Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Tuesday March 2, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Transmission (AT/MT) & Driveline

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-01-2016, 06:51 PM   #26
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

I have no opinion as I have never used it; I would run a Google search first, then ask in the transmission forum.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 11-01-2016, 06:58 PM   #27
Motown65
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 313291
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default Rebuilding the R180

Sorry posted in the wrong thread..

Last edited by Motown65; 11-04-2016 at 10:29 PM.
Motown65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-05-2016, 09:18 PM   #28
Motown65
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 313291
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default

Any tips on removing the outer bearing area on the side plate?
Motown65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2016, 02:35 PM   #29
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

You mean removing the bearing itself? You either need a press or you need to cut it off (carefully). It's not an easy task.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 12:31 AM   #30
Motown65
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 313291
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default

I meant the outer race in the side plates. Here's a trick some guys my buddy knows did to get them out.


Also before you do the figure 8s is initial torque stupid high?
Motown65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 01:47 AM   #31
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

Buy a Harbor Freight bearing pulling/pushing kit - $60-100 and it'll be the only one you need that isn't a press.

What do you mean "is initial torque stupid high"?
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 11:53 AM   #32
Motown65
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 313291
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default Rebuilding the R180

So I get the rear diff in the car last night and go to do the lift right rear test and it's not breaking loose.

When I screwed the lsd back down the top spring plate just caught the case. It didn't seem like it was too tight or anything.

Also this is with no oil besides what I rubbed on the plates during assembly.

Last edited by Motown65; 11-09-2016 at 01:16 PM.
Motown65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 01:39 PM   #33
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

Did you measure the entire plate stack-up as described in the instructions? The stack-up will protrude above the case lip - screwing the end plate down will compress the stack.

How high does your torque wrench go? The break-free torque should be 80+ ft-lbs.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2016, 01:43 PM   #34
Motown65
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 313291
Join Date: Mar 2012
Default Rebuilding the R180

It wasn't breaking at 150 and I didn't technically measure the thickness of the stack just everything separately

I didn't know if it was going to be crazy high until you drove and broke it in.

Edit 1
-according to my measurements I had the very minimal amount of clearance (.06mm). I could not get it to break until after the 30min break in and then I could only barely move it with all my weight on it (130 lbs lol). I'm guessing it's around 200ft lbs Break away. This is with all 1.7 plates. Since the clearance is .06 to .24 mm I'm thinking I just filled the clearance and the case is holding it down as well as the spring plates. I'm going to rip the rear end back out and swap two 1.7 plates for two 1.6 plates hopefully making it identical to Mrsaturns.

Edit 2
-I believe I made the assumption that the plates were dead on there numbers when all 6 could be as much as .3mm over or under. This makes measuring the assembled stack without spring plates necessary.

Last edited by Motown65; 11-11-2016 at 02:52 PM.
Motown65 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 01:41 AM   #35
penderperson
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 172370
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Independence, KY
Vehicle:
2006 STI
Black

Default

Pm'd you.
penderperson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-14-2017, 02:07 PM   #36
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

Did you lubricate all plates/discs during assembly? You NEED to completely cover them in 90PA (or your desired rear diff. oil).

Also, from your PM:

Quote:
Here are my numbers: A=88.37 B=2.5 C=.5 D=65.7 E=1.5 F=86.37
E = 1.85 mm (always); this is the thickness of the bellevelle washers included in the kit (part no. 5). Because you used a value of 1.5, you over-compensated on the stack height causing extremely high break-away torque.

You didn't reuse the old 1.5 mm bellevelle spring did you?

If you have your ramp assembly height (mine was 65.99 mm), I can give you the proper thicknesses to use. Assuming the same ramp assembly height as me, you should have used 2x 1.6 mm discs and 1x 1.7 mm discs per side.

Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 03-14-2017 at 02:45 PM.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2017, 06:51 PM   #37
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

Based on your ramp assembly thickness (via PM) of 65.70 mm, the correct thickness selection is:

4 x 1.6 mm and 2 x 1.8 mm
-or-
2 x 1.6 mm and 4 x 1.7 mm (my preference)

You should definitely be using the new 1.85 mm bellevelle washers. The original discs/plates *might* be worn-out, but the original 1.5 mm bellevelle washer will DEFINITELY be worn-out.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2017, 11:47 PM   #38
Auval
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 350880
Join Date: Mar 2013
Vehicle:
2000 FORESTER S
Silver on black

Default

Given that the 60 degree ramps are discontinued and impossible to find, has anyone considered having a machine shop machine down the 45 degree ramps to make them out to 60 degrees?
Auval is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2019, 07:21 AM   #39
Alburg
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 469860
Join Date: Jun 2017
Default

sry posted in wrong thread
Alburg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 03:01 PM   #40
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Auval View Post
Given that the 60 degree ramps are discontinued and impossible to find, has anyone considered having a machine shop machine down the 45 degree ramps to make them out to 60 degrees?
You would want to make sure the shop was familiar with the heat treatment needed after the machine work; otherwise the ramps will not live very long.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-31-2019, 05:20 PM   #41
JarHarms
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 138994
Join Date: Jan 2007
Chapter/Region: MWSOC
Location: DeKalb-ish, IL
Vehicle:
2006 WRX, 6MT, 5x114
TMIC, FP blue, ELH

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrsaturn7085 View Post
...One thing that the 60 deg diff ramp kit modifies in the instructions (not shown) is the order of plates and disks. The OEM and rebuilt kit order places a friction disk directly against a ramp and has two friction plates against each other. This causes the diff ramp to wear, and you likely achieve a marginally lower initial torque as you are basically getting 3.5 points of frictional contact rather than the full 4 (per side)...
Any reason this FD/FP order change (from STI 65deg ramp instructions) would not work on the original 45deg ramps? Of course with proper thickness selections being made. Once I start tearing into the diff it might be more obvious.

