be pertinent and said hopefully we won't have to go there.
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Old 04-26-2018, 12:25 PM   #485
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That sounds really unpleasant. I'd offer condolences but apparently English has relegated that to be about someone dying--straight sympathy will have to do.
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:20 PM   #486
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Yeah, I was admittedly dumb. She had said she wanted to keep costs down by having us work out a bunch of stuff and avoid going through our lawyers for everything. And what ended up happening is that I was very open and transparent and told her a lot about the changes we wanted to make and why. She then went to her attorney and pushed back against it all and also she pulled a 180 on stuff we had agreed to previously.

A lot of people in my life had been telling me I was being far too nice and that I shouldn't be so honest with her but I was, naively, hoping that we could keep it pleasant and smooth. Her most recent attempt also included asking for 100% of the items from the first few years of our daughter's life. I definitely feel dumb for thinking that she wasn't such a ****ty person.

I had to have a bit of a come to Jesus meeting with my lawyer saying that we'd been nice thus far and that it was over. I told her that if they kept playing stupid games with the agreement (things like on revision 3 suddenly changing language they hadn't complained about in the previous 2 revisions and trying to insert words that entirely undid the whole purpose of the paragraph as though I wouldn't notice) that we'd go to trial. My attorney actually said about one item "Well, that isn't something you'd litigate over because it would cost several thousand dollars." and I was like "No, I don't care. We are done giving ground."

I feel very burned by the whole process. I've not once gone back on anything or tried to play tricks or anything and my hope was that we could do this in a fashion that we wouldn't hate each other since we'll be in one another's life for many years to come, but at every opportunity she has been dishonest and sneaky. I hate having to send everything through our lawyers since it seems dumb and expensive, but I'm now left with no option. While clearly the divorce process itself is a sign that there isn't much trust left between us I wasn't yet at absolute zero, but now I am. Which is pretty depressing.

On the plus side my overall happiness level is higher than it has been in years and my relationship with my daughter is fantastic. She is handling everything amazingly well and she has surprised me so often with how well she has coped. On my weekends she and I have tons of fun and not having someone constantly judging me and my parenting has really allowed us to be a lot more free and relaxed. Though I do still get texts from the ex reminding me about things like making sure she eats a good breakfast before softball or dresses in layers. But on the plus side, now IDGAF and ignore them!
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Old 04-26-2018, 01:57 PM   #487
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Pretty sure you do not want to do the "accept it for now because we can modify it later", because your acceptance of it now can be used against you when you try to modify it later.

Stay strong, and all that.
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Old 04-26-2018, 02:31 PM   #488
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Since I need to vent ...

We are close on the Separation Agreement. There was a minor explosion on my end when she suddenly up and decided on Revision 3 to ask for a large sum of cash because I had a higher retirement account value. I was pretty unhappy that they suddenly put that in without any kind of discussion, but eventually we made them see the light that it wasn't something a judge would order so don't be dumb.

The main sticking point we have now is around some language in 2 sections. We are on revision 4 and each time my attorney and I have tried to craft the language to be more in line with what they want and each time it gets sent back with the exact same language from them. Like, no exaggeration the EXACT same. I mean after we reject it a couple times you probably should realize it won't fly. My attorney asked her attorney what was up and basically his answer was "That is what she wants." Yes, we figured that out, but you need a bit more of a why than that. If she sticks to it has to be that way I have to figure out whether to litigate and go down that hellhole or let it pass and employ plan B which is basically to file as is and then in 6 months litigate on only that issue since it is modifiable due to being about our daughter. Not loving either one and even my attorney can't figure out what her hang up is. Beyond the issue of control it seems remarkably dumb to be fighting and be entirely unwilling to offer any variation, but she is driven by emotion and not logic so it doesn't have to make sense.

I also had to employ the "we aren't going to keep playing ping pong on this stuff" tactic with her side and told them we'd be doing discovery and depositions and this was going to be a long and unpleasant mess if they didn't stop playing games. Luckily they heard the message and came around on most things. I've conceded on a LOT I am not happy about, but I'm trying to keep the ball moving. There are items that really have bothered me to let go, but I've sucked it up. But I did tell my attorney that if we go to trial I'm going full nuclear and fighting for everything I want and that there are things I'll reveal and people I'll depose that directly relate to things we are arguing about that will be super ugly and she will hate but won't be able to stop. I gave my attorney a slight taste so she knew I wasn't bluffing nor being malicious and she saw how the info would be pertinent and said hopefully we won't have to go there.
Seems that is the best option from the get go. No use trying to be the nice guy in any of this; go for everything you can get, have her feel threatened, and either you both come to a simple compromise or go to war. Otherwise, you're just drawing out the inevitable.
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Old 04-26-2018, 03:27 PM   #489
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just keep adding things that you and your representation would like to do discovery process on.

