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Old 09-06-2006, 07:52 PM   #26
REX8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amukaoen View Post
id say 210-225 whp for TD04 is average. So you're definatly spot on. Cobb OTS Stage 2 map probably claims the majority of these users.
Which is 225. So who's on EM with 210??? No one. And then all the tuned TD04's are 230+

So again, isn't that average low?

If you are counting stock ECU users, the average is probably 175-180, as there are tenths of thousands of stock WRX's runnign around.

So if its with EM, how could the average be 15 whp LOWER than the most basic OTS EM???

Average TD04 on EM is at minimum 220-235....
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Old 09-06-2006, 08:13 PM   #27
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The other problem here is which dyno we're measuring on. Mustang, Dynapack, butt dyno?
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Old 09-06-2006, 08:14 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolster View Post
The other problem here is which dyno we're measuring on. Mustang, Dynapack, butt dyno?
and have the results been converted to chp*?

(Crawford hp)

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Old 09-06-2006, 09:33 PM   #29
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**EDIT**

Ok, I added a stock Td04 column, this is just a plain old 2.0L wrx. 150 - 185 whp, and spool around 2800.

Some people said their stage 2 spools a bit quicker, so the second Td 04 is with basic mods (exhaust, EM). I put the spool lower, around 2300 and up, while the whp was increased to 210 - 230.

I hope the makes everyone happy.
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Old 09-06-2006, 11:05 PM   #30
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a td04 DOES NOT spool under 2700-2800 without extensive pnp'ing and custom tuning. If you actually take a log you will see the td04 spools at around 3100. if you are looking at the correlation between your tach and your boost gauge, you are wrong. you need to log to find correct values.
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Old 09-06-2006, 11:43 PM   #31
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I think this thread is worthless. "Spool" means absolutely jack squat. Now hear me out on this one.

There is a thread that shows my VF23 spool log against a VF22 log against an FP Green comparing manifold pressure, maf volts, g/s, RPM ect. Both VF turbos spooled almost EXACTLY the same in terms of airflow in g/s but the VF22 lagged behind in pressure by about 300 RPM or so. The Green lagged behind in pressure but surpassed the VF series in airflow after a certain RPM. Is my VF22 going to lag because it produces less boost but makes more airflow than the TD04? Will the Green be the same?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1061674

If we want a good comparison, plot when each turbo makes 200 g/s of air and its peak g/s and at what IAT and manifold pressure. Do it in 5th gear and list what mods as well and then you have a really fair comparison.

Your spool for all the VF series turbos should also be no more than 3500 on any of them.
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Old 09-07-2006, 12:58 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdgrimm View Post
a td04 DOES NOT spool under 2700-2800 without extensive pnp'ing and custom tuning. If you actually take a log you will see the td04 spools at around 3100. if you are looking at the correlation between your tach and your boost gauge, you are wrong. you need to log to find correct values.


my logs dont lie (although, i dont have a boost gauge *i know i know, its on the list of ***** i need to buy*)

it shocked me at first to find out i hit boost that early, but considering what i have done (PnP'd EVERYTHING, GM bcs, APS inlet+APS cai, Cobb AP + ST), its not out of the question.
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:06 AM   #33
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You should mention that these figures are on pump gas too..........
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:07 AM   #34
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I have an 05 with an invidia uppipe, cobb downpipe, and bosal catback.

With the Cobb OTS stage 2 map, my stock turbo is fully spooled at
15.5 - 16 psi by 2900-3000 rpms in 2nd and 3rd gear.

hope this helps

p.s. i run mobil 93 oct. in ny
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:46 AM   #35
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These are still 'rough' estimates....

But adding in PSI would be a great idea as well....

For example, I wouldn't mind an 18g that doesn't hit a certain psi as long as it keeps up with a 16g.

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Old 09-07-2006, 12:45 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdvma View Post
I think this thread is worthless. "Spool" means absolutely jack squat. Now hear me out on this one.

There is a thread that shows my VF23 spool log against a VF22 log against an FP Green comparing manifold pressure, maf volts, g/s, RPM ect. Both VF turbos spooled almost EXACTLY the same in terms of airflow in g/s but the VF22 lagged behind in pressure by about 300 RPM or so. The Green lagged behind in pressure but surpassed the VF series in airflow after a certain RPM. Is my VF22 going to lag because it produces less boost but makes more airflow than the TD04? Will the Green be the same?

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1061674

If we want a good comparison, plot when each turbo makes 200 g/s of air and its peak g/s and at what IAT and manifold pressure. Do it in 5th gear and list what mods as well and then you have a really fair comparison.

Your spool for all the VF series turbos should also be no more than 3500 on any of them.

I really think you're looking wayyy to much into this. I looked over the thread you linked, and yeah, it's got a great comparo with plots, pressures, etc. But it would take days, probably weeks, to compile all the people's logs around nasioc, plot them, scale them, and make sure they're all in equal gears/mods/etc. I'm sorry, I just don't have that amount of free time on my hands.

I was doing some independent research on turbos, decided to just type up some of the info that I'd gathered, and voila. This thread was not meant for an in depth analysis of each turbo, merely a starting point for newbs such as myself.