[OEM] pressure ring | 1.7 FD_it | 1.6 FP_et | 1.7 FD_it | 1.6 FP_et | 1.6 FP_et | 1.5 SP_et | case

[rebuild kit] pressure ring | 1.7 FD_it | 1.6 FP_et | 1.7 FD_it | 1.6 FP_et | 1.6 FP_et | 1.85 SP_et | case

[60deg + rebuild kit] pressure ring | 1.6 FP_et | 1.7 FD_it | 1.7 FP_et | 1.7 FD_it | 1.7 FP_et | 1.85 SP_et | case


[add NISMO to OEM] pressure ring | 1.7 FD_it | 1.6 FP_et | 1.9 NISMO FD_it | 1.6 FP_et | 1.65 NISMO SD_it | 1.5 SP_et | case

[NISMO + rebuild kit] pressure ring | 1.7 FD_it | 1.6 FP_et | 1.9 NISMO FD_it | 1.6 FP_et | 1.65 NISMO SD_it | 1.85 SP_et | case



et = external tab
it = internal tab

Last edited by JarHarms; 06-09-2019 at 11:05 AM.
JarHarms is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2019, 04:17 PM   #42
mrsaturn7085
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 375462
Join Date: Dec 2013
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland, OR
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STI
WR Blue

Default

The 45 and 60 degree ramps are machined to the same thickness so you just take your measurements as usual and rebuild to spec. 60 deg ramps just make the diff. work faster since it has less ramp incline to fight against.
mrsaturn7085 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-22-2020, 12:14 AM   #43
2JZ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 291949
Join Date: Aug 2011
Default

I ordered the RacingDiffs STi R180 plate & disc set. According to RacingDiffs their plates & discs differ from the OEM ones in 3 ways. Firstly, there are no grooves on the plates. Secondly, the discs have holes cut into them. Lastly, the plates have a special molybdenum-ceramic coating which improves life while also offering greater lock. These plates offer typically offer 30% greater lock in their testing in different vehicles.

OEM discs & Plates


vs.

RacingDiffs




Thanks MrSaturn for this contribution, especially the comment regarding the issue of accelerated wear of belleville washers. I am in communication with RacingDiffs to have improved belleville washers made for the STi R180. They presently make improved belleville washers for BMW LSD's which are "extra hardened to 55 HRC for greater longevity and better performance."

Last edited by 2JZ; 05-23-2020 at 11:05 AM. Reason: 1
2JZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-26-2020, 04:25 PM   #44
2JZ
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 291949
Join Date: Aug 2011
Default

RacingDiffs is updating their kit now to include spring plates with made from stronger and harder material. They are suggesting 1.50mm thickness.

The RacingDiffs kit has no choice between friction plate thickness; you only have 2mm friction discs and 1.5mm friction plates. So during a rebuild you can't control for stack height. Is 1.50mm spring plates a safe choice then?



Here is an R180 explosion diagram with NISMO spring discs added in case its useful to anyone.

Last edited by 2JZ; 05-28-2020 at 10:09 AM.
2JZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-24-2020, 06:41 PM   #45
FUNGC
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 373156
Join Date: Nov 2013
Default

@2JZ - any updates on your RacingDiffs upgrade? I am considering purchasing them to refresh my rear diff.
FUNGC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-04-2020, 05:38 AM   #46
240ZL31
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 520719
Join Date: Dec 2020
Default

@mrsaturn7085 Thank you so much for this topic. I took me a while to understand everything in detail. I measured everything super precisely (depth micrometer) with high end tools. All measurements are averaged out of 4 individual measurements (case, ramps, disks/plates).

It turned out that the disks and plates are basically new with little to no wear.

I am now going to install an additional laser cut shim in order to increase preload. It will be installed between spring plate and fricition plate.

A= 88.315mm
B= 2.506mm
C= 0.716mm
Ramp assy= 65.96mm

F=86.571mm
Clearance with OE plates: 0.223mm --- almost no preload
Clearance after shimming: 0.123mm --- I guess around 90-100 ft/lbs preload, to be confirmed after installation


It is all doable and no rocket science with proper measuring tools. Get a PH3 screwdriver first, otherwise you are going to need a drill in order to remove the phillips bolts below the ring gear (ask me how I know). Bolts are standard M6x12, I replaced them by torx head bolts. In my opinion shimming is a good idea with this differential as there are a few unused sides of the friciton disks (just flip them around). With a shim in place, I doubt there will be a difference compared to all new plates.

Last edited by 240ZL31; 02-16-2021 at 11:43 AM.
240ZL31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:27 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.