just pile on the future work for them and they'll decide "yah, nah.."
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Old 04-26-2018, 03:33 PM   #490
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I had been letting things slide, like for instance how she used her work AMEX to buy stuff for herself to the tune of over $8000 over 3 years. When things were going smoothly I was going to let that just slide. But beyond the really uncomfortable stuff I'd be putting her family through in depositions, I'd also be going after all that stuff too. She has incentive to get her head out of her ass and play nice since I've been beyond nice thus far. Though I've certainly not tipped my hand to her about what I'd do, I've certainly vaguely hinted at it and let her know I'm prepared to go nasty.
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Old 04-26-2018, 04:24 PM   #491
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Sucks being nice didn't work out. Nuke it from space, it's the only way to be sure.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:26 PM   #492
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OMG we STILL don't have the Separation Agreement finalized. Even her attorney is frustrated with her. She is actually arguing over wanting language in that represents a couple hundred dollars, and she has probably spent a thousand dollars on her lawyer dealing with it. Her lawyer called my lawyer and told her to write up a summary of our position on it and he'll go over it with her and get her to sign.

She is complaining that she is worried about wanting to make sure we have an end date for splitting some bills because the house isn't listed yet, but I've said all along I won't list the house without the SA signed since it was one of the few bits of leverage I had to keep her moving things forward. So she is playing against herself here and blaming me. That first child support payment she has to make to me is going to be the sweetest money I've ever received.

My lawyer literally said "your ex wife is really stupid". So the good news is that her lawyer, my lawyer, and I am all on the same page with this.
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Old 05-21-2018, 01:52 PM   #493
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Dont give up, you almost got this. Even her lawyer is going to turn on her

I was talking with mom yesterday and she was telling me how one of her friends is getting about $800 a month from her ex's retirement. What? I totally find that BS how after divorce, she even gets a cut of that retirement pie.


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Old 05-21-2018, 02:03 PM   #494
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I was talking with mom yesterday and she was telling me how one of her friends is getting about $800 a month from her ex's retirement. What? I totally find that BS how after divorce, she even gets a cut of that retirement pie.
It all depends. Did they both work? Did she pay some bills thus allowing him to put more into his retirement? Was she a stay at home mom (ie not working/putting money into retirement) because that was their deal - she takes care of the kids, he takes care of the retirement?

The one that irks me is the "accustomed to a lifestyle" so they get a bunch of your future money. That's some BS. Again though depends on "their deal".

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Old 05-21-2018, 02:49 PM   #495
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The one that irks me is the "accustomed to a lifestyle" so they get a bunch of your future money. That's some BS. Again though depends on "their deal".
That is the one that is the dumbest of all. You simply can't avoid your style of living trending downward when you suddenly double all your bills. If you had $200k shared income and want to maintain the same living standard your mortgage and all other things would have to double, but that $200k doesn't change.

I am ending up paying out a pretty decent sized amount from my retirement which sucks. But within 6 years I'll make it up via child support. Though it still is very annoying that her actual line to me was that we'd both keep our retirement accounts and then she recently told me we'd never discussed it when she suddenly wanted money.

Funny how all the stuff she said at the beginning has changed since money got involved. On the plus side, she decided to go away this past weekend with a friend and I was there for both my daughter's softball games. Oh, which parent has not missed a single gymnastics class or softball game/practice ever? Yeah, me. But I'm "lucky she decided to let me have 50/50 custody", you know since that isn't effectively the legal baseline now. But nah, she totally let me.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:05 PM   #496
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If you're married more than 10 years, you get Social Security benefits based on your ex. I think it is a reasonable policy. I'm not sure what happens with private pensions.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:40 PM   #497
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If you're married more than 10 years, you get Social Security benefits based on your ex. I think it is a reasonable policy. I'm not sure what happens with private pensions.
QDRO.
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:52 PM   #498
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QDRO.
this!
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Old 05-21-2018, 03:55 PM   #499
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That is the one that is the dumbest of all. You simply can't avoid your style of living trending downward when you suddenly double all your bills. If you had $200k shared income and want to maintain the same living standard your mortgage and all other things would have to double, but that $200k doesn't change.

I am ending up paying out a pretty decent sized amount from my retirement which sucks. But within 6 years I'll make it up via child support. Though it still is very annoying that her actual line to me was that we'd both keep our retirement accounts and then she recently told me we'd never discussed it when she suddenly wanted money.

Funny how all the stuff she said at the beginning has changed since money got involved. On the plus side, she decided to go away this past weekend with a friend and I was there for both my daughter's softball games. Oh, which parent has not missed a single gymnastics class or softball game/practice ever? Yeah, me. But I'm "lucky she decided to let me have 50/50 custody", you know since that isn't effectively the legal baseline now. But nah, she totally let me.
just as an fyi to get the alimony,if there is any, done this year. any SA signed after 12/31/18 will be in the new rules and not deductible and not incurable. Talk to your lawyer and/or accountant about this. need to have language in there about future modifications. This is a big thing going on now a lot of clients are dealing with it.

I still have cases going on from 3+ years ago when i started at this company
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Old 05-21-2018, 07:09 PM   #500
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in two months my alimony goes down by $1K/mo

its like im getting a raise
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