I will more than gladly change, add, extract, data from the above chart. Hell, I know it's far from perfect.

**Edit**
I increased the spool times on the TD 04
Added the VF series information

Anyone want to add an educated blurb about the VF39?

Last edited by WoohooRX; 09-07-2006 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:08 PM   #37
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I have the big16G turbo. Full spool is about 3300-3500rpm in 3rd/4th gear. WHP estimate on average is 280-300.
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:15 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
I have the big16G turbo. Full spool is about 3300-3500rpm in 3rd/4th gear. WHP estimate on average is 280-300.
3300 rpm? without logs this info is to be taken with a huge chunk of salt...
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Old 09-07-2006, 01:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akira02rex View Post
I have the big16G turbo. Full spool is about 3300-3500rpm in 3rd/4th gear. WHP estimate on average is 280-300.
That's an awesome spool time. Do you have anything done to it? P&P, alky/meth, etc.
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:09 PM   #40
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"Spool"...as noted earlier, what is it? When the turbo starts "whistling" audibly? When it starts to show positive pressure on boost gauge? When the turbo has acheived it's max pressure?

Reading thru the responses, it's clear that folks are looking at it with different understandings. Adding an exclusive definition for "spool" to the first post would be great.
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:30 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRgr View Post
"Spool"...as noted earlier, what is it? When the turbo starts "whistling" audibly? When it starts to show positive pressure on boost gauge? When the turbo has acheived it's max pressure?

Reading thru the responses, it's clear that folks are looking at it with different understandings. Adding an exclusive definition for "spool" to the first post would be great.
I really didn't think that it would be such as issue at first. I mean, even at 3100 rpm in a stock car you can feel the turbo "kick" in. I can hear it whistling while in the mid to high 2K rpms.

I added a little definition to the top, hope that helps.
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Old 09-07-2006, 03:33 PM   #42
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vf23 spools quicker than the 34.
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Old 09-07-2006, 05:19 PM   #43
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My small 16g PNP by deadbolt hits 17lbs by 3700 in 91 degree east coast humidity.

on a dyno it did 280whp dynapack XXtuning


02 wrx wagon 95,000 miles young. this was done on 3rd gear
PNP small 16g
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Old 09-07-2006, 05:27 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SQC120 View Post
vf23 spools quicker than the 34.
I put it up there, anyone know of average spool times/whp? I'm not too familiar with this turbo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by elsanto View Post
My small 16g PNP by deadbolt hits 17lbs by 3700 in 91 degree east coast humidity.

on a dyno it did 280whp dynapack XXtuning

02 wrx wagon 95,000 miles young. this was done on 3rd gear
PNP small 16g
TXS v1 IC
Pinks
Warlbro
ECUTEK (tuned by xx)
TGV deletes
I put the spool of the small 16g at 3500 - 3700, and whp a little less than the evoIII, 240-280. That seem about right?
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Old 09-07-2006, 05:32 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRgr View Post
"Spool"...as noted earlier, what is it? When the turbo starts "whistling" audibly? When it starts to show positive pressure on boost gauge? When the turbo has acheived it's max pressure?

Reading thru the responses, it's clear that folks are looking at it with different understandings. Adding an exclusive definition for "spool" to the first post would be great.

i guess i was assuming "spool" meant the rpm when the turbo hits max boost.
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Old 09-07-2006, 05:45 PM   #46
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Is "average" intended to be "average, with an off the shelf tune"?

Maybe you could have a "max" column as well, indicating what it would max out at on pump gas with all supporting intake/exhaust mods.

Oh yeah - I would include a PnP TD04 too, not that it's a lot different.

In general I think you have a good idea, other than nitpicky people like me trying to turn it into something more scientific

john
(247 whp on an unmodified stocker)
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Old 09-07-2006, 05:46 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoohooRX View Post

I put the spool of the small 16g at 3500 - 3700, and whp a little less than the evoIII, 240-280. That seem about right?

3500 seems kind of low. then again that pull is with a stock STI axleback (on a tbe) so yah 3500 could be done. I'll put a better flowing axleback on and do a pull someday... in theory the evo3 should put down much more power so i dont know how it would relate to that..
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Old 09-07-2006, 05:55 PM   #48
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there is NOO chance that even the smallest 16g should make less than 275 whp even if it's an auto tranny for God's sake so just put 280 instead of 240-280...240 is for like the stock turbo
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Old 09-07-2006, 06:22 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WoohooRX View Post
It's important to keep in mind that everyone has access to different tuners. I really think you guys have really good tunes. The general concensus out there, is that the VF34 is the quickest spooling of the vf series turbos. Followed by the VF39, and then lastly the VF22.

I just put those numbers up because it seems like, from reading a ton of threads on these turbos, that the 39/22 are later spoolers, but tend to have a higher top end.

If some more people chime in with their comments/setups/results then we can change it.

i just dont like the bad rep the vf22 gets as a laggy turbo.
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Old 09-07-2006, 06:51 PM   #50
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hurray for the OP

this is a great idea and thanks a ton for doing all that work for us lazy simpletons. STICKY ! ! must have taken hours. thanks again.
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