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Old 12-19-2020, 10:05 AM   #1
ktulu990
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Default Fire Lock Block Failure?

Hey guys,
I did some searching and can't find anything on any Fire Lock head gasket failures. I'm thinking of pulling the trigger on an IAG stage 4 Tuff block and want to make sure it's worth the extra cost vs another closed deck option like Outfront V4 Ultra.
Thanks,
Matt
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:51 AM   #2
KillerBMotorsport
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Good luck. There are so many factors that can play into what the head sealing interface can fail, tune, bad fuel, lifted heads, insufficient supporting mods, distortion, poor assembly, poor machine work, etc... You're going to find all kinds of different opinions and experiences and none with quantitative data. I like the idea of looking for independent data (NOT from the people trying to sell you something), but real data will be hard to come by because you'll only find it on the upper echelon of professional competitors, and they tend to hold their card close to the chest.

I prefer copper o-rings on a cast iron sleeve's flange, and the only failure we've experienced was from a head lifting due to going lean a lean condition.
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Old 12-19-2020, 11:27 AM   #3
ktulu990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Good luck. There are so many factors that can play into what the head sealing interface can fail, tune, bad fuel, lifted heads, insufficient supporting mods, distortion, poor assembly, poor machine work, etc... You're going to find all kinds of different opinions and experiences and none with quantitative data. I like the idea of looking for independent data (NOT from the people trying to sell you something), but real data will be hard to come by because you'll only find it on the upper echelon of professional competitors, and they tend to hold their card close to the chest.

I prefer copper o-rings on a cast iron sleeve's flange, and the only failure we've experienced was from a head lifting due to going lean a lean condition.
I appreciate the feedback. Big fan of your products, I have a bunch.

I haven't been able to find any info at all. Do you have knowledge of a fire ring failure and what the suspected failure was?

Thanks,
Matt
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Old 12-19-2020, 12:30 PM   #4
KillerBMotorsport
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktulu990 View Post
I haven't been able to find any info at all. Do you have knowledge of a fire ring failure and what the suspected failure was?
'Fire Ring' is a generic term. I like the copper o-ring method on a sleeve's flange as the hard flange forces the copper and aluminum head to each other better than splitting that force among 3 soft surfaces. Just my personal preference.

Yes, but as I said before, you're only going to get speculative conjecture and opinion on why the failure occurred, no quantitative data driven facts. Your best bet is to go with a builder that has a good reputation for the process you are considering.
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Old 12-21-2020, 01:19 AM   #5
user1029
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HTA86 E85 Kel272s Cos IM

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I ran 45,000 miles at >600whp 37-40psi on an IAG closed deck and their regular copper Oring (before they came out with the firelock gasket) without any problems. Engine died because a damn GSC valve spring broke
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Old 12-21-2020, 01:23 PM   #6
subaru_gc8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user1029 View Post
I ran 45,000 miles at >600whp 37-40psi on an IAG closed deck and their regular copper Oring (before they came out with the firelock gasket) without any problems. Engine died because a damn GSC valve spring broke
Valve spring?? wow what were you reving the engine to?
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Old 12-22-2020, 01:09 AM   #7
Jedi03
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ya you start to find the other weak points in your setup when doing something like that...i have been impressed with the capability since i heard about it at an early age...have never gotten to those power levels but seems like a great way to help with the head to block sealing
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Old 12-22-2020, 08:52 AM   #8
user1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
Valve spring?? wow what were you reving the engine to?
Just 8k, cracked on the way cruising to Whole Foods bent a valve but thank goodness the valve didn't drop. Lesson is to never by GSC beehive valve springs multiple failures by other people were brought up in my thread

Engine happy as a clam with 800whp on Ferrea dual springs
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Old 12-22-2020, 01:17 PM   #9
ktulu990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by user1029 View Post
Just 8k, cracked on the way cruising to Whole Foods bent a valve but thank goodness the valve didn't drop. Lesson is to never by GSC beehive valve springs multiple failures by other people were brought up in my thread

Engine happy as a clam with 800whp on Ferrea dual springs
Glad you mentioned GSC beehive springs having an issue. I was planning to go that route now I'll have to do some more research.
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Old 01-15-2021, 01:32 PM   #10
Twitch_PA
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Default Motor

I'm refreshing my firelock block and stage 5 heads if you would wanna save a little money and depending on where you live.
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Old 01-15-2021, 02:21 PM   #11
murrdogg24
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:15 PM   #12
Dakota D
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i have iags firelock block and i love it,beating on it at 30 psi every day with a gen 2 3076r and e85 and no hassles not very informative but i feel like not very many of us have it so i thought i would add my two cents haha
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Old 01-22-2021, 03:29 PM   #13
ktulu990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dakota D View Post
i have iags firelock block and i love it,beating on it at 30 psi every day with a gen 2 3076r and e85 and no hassles not very informative but i feel like not very many of us have it so i thought i would add my two cents haha
Good stuff. Thanks a lot
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Old 01-25-2021, 11:00 AM   #14
Jedi03
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early in my mechanic life ~age 14 or 15, my uncle brought this topic up to me saying its been used forever...made it sound like it was to help poor machining or headgasket design...haven't done it myself but its what the high hp guys are doing! looks cool regardless!
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